Good bye Peyton Marshall

[clemonsonroots]

They should start a go fund me for nil money for the team

[knttiger]

I really think this conversation is a moot point...why?

"It's moo point" It's a cow's opinion.

[winonsports]

Can you provide a source?

If you were part of a collective, then you would already have a source.

You have been given information yet are diligent about ignoring it

You have shown that you are only interested in attacking the process, regardless of what the facts provide.

Literally nobody has provided the information I’ve. People just claim to know it but won’t say or they have sources that aren’t particularly helpful. You, again, have provided nothing useful in your post

It was useful for those who want to know.

It's probably not useful for someone like you who wants to remain obstinate

[Rantz]

Gates I dare you win 20 plus games and 10 conference games and be predicted to finish at the bottom of the conference this year and make the dance. You have to budget basement shop in the portal and high school recruiting, because we have one of the lowest NIL budgets in the country. There's a reason that Laurence Bowers resigned as director of the NIL for basketball. The football team continues to get money for the football team and the basketball team.......Oh well!!!

Gates please get the hell out of Boone Co.

Really curious about this. Can you detail what Mizzou's basketball NIL budget is compared to other Power 4 schools? Or maybe the just the SEC would do. If it is materially less than other schools, then that certainly changes my opinion of the incredibly underwhelming portal class and incoming Freshman class.

He has no idea what the NIL budget is for the hoops program… he’s banged this drum until there’s a hole in it. We signed a top 10 freshmen class last year, in addition to starters from Duke and Iowa. We didn’t do that with “one of the lowest NIL budgets in the country” We don’t have Arkansas, Kty, or NC money to throw around, but it isn’t chicken feed either - per people who are knowledgeable on the subject, we are middle of the pack in the sec

Can you provide a source?

Gabe has posted it multiple times on Power Mizzou- I’m not sharing the link because it’s privileged material. We have a good NIl- not top ten, but not “one of the lowest…”

It's privileged material? In what sense? I mean, if you provided a link that's behind a paywall, then subscribers would have to log in to view the article, and non-subscribers wouldn't be able to access it. If it's not behind a paywall, then it's free for anyone to view. So, I'm not sure what you're protecting by not providing a link. And you won't even share the number, either? Why not?

I have listened to Gabe D, and he has never given the number, verbally. In fact, he has said on multiple occasions that he doesn't know the number for football or basketball. The posts in the PM forums also suggest the number is not known. So, I'd be surprised if the figures are out there. In fact, there was an article published yesterday on CBS Sports or this morning listing a bunch of schools that have between $7-$10M in basketball NIL, and Mizzou wasn't mentioned. So, they either have less than that, or the number is not known.

I'll go ahead an provide the link for everyone's convenience and enjoyment.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... ial-chaos/

HeY Woofy!

There is still some uncertanty. Here is part of the article

There's another group of schools a rung below that. Don't cry for these guys, as they're still hitting at least a hearty $8 million if required. This includes (but is not exclusive to) Auburn, Connecticut, Florida, Houston, Kansas, Kansas State, Miami, Purdue, Tennessee, Texas, UCLA, USC, Villanova, Virginia and still a few more trying to get there in the coming week(s). In talking to sources at these schools, even if most aren't at $10 million, there are still a couple in this lot that told me they could get there if absolutely necessary. (So: just by asking the right one, two or three really rich boosters for even more money.)

Just because Missouri isn't on the list, doesn't mean they cant be. If you havent notice, Gates seems to work from silence most of the time.

You have a very reliable source, and knttiger says he knows the number, but for some reason we just can't crack the code. I'm not sure that Gates is any better at keeping the silence than Bill Self, Kelvin Sampson, Matt Painter, etc.

Let's just say they do have the resources. That makes his portal recruitment even more underwhelming. According to ESPN rankings, they have been able to get one Top 100 transfer, and he is ranked 90th. So, I'll repeat, if Gates has similar resources as the schools mentioned in the article, why is the portal class so underwhelming?

Let me be clear, I like Gates. He has room for improvement, but I do like him, overall. This year's team was as fun to watch as any since Mike Anderson's elite 8 run and the 30-5 Frank Haith team. My negativity is more around the guys who say they have very reliable sources but can't produce any relevant information, and the guy who says the number has been published, but he can't give it out due to some seemingly ethical concern.

One of two things is true. Either Mizzou's basketball NIL is significantly lagging behind many schools (which Gates needs to help increase), or this year's portal class and incoming Freshman class, to-date, are unimpressive due to the $7-$10M Gates has to distribute.

Gates has added what…4 players? He added a 4th year player who isn’t a top center. Didn’t pay a lot. Took a chance on him and a prized recruit who needed developed, vamped.

Took Norweather who got no NIL money and agreeded to be a practice player and if he gets in the game at all, it’s wash up time.

Took Porter who has the skill set as a stretch 4 without the risk of running off Pierce, because Pierce knows where he stands and wants to continue in his development. Porter is interesting. He has not been pushed hard following his godfather from team to team. Now he will be pushed to be better. Gates sees him as a project to get the best out of his skill set, like he did Kobe and Bates.

And then Mack. No threat to Ant, or TO because they knew we needed another 1 or 2 and a CG a 2 , is still needed. Gates also sees he can also get his shooting up a bit….his PAR score can be improved upon and Gates is the man to push him.

Mizzou has more returning players than any other team in the SEC. And we still have 3 of the 5 players from the prized recruits from last year with Rowe and Randell coming in.

Gates is on record as saying he wants continuity and not want to shop the portal every year for players.

I don’t think he’s going to go out and spend big money on players because he doesn’t want to take a chance on running off Boateng, TO or Burns. He wants to develop those guys and use his NIL to keep them at Mizzou. If he can, his chance of going far in the dance is greater.

Word from sports reporters in the wild was that Marshall was on the fence b4 we took Phillips and it’s looking like Allen may sign with Miami, his home town which would mean his portal jump was premeditated because of knowledge of CYs new job and not that he was unhappy hear. CY is the person who recruited Allen…But time will tell if that is truly fact.

So this may not be as much as Mizzou is broke …seems like Gates is taking a different approach to building his team.

It would do every one well to look at the teams spending big money on players from the portal and look at what they have lost. And many of the guys who have vamped from their current teams…many of those are players who have previously jumped. That high scoring guy who went into the portal this year from Memphis, is going to his 4th team in 4 years and has a $4M asking price.

Lots of MM players who do well at that level, jump into the portal looking to move up to a HM team and collect a pay day. Analysis have already crunched the numbers and discovered many of the MM players with a high PAR score , can’t maintain that score once they hit the HMs. In other words a lot of fools gold out there. Some coaches know the game.

These are my opinions.

Those are legit opinions.
If he wants continuity, why did he push a 4 star out for a guy who averaged 5pts/gm?

Allen - Nothing you can do

If hes going to leave nil money on the table, you can be assured it will be used elsewhere. It would be an odd move not to use what’s been allotted, if that’s what he’s doing.

If the best thing that can be said about porter is that he hasn’t been pushed, then that’s actually a bad sign. If he can’t get out of bed without a coach’s call, or can’t get to the weight room without being forced and won’t study the playbook without a test, then he can go elsewhere, as far as I’m concerned. Idk what else you would mean by he hasn’t been pushed.

Pierce will make or break this team. Highest ceiling guy on the roster. They need him to score 15 pts/gm, shoot 35% from 3 and 70+ from the line. Would be nice to grab 6 boards too

If you are speaking of Marshall, Gates didn't push him out. Some sports writers mentioned that Payton was already on the fence during the season and they also pointed to his well travel behavior during his high school years. The last high school year was a head scratcher because when he transferred to OTE he was being trained and prepped for Gates system and actually lost weight too play. Then he come to Mizzou and opt out....was a head scratcher.

His grand mother posted on X that Marshall didn't leave because of Phillips but she never explained why he decided to vamp! Speculation says Marshal left because he didn't like Gates getting Phillips and Burns was doing well and getting all the praise in open gym, and Marshall didnt want to compete for playing time. But speculation also says of the fact that parents as well as agents are in the ears of these kids to get a better NIL. I believe its the latter! Its no secret....Mizzou is not tops in NIL, but really aren't hurting in NIL money either. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Mitchell and Robinson are taking most of the NIL money Gates wants his kids, especially his top kids to stay at Mizzou. The other players including Boateng , TO and the others including Marshall came in $500.000 or less...(my hunch) So it only made sense that he would sell his talent to the highest bidder. I'm one who believes these kids need to stay put, dont be greedy, take what's offered by the current school if its fair, and be developed as much as can be by a good teacher and get the benefit when you're proven by the NBA, unless you are already in the top tier of college players who are already proven. But you see greed every place and some schools are buying.

What I mean about Porter being pushed is not what you have in mind. What is meant is he hasn't been challenged to be the best player he can be because of a few factors. 1) He's foamily, 2) He comes from a basketball family of players that is very close to the coach, and 3) Porter has natural, inherited talent. Porter wanted to come to Mizzou last year and was about to commit. Then the news of his brother and prison time. The family felt it would be better to play elsewhere because of the pressure from local reporters in Missouri, so he found himself under his god-father who really didn't put a challenge to his god-son. I think Gates will have a different approach.

[Rantz]

But I want to add....fans look at these portal highlight video of players and also go to players school websites to look at stats of incoming players. This only gives a small amount of truth about a player. We don't realize there are stats and analytics run on a player that really tell how much a player is valued in a teams performance. His scores in the needed categories are put into the stat lines and out comes his real worth on the floor with usage, PNR, BPRs other real performances. They are graded with a score. From this a coach decided if he wants a kid or not. I dont think all coaches go by this tho. So a lot is a (bleep) shoot. a lot of the MM kids who do well at that level...facts have shown, in a HM, they are better as a reserve and command reserve money....unless you where heads and shoulders above most at the MM level. Then you do, do well in a HM program, but the majority don't. This goes well for HM kids with less experience as well. I don't think Marshall will get what he wanted and may get around what Mizzou was offering. But I could b e wrong....and this is also my opinion.

[Rantz]

Gates I dare you win 20 plus games and 10 conference games and be predicted to finish at the bottom of the conference this year and make the dance. You have to budget basement shop in the portal and high school recruiting, because we have one of the lowest NIL budgets in the country. There's a reason that Laurence Bowers resigned as director of the NIL for basketball. The football team continues to get money for the football team and the basketball team.......Oh well!!!

Gates please get the hell out of Boone Co.

Really curious about this. Can you detail what Mizzou's basketball NIL budget is compared to other Power 4 schools? Or maybe the just the SEC would do. If it is materially less than other schools, then that certainly changes my opinion of the incredibly underwhelming portal class and incoming Freshman class.

He has no idea what the NIL budget is for the hoops program… he’s banged this drum until there’s a hole in it. We signed a top 10 freshmen class last year, in addition to starters from Duke and Iowa. We didn’t do that with “one of the lowest NIL budgets in the country” We don’t have Arkansas, Kty, or NC money to throw around, but it isn’t chicken feed either - per people who are knowledgeable on the subject, we are middle of the pack in the sec

Can you provide a source?

from what I know about Mizzou and NIL is that there are like three levels in the SEC. You have the top schools like Ark and that level.....then there is a second level, and then the lowest level. Well the first level is just over flowing with cash.....that's why Calipari took the job. Then there is the second level...not over flowing like the first, but very capable to spend. Then the lower level just has to be very carful. Mizzou has second level status.

Mizzou aint hurting, and as far as the BB is concerned, Gates uses a lot of his money to keep his good players....He's on record as saying continuity is needed, not a team that turns over every year. There is no team in the SEC thats bringing back more players than Mizzou Basketball. Can you imagined if Mark Mitchell went into the portal how much he would command? From what I understand Mitchell can get $2m if he entered. And Ant would command $1.2 SO Gates is paying his guys not to jump in the portal. Gates is also a very good steward of the purse as well. He has a certain type of player he wants, so he is carful. Big men at the 5 are the hardest, the fewest and the most expensive to get in the portal. You have to move quick and have your money ready to pounce. Gates is always late to get one.. And if you are wondering how I know this.....I have a very reliable source.

You’re not saying anything that requires a very reliable source. Gabe D talked about both Mitchell’s and ants values a couple days ago. Every coach wants to keep their best players, and everyone knows bigs are harder to get bc there are a lot more guys who are 6’2” than 6’10”. Everyone knows Arkansas has deep pockets. Everyone knows there are tiers for nil. Every single thing you’ve said is common sense or a Mizzou reporter has reported on it.

Have your source provide something to you that is valuable. It would be interesting to know about how much Mizzou has to spend on NIL and how much they have spent. It would be interesting to know why they spent a good amount of money on a guard who can’t shoot 3s nor 2s, and lost minutes yoy. It would be interesting to know if they’re targeting a guard who can shoot 40+ from 3 bc they desperately need it. Would they consider spending the rest for their nil one guy and go with 14? Please forward these questions to your very reliable source.

Woofy...sound like you are angry.

Woofy....this info isn't universal as you make it out to be.....otherwise some wouldn't be making the comments that's made. Schools aren't require to disclose their finances of the NIL...at least not at this point. As for the rest of your questions...why dont you tell us what you think about it?

No, not angry. However, it's important to point out when someone claims to have a very good source, and the information they forward from that source is either common sense or already widely reported. Sources, especially anonymous sources, provide undisclosed information, ie. NIL finances. Yours, apparently, is not close enough to know that info, which calls into question how very reliable it is, considering the portal is the only thing that currently matters in college basketball. I could have been your source for all the posts you have made in this thread so far.

I don't know what they see in Mack, unless they're really focusing on defense and free throw attempts. Ant, TO, and Mack (seemingly) will make it very difficult on opponents' backcourts. However, he can't shoot, at all. If he starts, I think that's not a great sign. The 2 should be a reliable shooter. Yes, they should target one of the few remaining sharp shooters in the portal. If that means they go with 14 guys, then that is an obvious move to make. Ultimately, at this point, I would move Ant off the ball and start TO at PG. Ant has become a reliable 3pt shooter, has a lethal elbow jumper, and can create his own shot. I want him to focus on that rather than worry about running the offense, and facilitating.

I disagree with your understanding here. For a source to be credible, his info has to be credible. A credible source is also tasked with giving widely know information. Credible sources are known for being credible and trustworthy...providing truthful up to date info. A credible source not only provides widely known info, but undisclosed info as well.

As far as Mack as a Tiger and your observations.....Mack last year was around a 47% shooter when open, he drops off when contested a bit at a 23%. Maybe Gates thinks he can develop him a bit and fix a few things? Mack is built like a tank and Gates may move him on ball and Ant as the combo
but we have to wait and see. Cronin was a defensive guy and Mack excelled at it, so as you pointed out, they can be hell. I think he will be ok. Also, what I know about Mack is he excelled in the high PNR...and slots...he's able to scorer off simple action is what I've been told. I saw him some last season form a far but not much.....I like what I saw...b line to the rim. But his simple action and how good he's at it will be a welcome at Missouri. And because of his simple action, he's a FT getter. Start TO? That's an option, but he also presents a set of faults as well...like decision making. Kid has to grow in his game and develop more. I like him. Speaking about Ant....he's a great player and I expect him to get better. Checkout Evanmiya.com. Last I checked, on top players in college BB, They have Anthony Robinson coming in at #10.....and Copper Flagg came in at #1 and Broome at #2.

Your description of sources makes zero sense to me. You don’t need a source to provide info that is already available.

If Cronin is defensive minded and Mack excels at it, then it’s curious that his PT dropped 25% from his Freshman year. And I would hope he can shoot when open. Hes a D1 guard after all. He shot 42% from 2 which is really bad. If they have other shooters on the floor then I’m fine with him, but if he’s supposed to be a threat from three, then they’re in trouble, sans a huge offseason improvement.
I am higher on TO than most. Not as a scorer but as someone who can pass people open, make good decisions and lock down defensively. Of course he needs to improve.
If you’re open to moving Ant off the ball, then that’s interesting. Most people think I’m crazy for suggesting that.

But that's the rub...information isn't always know to every one. Section b can be in the know...section c may not know at all, tho it's widely known in section b. Just like these boards...you and I had the info...but others didnt.

Its obvious Cronin saw fit to move him to a sixth man roll. In his 2nd year he was 6th in minutes and , second in usage. In Macks Freshman year he shot 38%. while he lost 6 minutes per game, he gained in FG %.

Ant in 2 pointers shot 48% and Mack shot 42%...both in their 2nd year.

Mack is great in single action and excelled in it. You need a bucket? Mack is a b line to the rim with simple PNR single action. Gates still wants a floor spacer so look for that. In high school Ant was more of a combo tho he played both... mostly a combo. I like TO a lot...kid has great upside and he plays fearless and has wiggle to his game.

I also suspect the incoming Freshman, Rowe will also get playing time. Tho he is skinny and needs to eat, he will likely be the fastest guard in the SEC. He's a pure point who can shoot the 3.

I'm told Gates may not use both of his 2 spots he has left, but will look for the floor spacer.

Looking at the two things bolded above and his tape, I think we should look at Mack as the new and possibly higher upside version of what Dre Gholston provided to previous Gates' teams.

And I'm good with that.

Finally...some one gets it! Not only Gholston, but a much better Perkins who played the same position. And speaking of Gholston....we don't realize how good he was for Mizzou. This was a MM kid who excelled at the HM level. We need to find more like him.

[Rantz]

Who knows how much money Gates has to spend on NIL? The thing is, his situation is different from all these teams spending big bucks on talent from the portal. Look who is doing it and what THEIR situation is. They lost most of their players either to transfer, graduation, or going pro. They HAD to spend money to get bodies, and it's been well documented that the price tag for good starter quality players is stupidly high and the quality of players in the portal is mediocre this year. Those other guys are spending because they have to, and crucially, they have the money to spend because they don't have a few top quality players already on the team that they have to keep happy. No matter how much money Mizzou has to spend, they have to keep two all-conference level players and some high potential youngsters. And that means paying them. If they have, say, 6 million, and have to pay Ant and Mitchell a couple million apiece to keep them, that doesn't leave much. I don't know what the actual figures are, but that's about what those two alone would demand and probably get in the portal. They may not be paying Boateng, Burns, Barrett, Pierce, and Crews all that much apiece, but it all adds up, too.

And, they have to be careful who they go after in the portal because they don't want to run those guys off. Whether or not Marshall was considering jumping for whatever reason before they got Phillips (and maybe that's WHY they got Phillips), the optics are that getting Phillips made his decision easy.

well said!

[Rantz]

I really think this conversation is a moot point...why?

"It's moo point" It's a cow's opinion.

[woofy25]

Can you provide a source?

If you were part of a collective, then you would already have a source.

You have been given information yet are diligent about ignoring it

You have shown that you are only interested in attacking the process, regardless of what the facts provide.

Literally nobody has provided the information I’ve. People just claim to know it but won’t say or they have sources that aren’t particularly helpful. You, again, have provided nothing useful in your post

It was useful for those who want to know.

It's probably not useful for someone like you who wants to remain obstinate

Long story short, you along with everyone else have no idea what Missouris nil budget is or how much they’ve spent on any one player. I think we all just need to admit that and stop pretending.

[winonsports]

Can you provide a source?

If you were part of a collective, then you would already have a source.

You have been given information yet are diligent about ignoring it

You have shown that you are only interested in attacking the process, regardless of what the facts provide.

Literally nobody has provided the information I’ve. People just claim to know it but won’t say or they have sources that aren’t particularly helpful. You, again, have provided nothing useful in your post

It was useful for those who want to know.

It's probably not useful for someone like you who wants to remain obstinate

Long story short, you along with everyone else have no idea what Missouris nil budget is or how much they’ve spent on any one player. I think we all just need to admit that and stop pretending.

due to the $7-$10M Gates has to distribute.

You are the only one pretending to know.

[woofy25]

Can you provide a source?

If you were part of a collective, then you would already have a source.

You have been given information yet are diligent about ignoring it

You have shown that you are only interested in attacking the process, regardless of what the facts provide.

Literally nobody has provided the information I’ve. People just claim to know it but won’t say or they have sources that aren’t particularly helpful. You, again, have provided nothing useful in your post

It was useful for those who want to know.

It's probably not useful for someone like you who wants to remain obstinate

Long story short, you along with everyone else have no idea what Missouris nil budget is or how much they’ve spent on any one player. I think we all just need to admit that and stop pretending.

due to the $7-$10M Gates has to distribute.

You are the only one pretending to know.

Taking that statement out of context and you know it. What’s the point?