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In 2023, Burleson's BA was .244, his OBP was .300, his SLG was .390 his OPS was .691. In 2025, his BA was .290, his OBP was .343, his SLG was .459 and OPS was .801. This is what I consider a vast improvement.

My initial thought was Bugs Bunny.

Since Bugs Bunny is a FA, he won't be signing with the Cardinals so:

SS Masyn Winn
2B JJ Wetherholt
1B Alec Burleson
C Ivan Herrera
RF Jordan Walker
LF Lars Nootbaar
DH Nolan Gorman
3B Thomas Saggese
CF Victor Scott II

My struggle is between Noot and Gorman's spots in the lineup.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 08:54 am My preferred lineup:

1-Noot/LF
2-JJW/2B
3-Hererra/DH
4-Burly/1B
5-Norman/3B
6-Walker/RF
7-Winn/SS
8-Pages/C
9-VSII/CF

I don't like having Walker in the everyday lineup or Gorman at 3rd base but you have to play the "cards" you're dealt.

(And watch out for some screwy Oli lineups where he'll hit JJW 7th or 8th while leading off w/Winn )

Noot-not very good and will miss 1/3 of season
Gorman sucks
Walker sucks
Pages sucks
VS11 sucks
You have 5 guys who can’t hit or stay on the field. How is team supposed to score runs?

Shady wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:55 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:32 am

Shady wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:04 am For those listing Winn or VSII at lead-off, don't!

Winn career hitting lead-off = .280 OB%

VSII career + .283 OB%

Not what you want from your lead-off man.

If Nootbaar is out. Church could be in LF and at 1 or 2 in the lineup.

Oh H E L L NO!

Church in his 65 PA's had a .254 OB%

Sure it was a SSS but c'mon, that's not a guy you want hitting lead-off.

Both Church and Saggese have the potential to show vast improvement.

Or they could be who they appear to be, J.A.G.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:47 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:41 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:35 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:30 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:04 am For those listing Winn or VSII at lead-off, don't!

Winn career hitting lead-off = .280 OB%

VSII career + .283 OB%

Not what you want from your lead-off man.

It gets worse. I’m hitting them one-two.

YIKES BDog

I know. I’m looking at combining speed and better bat control to at least move runners.

I feel both will improve their game. JJ third. If he is the hitter they say, want his speed and ability in the three hole.

Scott can only go up, and Winn could further improve his game.

It gets worse. My only question is- who’s one.

As you well know BDog, you can't steal 1st base.

Winn has been a massive failure when leading-off and he's an awful base stealer, his best slot is in the bottom third.

VSII would be ideal w/his base stealing acumen and speed BUT only if he can get on base at a .325-.330 OB% clip.

Noot is the perfect lead-off man who works counts and gets on base at a .343 clip when leading-off.

I like JJW in the #2 hole where his batting skills and extra base hit power could do some damage.

You’re discounting my verbiage. I expect both to get mprove. Scott might get to your number. Then I need a great bat control hitter at two. Power and speed at three.

Noot is gone till who noots. My hope is to have one or two of my top two on when the power comes up.

Oh I saw it but that's "wish casting" they'll improve to that level until they actually do it, I have big doubts that neither will ever get to Noot's .343 career OB% when leading off.

And that's a quantum leap your taking there Sam for VSII to get to a .325-.330 OB%.

But it sure would be fun if he did although I'm not sure Oli is the right Manager to "turn him loose" since he seemed to anchor him to 1st base too many times last season when the kid did manage to get on base.

BTW, speed isn't what you want in the #3 hole BDog.

That's where you want your best hitter w/power who can drive in 90-100 runs (re: I. Hererra is the only hitter on the 2026 who fits the bill).

Goldfan wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 10:52 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 08:54 am My preferred lineup:

1-Noot/LF
2-JJW/2B
3-Hererra/DH
4-Burly/1B
5-Norman/3B
6-Walker/RF
7-Winn/SS
8-Pages/C
9-VSII/CF

I don't like having Walker in the everyday lineup or Gorman at 3rd base but you have to play the "cards" you're dealt.

(And watch out for some screwy Oli lineups where he'll hit JJW 7th or 8th while leading off w/Winn )

Noot-not very good and will miss 1/3 of season
Gorman sucks
Walker sucks
Pages sucks
VS11 sucks
You have 5 guys who can’t hit or stay on the field. How is team supposed to score runs?

Like I said GF:
"...you have to play the "cards" you're dealt".

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:15 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:47 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:41 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:35 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:30 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:04 am For those listing Winn or VSII at lead-off, don't!

Winn career hitting lead-off = .280 OB%

VSII career + .283 OB%

Not what you want from your lead-off man.

It gets worse. I’m hitting them one-two.

YIKES BDog

I know. I’m looking at combining speed and better bat control to at least move runners.

I feel both will improve their game. JJ third. If he is the hitter they say, want his speed and ability in the three hole.

Scott can only go up, and Winn could further improve his game.

It gets worse. My only question is- who’s one.

As you well know BDog, you can't steal 1st base.

Winn has been a massive failure when leading-off and he's an awful base stealer, his best slot is in the bottom third.

VSII would be ideal w/his base stealing acumen and speed BUT only if he can get on base at a .325-.330 OB% clip.

Noot is the perfect lead-off man who works counts and gets on base at a .343 clip when leading-off.

I like JJW in the #2 hole where his batting skills and extra base hit power could do some damage.

You’re discounting my verbiage. I expect both to get mprove. Scott might get to your number. Then I need a great bat control hitter at two. Power and speed at three.

Noot is gone till who noots. My hope is to have one or two of my top two on when the power comes up.

Oh I saw it but that's "wish casting" they'll improve to that level until they actually do it, I have big doubts that neither will ever get to Noot's .343 career OB% when leading off.

And that's a quantum leap your taking there Sam for VSII to get to a .325-.330 OB%.

But it sure would be fun if he did although I'm not sure Oli is the right Manager to "turn him loose" since he seemed to anchor him to 1st base too many times last season when the kid did manage to get on base.

BTW, speed isn't what you want in the #3 hole BDog.

That's where you want your best hitter w/power who can drive in 90-100 runs (re: I. Hererra is the only hitter on the 2026 who fits the bill).

I don’t mean stealers speed. I mean double and triple speed. We both agree on power aspect. Chances are, with two hitters in front of the three hole, one will be on.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:18 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:15 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:47 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:41 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:35 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:30 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:04 am For those listing Winn or VSII at lead-off, don't!

Winn career hitting lead-off = .280 OB%

VSII career + .283 OB%

Not what you want from your lead-off man.

It gets worse. I’m hitting them one-two.

YIKES BDog

I know. I’m looking at combining speed and better bat control to at least move runners.

I feel both will improve their game. JJ third. If he is the hitter they say, want his speed and ability in the three hole.

Scott can only go up, and Winn could further improve his game.

It gets worse. My only question is- who’s one.

As you well know BDog, you can't steal 1st base.

Winn has been a massive failure when leading-off and he's an awful base stealer, his best slot is in the bottom third.

VSII would be ideal w/his base stealing acumen and speed BUT only if he can get on base at a .325-.330 OB% clip.

Noot is the perfect lead-off man who works counts and gets on base at a .343 clip when leading-off.

I like JJW in the #2 hole where his batting skills and extra base hit power could do some damage.

You’re discounting my verbiage. I expect both to get mprove. Scott might get to your number. Then I need a great bat control hitter at two. Power and speed at three.

Noot is gone till who noots. My hope is to have one or two of my top two on when the power comes up.

Oh I saw it but that's "wish casting" they'll improve to that level until they actually do it, I have big doubts that neither will ever get to Noot's .343 career OB% when leading off.

And that's a quantum leap your taking there Sam for VSII to get to a .325-.330 OB%.

But it sure would be fun if he did although I'm not sure Oli is the right Manager to "turn him loose" since he seemed to anchor him to 1st base too many times last season when the kid did manage to get on base.

BTW, speed isn't what you want in the #3 hole BDog.

That's where you want your best hitter w/power who can drive in 90-100 runs (re: I. Hererra is the only hitter on the 2026 who fits the bill).

I don’t mean stealers speed. I mean double and triple speed. We both agree on power aspect. Chances are, with two hitters in front of the three hole, one will be on.

First, you don't really need speed from your #3 hole hitter to get doubles....re: ALBERT 686 career doubles

Second, triples are rare and #3 hole hitters not named "Musial" rarely hit triples

And that's why you want Noot and JJW hitting in front of Hererra & Bumbles, because they get on base (unlike Winn and VSII).

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:21 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:18 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:15 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:47 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:41 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:35 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:30 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:04 am For those listing Winn or VSII at lead-off, don't!

Winn career hitting lead-off = .280 OB%

VSII career + .283 OB%

Not what you want from your lead-off man.

It gets worse. I’m hitting them one-two.

YIKES BDog

I know. I’m looking at combining speed and better bat control to at least move runners.

I feel both will improve their game. JJ third. If he is the hitter they say, want his speed and ability in the three hole.

Scott can only go up, and Winn could further improve his game.

It gets worse. My only question is- who’s one.

As you well know BDog, you can't steal 1st base.

Winn has been a massive failure when leading-off and he's an awful base stealer, his best slot is in the bottom third.

VSII would be ideal w/his base stealing acumen and speed BUT only if he can get on base at a .325-.330 OB% clip.

Noot is the perfect lead-off man who works counts and gets on base at a .343 clip when leading-off.

I like JJW in the #2 hole where his batting skills and extra base hit power could do some damage.

You’re discounting my verbiage. I expect both to get mprove. Scott might get to your number. Then I need a great bat control hitter at two. Power and speed at three.

Noot is gone till who noots. My hope is to have one or two of my top two on when the power comes up.

Oh I saw it but that's "wish casting" they'll improve to that level until they actually do it, I have big doubts that neither will ever get to Noot's .343 career OB% when leading off.

And that's a quantum leap your taking there Sam for VSII to get to a .325-.330 OB%.

But it sure would be fun if he did although I'm not sure Oli is the right Manager to "turn him loose" since he seemed to anchor him to 1st base too many times last season when the kid did manage to get on base.

BTW, speed isn't what you want in the #3 hole BDog.

That's where you want your best hitter w/power who can drive in 90-100 runs (re: I. Hererra is the only hitter on the 2026 who fits the bill).

I don’t mean stealers speed. I mean double and triple speed. We both agree on power aspect. Chances are, with two hitters in front of the three hole, one will be on.

First, you don't really need speed from your #3 hole hitter to get doubles....re: ALBERT 686 career doubles

Second, triples are rare and #3 hole hitters not named "Musial" rarely hit triples

And that's why you want Noot and JJW hitting in front of Hererra & Bumbles, because they get on base (unlike Winn and VSII).

I bet a Coke one of these two will hit lead off; at least once.

Shady wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:55 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:32 am

Shady wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:04 am For those listing Winn or VSII at lead-off, don't!

Winn career hitting lead-off = .280 OB%

VSII career + .283 OB%

Not what you want from your lead-off man.

If Nootbaar is out. Church could be in LF and at 1 or 2 in the lineup.

Oh H E L L NO!

Church in his 65 PA's had a .254 OB%

Sure it was a SSS but c'mon, that's not a guy you want hitting lead-off.

Both Church and Saggese have the potential to show vast improvement.

33 players hit 30+ HRs last year. That's not potential, that's actual HRs in the real world. There are probably 150-300 MLB players who have Shady's version of "potential" to hit that many HRs if the stars aligned.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:23 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:21 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:18 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 11:15 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:47 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:41 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:35 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:30 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:04 am For those listing Winn or VSII at lead-off, don't!

Winn career hitting lead-off = .280 OB%

VSII career + .283 OB%

Not what you want from your lead-off man.

It gets worse. I’m hitting them one-two.

YIKES BDog

I know. I’m looking at combining speed and better bat control to at least move runners.

I feel both will improve their game. JJ third. If he is the hitter they say, want his speed and ability in the three hole.

Scott can only go up, and Winn could further improve his game.

It gets worse. My only question is- who’s one.

As you well know BDog, you can't steal 1st base.

Winn has been a massive failure when leading-off and he's an awful base stealer, his best slot is in the bottom third.

VSII would be ideal w/his base stealing acumen and speed BUT only if he can get on base at a .325-.330 OB% clip.

Noot is the perfect lead-off man who works counts and gets on base at a .343 clip when leading-off.

I like JJW in the #2 hole where his batting skills and extra base hit power could do some damage.

You’re discounting my verbiage. I expect both to get mprove. Scott might get to your number. Then I need a great bat control hitter at two. Power and speed at three.

Noot is gone till who noots. My hope is to have one or two of my top two on when the power comes up.

Oh I saw it but that's "wish casting" they'll improve to that level until they actually do it, I have big doubts that neither will ever get to Noot's .343 career OB% when leading off.

And that's a quantum leap your taking there Sam for VSII to get to a .325-.330 OB%.

But it sure would be fun if he did although I'm not sure Oli is the right Manager to "turn him loose" since he seemed to anchor him to 1st base too many times last season when the kid did manage to get on base.

BTW, speed isn't what you want in the #3 hole BDog.

That's where you want your best hitter w/power who can drive in 90-100 runs (re: I. Hererra is the only hitter on the 2026 who fits the bill).

I don’t mean stealers speed. I mean double and triple speed. We both agree on power aspect. Chances are, with two hitters in front of the three hole, one will be on.

First, you don't really need speed from your #3 hole hitter to get doubles....re: ALBERT 686 career doubles

Second, triples are rare and #3 hole hitters not named "Musial" rarely hit triples

And that's why you want Noot and JJW hitting in front of Hererra & Bumbles, because they get on base (unlike Winn and VSII).

I bet a Coke one of these two will hit lead off; at least once.

With Oli and knowing how he sets his lineup I'll pass BDog since all Winn has to do is ask and Oli will do it.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 12:13 pm

Shady wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:55 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:32 am

Shady wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 09:04 am For those listing Winn or VSII at lead-off, don't!

Winn career hitting lead-off = .280 OB%

VSII career + .283 OB%

Not what you want from your lead-off man.

If Nootbaar is out. Church could be in LF and at 1 or 2 in the lineup.

Oh H E L L NO!

Church in his 65 PA's had a .254 OB%

Sure it was a SSS but c'mon, that's not a guy you want hitting lead-off.

Both Church and Saggese have the potential to show vast improvement.

33 players hit 30+ HRs last year. That's not potential, that's actual HRs in the real world. There are probably 150-300 MLB players who have Shady's version of "potential" to hit that many HRs if the stars aligned.

Three or four years ago I was touting Burleson's potential when many doubted that. That worked out pretty darn good.

What I think they will do to start season
Scott CF
Herrera DH
Burly 1B
Gorman 3B
Walker RF
Church/Fermin LF
Pages C
JW 2B
MW SS

Bench
Crooks
Saggesse
Fermin
Noot I think starts season on IL

I’m going to assume Nootbaar is either unavailable for the first week of the season or he has been traded. This what I think Oli will send out there.

Vs RHP Vs LHP
1) Winn - SS
2) Wetherholt -2B
3) Herrera - C
4) Burleson - 1B
5) Saggese - DH
6) Gorman - 3B
7) Walker - RF
Torres - LF Fermin
9) Scott - CF

Voldemort wrote: ↑05 Feb 2026 10:47 am My initial thought was Bugs Bunny.

Since Bugs Bunny is a FA, he won't be signing with the Cardinals so:

SS Masyn Winn
2B JJ Wetherholt
1B Alec Burleson
C Ivan Herrera
RF Jordan Walker
LF Lars Nootbaar
DH Nolan Gorman
3B Thomas Saggese
CF Victor Scott II

My struggle is between Noot and Gorman's spots in the lineup.

I agree that Marmol will put Winn at leadoff.
My question is why? He has never shown to be a good leadoff man.

Scott has hit leadoff and has the tools to do so.
(I get he hasn't proven the OBP in The Show)
Wetherholt has hit leadoff.
(I get that he is a rookie.)
Torres has been a dang good leadoff man in the minors.
(I get may not even get a chance.)
Noot has had some success there.
(Will he be healthy to start the year?)

Seems like we have 4 other options.
All seem to have their question marks.

The said somewhere that Noot won't be ready for opening day.

I would think :

Scott- he's got the tools and speed.
Winn - Right handed and could basically be a second lead off guy
Burleson - Maybe the best hitter you have left and and left handed bat
Hererra - Right handed and the power to put fear into a pitcher (if he can stay on the field)
Gorman - Left handed and ever more power in the middle
Walker - Either here or the next slot depending on who they settle on for left field
Saggese - The only man left so far
Someone - TBD
Someone - TBD

Wetherholt - who hasn't faced a major league pitch yet could be wedged in before or after Gorman but I like the left right strategy so I'd put him in after Walker personally.