It's Fine To Collect Prospects, But You'd Better Have A Plan

[Melville]

My only disappointment with Bloom is that he left the coaches in place that have no record of successfully developing young players. It’s the definition of insanity. Change the players but keep the same coaches and manager. Hard for me to be optimistic.

Yea that’s my only disappointment in him so far if he extends him that will be insane

Brace yourself.

What do you think TB? I think Bloom gives him a real opportunity to grab the job. I generally have always been pretty ambivalent about most managers. We've had 2 guys here who made a difference. Most don't really. Especially in today's game. Bloom knows how he wants things done on game day. If Ollie executes he probably gets an extension.

I think Bloom seems quite pleased with Oli. If he wasn't, he had the best chance in the world to dump him when he took office.

Bloom can't possibly be that stupid.
The Marmot survived because DeWitt ordered Bloom not to fire him.

You aren't listening. You are allowing your own bias against Oli to cause you to ignore all of the messaging being given over and over by Bloom.

Bloom is parroting what DeWitt has trained him to repeat.
Bloom in an intelligent guy.
STL is in a development process, and The Marmot has shown himself to be utterly incompetent in handling young players at the MLB level.
His failure rate is astounding.
Bloom knows that.
The only rational explanation for The Marmot's survival is DeWitt not permitting Bloom to fire him.
Yet.

No, you said in another thread Bloom was stupid.

Nope.
Completely false on your part.
Regrettable.

[Melville]

What do you think TB? I think Bloom gives him a real opportunity to grab the job. I generally have always been pretty ambivalent about most managers. We've had 2 guys here who made a difference. Most don't really. Especially in today's game. Bloom knows how he wants things done on game day. If Ollie executes he probably gets an extension.

I think Bloom seems quite pleased with Oli. If he wasn't, he had the best chance in the world to dump him when he took office.

Bloom can't possibly be that stupid.
The Marmot survived because DeWitt ordered Bloom not to fire him.

You aren't listening. You are allowing your own bias against Oli to cause you to ignore all of the messaging being given over and over by Bloom.

Bloom is parroting what DeWitt has trained him to repeat.
Bloom in an intelligent guy.
STL is in a development process, and The Marmot has shown himself to be utterly incompetent in handling young players at the MLB level.
His failure rate is astounding.
Bloom knows that.
The only rational explanation for The Marmot's survival is DeWitt not permitting Bloom to fire him.
Yet.

It feels weird to be put in this role- I'm no Oli apologist- but this is nothing but a fabrication on your part. You are projecting your bias against the manager. As you say, Bloom is an intelligent guy- he also doesn't seem like he is full of (bleep). If he doesn't like, or support the manager he isn't going to go out of his way to say that he does.

I am, as you now, free of bias and free of agenda in all things.
My analysis follows facts and never deviates in the slightest.
Let's therefore consider "3 known knowns" (to borrow a famous term from Rumsfeld).
One, with all due respect, you are ignoring the way DeWitt and the Cardinals have operated for many years.
DeWitt is well known for extreme loyalty to "his guys" (The Marmot has been employed by the Cardinals for the last 20 years - essentially since childhood) and DeWiit has also always been reluctant to fire managers who are under contract for future seasons.
You are intelligent enough to know that - so I suspect you momentarily forgot to include DeWitt's well known behaviors into the calculation.
Two, it is extremely unusual for a POBO who is new in position to retain a failed manager and staff - a POBO is nearly always given a blank slate to pick his own leadership team.
Three, The Marmot abysmal record in developing young players at the MLB level is an established fact - no opinion involved in that statement.
Therefore, based on facts, only rational explanation for The Marmot's survival is DeWitt not permitting Bloom to fire him.
Yet.

Bloom has been talking extension - does BDW have a gun to his balls or something?

Anyone following the Cardinals over the years knows it is DeWitt who approves or rejects the firing of a manager.
Mo could not do it.
Neither can Bloom.
That is a fact.

lol - you still think this team is going to better than last year?

You are changing the subject.
Good choice.
So let me answer this question - again.
Before the Donovan deal - yes, the roster was better than a year ago.
Zero question.
But Bloom traded their best outfielder and their best insurance at 2b/ss/3b - severely weakening the overall depth and adding nothing for the 2026 season.
That's a significant problem and a strategic blunder.
Now, as I have stated multiple times, there is still more than 6 weeks to make other moves.
Let's see what happens.
Right now, the rotation is better, the infield is better, the BP is as good, and the team should be improved at the catcher spot - but the outfield which was already a disaster is now worse, and bench depth remains a question mark.

so you now agree we are going to suck? I can't keep up with your genius I guess

Perhaps so.
I would kindly and graciously suggest beginning with basic comprehension.
My post above might serve as a practice exercise in that regard.

[Melville]

My only disappointment with Bloom is that he left the coaches in place that have no record of successfully developing young players. It’s the definition of insanity. Change the players but keep the same coaches and manager. Hard for me to be optimistic.

If reports are to be believed, a lot of those guys didn't get the development that they were supposed to get in the minors because those coaches and instructors simply didn't exist.

Nonsense.
Most of these guys have been playing baseball for 10 years or more.

Professional baseball for 10 years or more? Well, no wonder why they suck. They've been playing pro ball for 10 years and never made it past Springfield or Peoria or Memphis.

Again, these guys have all played baseball for many years, and many levels, with many coaches.
Once they reach STL, the organization has concluded they are ready to complete their tutelage and succeed at the MLB level - because they have successfully passed the test at each stop along the way.
And yet, under The Marmot, too many simply fail to progress as expected in STL - particularly position players.
It is ludicrous to blame the coaches and instructors at level where they succeeded.

You literally paid no attention to anything I said. No surprise.

Go on, Melville, tell us how you got it all figured out. You and only you.

I believe I pointed that out already.
Allow me to repeat it.
Under The Marmot, too many simply fail to progress as expected in STL - particularly position players.
It is ludicrous to blame the coaches and instructors at level where they succeeded.
I believe many and most have figured that out.

[Melville]

My only disappointment with Bloom is that he left the coaches in place that have no record of successfully developing young players. It’s the definition of insanity. Change the players but keep the same coaches and manager. Hard for me to be optimistic.

If reports are to be believed, a lot of those guys didn't get the development that they were supposed to get in the minors because those coaches and instructors simply didn't exist.

Nonsense.
Most of these guys have been playing baseball for 10 years or more.

Professional baseball for 10 years or more? Well, no wonder why they suck. They've been playing pro ball for 10 years and never made it past Springfield or Peoria or Memphis.

Again, these guys have all played baseball for many years, and many levels, with many coaches.
Once they reach STL, the organization has concluded they are ready to complete their tutelage and succeed at the MLB level - because they have successfully passed the test at each stop along the way.
And yet, under The Marmot, too many simply fail to progress as expected in STL - particularly position players.
It is ludicrous to blame the coaches and instructors at level where they succeeded.

You literally paid no attention to anything I said. No surprise.

Go on, Melville, tell us how you got it all figured out. You and only you.

He still thinks Arenado was traded to Houston.

He was.
And refused to report.
Interesting that you would choose to mention Arenado since weeks in advance I predicted the precise time window in which he would be traded in 2024, and then months in advance correctly predicted the team to which he would be dealt.
The only person on the planet to get those specific details correct.
You can take that as assurance that I am fully correct on this matter as well - or you can simply rely on the data supported facts concerning how many prospects fail to deliver hoped for results.
That's what I do and I highly recommend it.

[Strummer Jones]

My only disappointment with Bloom is that he left the coaches in place that have no record of successfully developing young players. It’s the definition of insanity. Change the players but keep the same coaches and manager. Hard for me to be optimistic.

If reports are to be believed, a lot of those guys didn't get the development that they were supposed to get in the minors because those coaches and instructors simply didn't exist.

Nonsense.
Most of these guys have been playing baseball for 10 years or more.

Professional baseball for 10 years or more? Well, no wonder why they suck. They've been playing pro ball for 10 years and never made it past Springfield or Peoria or Memphis.

Again, these guys have all played baseball for many years, and many levels, with many coaches.
Once they reach STL, the organization has concluded they are ready to complete their tutelage and succeed at the MLB level - because they have successfully passed the test at each stop along the way.
And yet, under The Marmot, too many simply fail to progress as expected in STL - particularly position players.
It is ludicrous to blame the coaches and instructors at level where they succeeded.

You literally paid no attention to anything I said. No surprise.

Go on, Melville, tell us how you got it all figured out. You and only you.

I believe I pointed that out already.
Allow me to repeat it.
Under The Marmot, too many simply fail to progress as expected in STL - particularly position players.
It is ludicrous to blame the coaches and instructors at level where they succeeded.
I believe many and most have figured that out.

Ahhh Melville, you're like GI distress after Taco Bell. You never disappoint.

The. Instructors. Are. Important. They are the finishing school for these guys. They see the rough edges and polish them smoother... regardless of talent.

Instead, we get guys who--shocker!!--aren't ready. And they flip and flail. They're like kids who go to get their driver's license without getting a permit.

[Talkin' Baseball]

My only disappointment with Bloom is that he left the coaches in place that have no record of successfully developing young players. It’s the definition of insanity. Change the players but keep the same coaches and manager. Hard for me to be optimistic.

If reports are to be believed, a lot of those guys didn't get the development that they were supposed to get in the minors because those coaches and instructors simply didn't exist.

Nonsense.
Most of these guys have been playing baseball for 10 years or more.

Professional baseball for 10 years or more? Well, no wonder why they suck. They've been playing pro ball for 10 years and never made it past Springfield or Peoria or Memphis.

Again, these guys have all played baseball for many years, and many levels, with many coaches.
Once they reach STL, the organization has concluded they are ready to complete their tutelage and succeed at the MLB level - because they have successfully passed the test at each stop along the way.
And yet, under The Marmot, too many simply fail to progress as expected in STL - particularly position players.
It is ludicrous to blame the coaches and instructors at level where they succeeded.

You literally paid no attention to anything I said. No surprise.

Go on, Melville, tell us how you got it all figured out. You and only you.

I believe I pointed that out already.
Allow me to repeat it.
Under The Marmot, too many simply fail to progress as expected in STL - particularly position players.
It is ludicrous to blame the coaches and instructors at level where they succeeded.
I believe many and most have figured that out.

Ahhh Melville, you're like GI distress after Taco Bell. You never disappoint.

The. Instructors. Are. Important. They are the finishing school for these guys. They see the rough edges and polish them smoother... regardless of talent.

Instead, we get guys who--shocker!!--aren't ready. And they flip and flail. They're like kids who go to get their driver's license without getting a permit.

They're like college graduates in their first job after school- they are not ready to excel- they are ready to begin.

[Melville]

My only disappointment with Bloom is that he left the coaches in place that have no record of successfully developing young players. It’s the definition of insanity. Change the players but keep the same coaches and manager. Hard for me to be optimistic.

If reports are to be believed, a lot of those guys didn't get the development that they were supposed to get in the minors because those coaches and instructors simply didn't exist.

Nonsense.
Most of these guys have been playing baseball for 10 years or more.

Professional baseball for 10 years or more? Well, no wonder why they suck. They've been playing pro ball for 10 years and never made it past Springfield or Peoria or Memphis.

Again, these guys have all played baseball for many years, and many levels, with many coaches.
Once they reach STL, the organization has concluded they are ready to complete their tutelage and succeed at the MLB level - because they have successfully passed the test at each stop along the way.
And yet, under The Marmot, too many simply fail to progress as expected in STL - particularly position players.
It is ludicrous to blame the coaches and instructors at level where they succeeded.

You literally paid no attention to anything I said. No surprise.

Go on, Melville, tell us how you got it all figured out. You and only you.

I believe I pointed that out already.
Allow me to repeat it.
Under The Marmot, too many simply fail to progress as expected in STL - particularly position players.
It is ludicrous to blame the coaches and instructors at level where they succeeded.
I believe many and most have figured that out.

Ahhh Melville, you're like GI distress after Taco Bell. You never disappoint.

The. Instructors. Are. Important. They are the finishing school for these guys. They see the rough edges and polish them smoother... regardless of talent.

Instead, we get guys who--shocker!!--aren't ready. And they flip and flail. They're like kids who go to get their driver's license without getting a permit.

They're like college graduates in their first job after school- they are not ready to excel- they are ready to begin.

Excellent analogy.
They have arrived in STL after graduating from minor league college and are ready to begin.
And far too many - particularly position players - are then derailed by The Marmot and his staff.

[ecleme22]

I'm all for collecting prospects, but you'd better have a plan. Here is a list of 15 players who will have to be put on the roster at the end of the season, or they will be available for another team to take in the Rule 5 draft:

Blaze Jordan
Johnathan Mejia
Dakota Harris
Jesus Baez
Chase Davis
Travis Honeyman
Colton Ledbetter
Zack Levenson
Won Bin-Cho
Quinn Mathews
Pete Hansen
Ixan Henderson
Chen Wei-Lin
Luis Gastelum
Zach Showalter

It's pretty clear that a number of these will be safe, but there are also a number of these you wouldn't want to put out there. We won't have a bunch of contracts coming off the books, so if you want to protect 5-8 of these guys you're going to have to take 5-8 guys off the current roster. This doesn't even account for making roster spots for others during the year like JJW, Doyle, Baez, or others who aren't yet Rule 5 eligible.

Don't get backed into a corner at the end of the season. As the season goes along, proactively decide who you will want to end up on the roster. You may need to trade some of them rather than give them away later.

Rule 5 doesn’t happen until December.

[Hoosier59]

I'm all for collecting prospects, but you'd better have a plan. Here is a list of 15 players who will have to be put on the roster at the end of the season, or they will be available for another team to take in the Rule 5 draft:

Blaze Jordan
Johnathan Mejia
Dakota Harris
Jesus Baez
Chase Davis
Travis Honeyman
Colton Ledbetter
Zack Levenson
Won Bin-Cho
Quinn Mathews
Pete Hansen
Ixan Henderson
Chen Wei-Lin
Luis Gastelum
Zach Showalter

It's pretty clear that a number of these will be safe, but there are also a number of these you wouldn't want to put out there. We won't have a bunch of contracts coming off the books, so if you want to protect 5-8 of these guys you're going to have to take 5-8 guys off the current roster. This doesn't even account for making roster spots for others during the year like JJW, Doyle, Baez, or others who aren't yet Rule 5 eligible.

Don't get backed into a corner at the end of the season. As the season goes along, proactively decide who you will want to end up on the roster. You may need to trade some of them rather than give them away later.

The players in front of the fifteen you list are going to go through a 2026 MLB tryout. I expect a lot of tinkering with the 40-man and the 26-man rosters this year. I think we may also see some more platooning, just to give more guys playing time. And please, can we have some pure competition for starts and at bats? It should be fun if you're into that sort of thing, which I am. Are we going to identify several AAAA players? Yep. Are we going to find the next Brendan Donovan? Could be.....

I’m with you on this BFM. They obviously aren’t trying to win this year, so find out what some of these guys can do if given a decent chance. I believe two or three will surprise some people!
Winn, Herrera, Burleson, and I believe Saggese, should be in the lineup most every day, but everyone else should depend on how well they are playing. If Gorman, Walker, and Scott figure some things out, roll with them mostly too, but otherwise make them earn their at bats. Especially if say, Fermin, Torres, or Church are playing well.