GDT : Cardinals vs Rays (3/29) ~ 1:15pm CDT

[Shady]

THX CK

Oli's going to stick w/Winn at clean-up (0 RBI's---.111 .111 .222 .333) no matter how clueless it makes him look, the definition of insanity.

GO CARDS!

What’s the fascination here????? Is there some obscure analytics dictating WINN is a cleanup hitter the first 3 games against TB???
Oli is an idiot

I dont get the fascination with the cleanup spot in the order. Herrera is getting more opportunities than Winn. Winn hitting .111 Hererra hitting .127. The cleanup position lead off innings twice yesterday. Its like complaining about who hits 6th. The Cards dont have the prototype cleanup hitter of years past. Winn isn't, but neither is Hererra.

An issue is getting more fastballs for Burleson and less "pitch arounds".

[sikeston bulldog2]

You really want to pump a guy up and show reward for job well done? Move Walker to four. And say, enjoy son.

[Ozziesfan41]

THX CK

Oli's going to stick w/Winn at clean-up (0 RBI's---.111 .111 .222 .333) no matter how clueless it makes him look, the definition of insanity.

GO CARDS!

I agree Winn isn’t an ideal cleanup guy. You could swap him and Herrera but they are trying to stack the best bats at the top so they get the most AB’s. I will also say it is a little early to support an argument with just 2 games of stats.

I get the concept but teams that do that usually have legitimate cleanup hitters also. I doubt the dodgers would do that with ohtani if it left them with Miguel Rojas batting clean up what good is it to have more runners on base if there’s no one to drive them in

[ramfandan]

THX CK

Oli's going to stick w/Winn at clean-up (0 RBI's---.111 .111 .222 .333) no matter how clueless it makes him look, the definition of insanity.

GO CARDS!

Oli has 5 players to choose from for cleanup .

JJ leadoff, he wants Herrera , and Burly 2 & 3 as you want your best hitters to potentially get to the plates the most times so he won't mess with that trio .. then Scott is locked in at 9 only.
So today that leaves Saggese , Pages, Walker, Urias , and Winn as his choices for the 4th spot. Winn is no sure thing but Oli must feel that the other 4 aren't a better threat from that group.

I'd say K. Cash is a pretty sharp Manager, one of the best in MLB for a long time.

His best hitter, where has he been batting?

J. Caminero----clean-up.

Herrera in the #2 is a waste (and please, don't regurgitate that stupid theory about the best hitter batting 2nd, teams like the Angels have used this stupid move and wasted a great talent like M. Trout's career), he needs to be hitting clean-up.

Wasting Herrera's RBI potential (least we forget he's got J. Walker, P. Pages and VSII setting the table ahead of him along w/one good hitter in JJW) in the two hole to get a handful more PA's is stupid.

Regarding this above .. 'in the two hole to get a HANDFUL more PA's is stupid.
Put handful in caps as depends what your definition of 'handful ' is ..
MLB stats have shown that over 162 games , the leadoff batter will get 30-50 more plate appearances than the #3 or #4 hitter .
Here was breakdown : Leadoff 1st - 750 2nd-733 3rd 714 4th 698
The numbers above were 2023 MLB stats and showed the leadoff batter #1 batting 52 more times than the #4 batter . That's more than a handful IMIn fact, that translates to about one more plate appearance for the leadoff batter for every three games played. Yesterday, was one of those games as JJ Wetherholt had that 5th plate appearance (the only Cardinal to get up 5 times in the game ) and it proved to be the game winning at bat.
Good arguments can be made for a more powerful guy in 4th but the number of plate appearance differential is not a stupid consideration .

[scoutyjones2]

Again, Winn was 5th on the team, last year in RBI's. Nado and WillyCon are no longer here...

Untwist the panties, 2 games in

5th

I guess someone had to be 5th, doesn't make him a clean-up hitter in any managers lineup other than your pal Oli.

Again, 2 of the top 5 no longer on the team and it was better than Hurdy Gurdy

[Chitownredbird]

Wetherholt 2B
Herrera DH
Burleson 1B
Winn SS
Saggese LF
Urias 3B
Walker RF
Pages C
Scott CF

May SP

The Marmot yet again defies all logic and consistency.
He is willing to stack 5 RH bats in a row against a journeyman LF pitcher - and yet is terrified of stacking LH bats against any RH pitcher other than at 9 &1.
Very strange.
Even more oddly, of the 3 LH bats in the lineup, he has them spaced into just 4 of the assigned spots, thereby giving opposing LH pitchers a "breather' when working through the STL order.
Let's see what happens.

Looking for logic in his lineups is like looking for water in the desert especially on Second Team Sunday.

[renostl]

THX CK

Oli's going to stick w/Winn at clean-up (0 RBI's---.111 .111 .222 .333) no matter how clueless it makes him look, the definition of insanity.

GO CARDS!

What’s the fascination here????? Is there some obscure analytics dictating WINN is a cleanup hitter the first 3 games against TB???
Oli is an idiot

I dont get the fascination with the cleanup spot in the order. Herrera is getting more opportunities than Winn. Winn hitting .111 Hererra hitting .127. The cleanup position lead off innings twice yesterday. Its like complaining about who hits 6th. The Cards dont have the prototype cleanup hitter of years past. Winn isn't, but neither is Hererra.

Winn doesn't belong at #4 but he could with his speed. You don't have to have a lot of SLG there and Hejj the team doesn't have much unless NG or JW, you do need hit though and Winn has yet to show that in his career. JJW there is
currently better.

Line ups are no longer dead in the #9 spot which is why the #4 should no longer be treated as such. The #4 will lead
off fairly often. Players make outs 2/3 rds of the time. Any and every time the lineup wraps around they
will have JJW, IH, and AB up with guys on base. All of NC, VS2, and JJW are capable of putting themselves
in scoring positions, to me that sounds ideal. Someone actually on the roster will need to displace Winn
or he may stay there awhile. The exception is if Church can LO. IF he can the lineup gets deeper fast and the
R/L/R/L thingy will drop Winn.

This is also the why of TLR batting the pitcher #8.

[stlbirdlover]

Having Matz in the rotation I believe is a mistake. He was effective in his bullpen role and his was able to remain healthy. He was injury prone as a starter!

[renostl]

Again, Winn was 5th on the team, last year in RBI's. Nado and WillyCon are no longer here...

Untwist the panties, 2 games in

5th

I guess someone had to be 5th, doesn't make him a clean-up hitter in any managers lineup other than your pal Oli.

Again, 2 of the top 5 no longer on the team and it was better than Hurdy Gurdy

I'll have to agree with this roster situation.

JW needs to stay #6 or lower until he looks good for months, imo.
NG could go higher sooner but with the R/L that's #5.

Too much hand wringing over the #4 spot as of today and 15 runs in 2 games
would a better lineup produced more? Kind of goofy.

[cardinalsfever44]

Nice play Saggese!

[82birds]

good first for May

GREAT CATCH Saggese !

[82birds]

Burly robbed of a hit

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

Just sat down and saw that nice play by Ritchie.

[rockondlouie]

1-0 Rays

[rockondlouie]

Again, Winn was 5th on the team, last year in RBI's. Nado and WillyCon are no longer here...

Untwist the panties, 2 games in

5th

I guess someone had to be 5th, doesn't make him a clean-up hitter in any managers lineup other than your pal Oli.

Again, 2 of the top 5 no longer on the team and it was better than Hurdy Gurdy

51 (Winn) to 50 (Donny)

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

That was weird.