I need a Melville assessment and grading of this years off season.

[JoshInFenton]

Good teams sell at the right times.

Bad teams wait until the sunset and destroy their returns.

I don't blame Bloom for this mind you. If the cardinals wanted the value that everyone here wanted them to get on NA and Contreras, wanted value at all on some other guys, maybe Mo shouldn't have been looking for ways to extend his shelf life for the last few seasons by being a comedic yes man.

Not thrilled with Donovan's value. Think the other trades are mostly fine, i don't care if DeWallet's lose a bit of money on some trades, we weren't competing this season anyways, so getting value for the future of the team greatly outweighs the costs. But time will tell on some of these, could look bad if nothing comes of any of the players, could look real smart too.

I guess the question now is we are probably a player or two short on the lineup side even if we bring in 1 or 2 young guys in a bit early. Wonder if we'll take on some reclamation projects that if they do well someone buys off us later. Gotta find ways to make value even after the big deals, which produced a lot of darts for the dart board.

[RamFan08NY]

I want it straight from the horse's mouth.
What does Mel think.
Because I think this was a disastrous off season.
I give Bloom a D- bordering on F.
Anyone could have done what he did.

I wouldn't say anybody. He's done what a corporate raider hatchet job expert would have done so far - cut the high salaries and replace with cheap ones.

What will set him apart will be if and how quickly his guys can become 4, 6, 8 WAR producers at the MLB level, as well as any follow on trades he spends all these prospects on, and whether he can bring in a manager and coaching staff that actually adds value and development to the MLB roster, like Tony and Dave Duncan did. If he's too patient, the young core we seem to have right now will begin to age out before we become competitive again - Libby, Winn, Burly, etc and then he has to make more trades and extend the process even further (or maybe his own window ends). There is a ticking clock here.

He got rid of the three best players we had.
He then paid other teams to take them.
Boston got a great deal.
I think the Mariners did too.
Hell, so did the Diamondbacks.
Arenado for $5.5M a year?
Those teams got a steal.

Yes they did. Bloom is going to have to figure out how to do those types of trades in reverse in the nearish future to reBUILD our roster cheaply with the AS level talent that our Farm still lacks.

Are you saying that Bloom traded away all-star caliber players?

Nobody is going to trade all-star caliber players for bums. His best shot at that would be to package JoJo, a young pitcher, ans a catcher.

[Melville]

D- on the Donovan trade - by trading for an odd fitting assortment of long shots rather than acquiring MLB ready talent, Bloom needlessly surrendered the season (barring any addition) for little more than a far off dream unlikely to ever come to fruition - Bloom will need a huge amount of dumb luck for this move to be a win.
Obviously, if Bloom was dead set in trading Donovan he should have put together a package which would have produced return to improve the team both short term and long term.
And, if he fails to add a quality RH bat before opening day, than non-move would merit an F.
Bottom line: too soon for a final grade.
Let's see what decisions are made between now and opening day.

What is odd fitting about these guys? A live arm with upside. And a boom or bust teenage outfielder?

What am I missing? You wanted to pieces to fit perfectly? I think it is pretty obvious he is stockpiling the system. Some will make it. Some will be traded. Some won't make it.

At least there is direction.

We are in a new era of roster management and talent acquistion of Cardinals baseball. It's a place we really have not been before. It is going to take sometime to get use to. But, this feels a lot like the Brewers to me. And having lived in Wisconsin the last decade, I've had a firsthand look.

As I have explained, odd-fitting because all Bloom accomplished was to acquire more of what he already had and added nothing to improve short term or long term.
5 long shots are 5 long shots.
Bloom already had that.

but as previously pointed out --- none of these guys will have an impact likely this year or next so does it matter if they are repetitive in the system? That is why you stockpile talent so you can trade from any surplus that presents itself. We need to wait and see if Bloom and his talent advisors have correctly identified players who will/might become major leaguers.

It matters because Bloom could have and should have secured pieces for both short term and long term purposes and instead completely punted.
Not his best work.

[greyhawk]

D- on the Donovan trade - by trading for an odd fitting assortment of long shots rather than acquiring MLB ready talent, Bloom needlessly surrendered the season (barring any addition) for little more than a far off dream unlikely to ever come to fruition - Bloom will need a huge amount of dumb luck for this move to be a win.
Obviously, if Bloom was dead set in trading Donovan he should have put together a package which would have produced return to improve the team both short term and long term.
And, if he fails to add a quality RH bat before opening day, than non-move would merit an F.
Bottom line: too soon for a final grade.
Let's see what decisions are made between now and opening day.

What is odd fitting about these guys? A live arm with upside. And a boom or bust teenage outfielder?

What am I missing? You wanted to pieces to fit perfectly? I think it is pretty obvious he is stockpiling the system. Some will make it. Some will be traded. Some won't make it.

At least there is direction.

We are in a new era of roster management and talent acquistion of Cardinals baseball. It's a place we really have not been before. It is going to take sometime to get use to. But, this feels a lot like the Brewers to me. And having lived in Wisconsin the last decade, I've had a firsthand look.

As I have explained, odd-fitting because all Bloom accomplished was to acquire more of what he already had and added nothing to improve short term or long term.
5 long shots are 5 long shots.
Bloom already had that.

but as previously pointed out --- none of these guys will have an impact likely this year or next so does it matter if they are repetitive in the system? That is why you stockpile talent so you can trade from any surplus that presents itself. We need to wait and see if Bloom and his talent advisors have correctly identified players who will/might become major leaguers.

It matters because Bloom could have and should have secured pieces for both short term and long term purposes and instead completely punted.
Not his best work.

How good of a short term player could he have really gotten? and if he did just how good of a player do you think they would have been? Donovan while a good player is not a difference maker, he will be a really good player on a team that already has established stars. I think he/Bloom still signs a right handed hitting outfielder on a short contract which was maybe what you might have wanted in a return for Donovan? This year we will learn once and for all about Walker and Gorman, i don't believe he wanted anyone that could muddy their playing time at all this season --- right or wrong.

[TraveledLessRoad]

I'll hop in here as a Melville proxy until he shows up. Generally-

Liked the deals for Arenado and Sonny
Didn't love the deal, nor the return for Contreras, but understood it and can live with it
Didn't like what we got for Donovan at all. Thinks the players we received were redundant to what we already have (the two position players at least). Doesn't seem to be too excited about the X-Man pitcher we got either. Undersized, not a great Milb track record. Essentially thought Chaim went quantity over quality and is pretty much just blindly throwing darts at the board hoping to get lucky with a bullseye.

Easy
Obviously
Correctly interpreted

Very nicely done!
But be careful.
Some here will believe I wrote those words.

I made sure I did a proper "proxy" intro. Should have caveated: "These interpretations are mine and mine alone." Not a bad summarization though, right?

[Melville]

D- on the Donovan trade - by trading for an odd fitting assortment of long shots rather than acquiring MLB ready talent, Bloom needlessly surrendered the season (barring any addition) for little more than a far off dream unlikely to ever come to fruition - Bloom will need a huge amount of dumb luck for this move to be a win.
Obviously, if Bloom was dead set in trading Donovan he should have put together a package which would have produced return to improve the team both short term and long term.
And, if he fails to add a quality RH bat before opening day, than non-move would merit an F.
Bottom line: too soon for a final grade.
Let's see what decisions are made between now and opening day.

What is odd fitting about these guys? A live arm with upside. And a boom or bust teenage outfielder?

What am I missing? You wanted to pieces to fit perfectly? I think it is pretty obvious he is stockpiling the system. Some will make it. Some will be traded. Some won't make it.

At least there is direction.

We are in a new era of roster management and talent acquistion of Cardinals baseball. It's a place we really have not been before. It is going to take sometime to get use to. But, this feels a lot like the Brewers to me. And having lived in Wisconsin the last decade, I've had a firsthand look.

As I have explained, odd-fitting because all Bloom accomplished was to acquire more of what he already had and added nothing to improve short term or long term.
5 long shots are 5 long shots.
Bloom already had that.

but as previously pointed out --- none of these guys will have an impact likely this year or next so does it matter if they are repetitive in the system? That is why you stockpile talent so you can trade from any surplus that presents itself. We need to wait and see if Bloom and his talent advisors have correctly identified players who will/might become major leaguers.

It matters because Bloom could have and should have secured pieces for both short term and long term purposes and instead completely punted.
Not his best work.

How good of a short term player could he have really gotten? and if he did just how good of a player do you think they would have been? Donovan while a good player is not a difference maker, he will be a really good player on a team that already has established stars. I think he/Bloom still signs a right handed hitting outfielder on a short contract which was maybe what you might have wanted in a return for Donovan? This year we will learn once and for all about Walker and Gorman, i don't believe he wanted anyone that could muddy their playing time at all this season --- right or wrong.

Two final quick points.
After which I shall agree to disagree.
One, as I have been saying for months, if Bloom was determined to trade Donovan, it should have been part of a bigger package (Romero, Hence, Moootbaar, etc.) to ensure a worthwhile return.
He needlessly settled for one dimensional, one objective, thinking.
Two, even with the incorrect course that he took, at a minimum it would not have been too much for him to ensure that he acquired at least one piece to address areas in which the org is thin.
Really, a double miscalculation on his part - and completley avoidable.

[TraveledLessRoad]

D- on the Donovan trade - by trading for an odd fitting assortment of long shots rather than acquiring MLB ready talent, Bloom needlessly surrendered the season (barring any addition) for little more than a far off dream unlikely to ever come to fruition - Bloom will need a huge amount of dumb luck for this move to be a win.
Obviously, if Bloom was dead set in trading Donovan he should have put together a package which would have produced return to improve the team both short term and long term.
And, if he fails to add a quality RH bat before opening day, than non-move would merit an F.
Bottom line: too soon for a final grade.
Let's see what decisions are made between now and opening day.

What is odd fitting about these guys? A live arm with upside. And a boom or bust teenage outfielder?

What am I missing? You wanted to pieces to fit perfectly? I think it is pretty obvious he is stockpiling the system. Some will make it. Some will be traded. Some won't make it.

At least there is direction.

We are in a new era of roster management and talent acquistion of Cardinals baseball. It's a place we really have not been before. It is going to take sometime to get use to. But, this feels a lot like the Brewers to me. And having lived in Wisconsin the last decade, I've had a firsthand look.

As I have explained, odd-fitting because all Bloom accomplished was to acquire more of what he already had and added nothing to improve short term or long term.
5 long shots are 5 long shots.
Bloom already had that.

but as previously pointed out --- none of these guys will have an impact likely this year or next so does it matter if they are repetitive in the system? That is why you stockpile talent so you can trade from any surplus that presents itself. We need to wait and see if Bloom and his talent advisors have correctly identified players who will/might become major leaguers.

It matters because Bloom could have and should have secured pieces for both short term and long term purposes and instead completely punted.
Not his best work.

I'm jumping back in late here...and i'll fully admit I haven't read this entire thread. But, I guess my question for those who know a lot more than me, would be; is there any world where JC becomes a #1 type Starter? That type of ceiling always has low odds, but is that even something to hope on?

[Melville]

I'll hop in here as a Melville proxy until he shows up. Generally-

Liked the deals for Arenado and Sonny
Didn't love the deal, nor the return for Contreras, but understood it and can live with it
Didn't like what we got for Donovan at all. Thinks the players we received were redundant to what we already have (the two position players at least). Doesn't seem to be too excited about the X-Man pitcher we got either. Undersized, not a great Milb track record. Essentially thought Chaim went quantity over quality and is pretty much just blindly throwing darts at the board hoping to get lucky with a bullseye.

Easy
Obviously
Correctly interpreted

Very nicely done!
But be careful.
Some here will believe I wrote those words.

I made sure I did a proper "proxy" intro. Should have caveated: "These interpretations are mine and mine alone." Not a bad summarization though, right?

Sublime, in fact.
(About 1/3 of the readers of this exchange are none the less convinced it flows from a single keyboard.)

[TraveledLessRoad]

I'll hop in here as a Melville proxy until he shows up. Generally-

Liked the deals for Arenado and Sonny
Didn't love the deal, nor the return for Contreras, but understood it and can live with it
Didn't like what we got for Donovan at all. Thinks the players we received were redundant to what we already have (the two position players at least). Doesn't seem to be too excited about the X-Man pitcher we got either. Undersized, not a great Milb track record. Essentially thought Chaim went quantity over quality and is pretty much just blindly throwing darts at the board hoping to get lucky with a bullseye.

Easy
Obviously
Correctly interpreted

Very nicely done!
But be careful.
Some here will believe I wrote those words.

I made sure I did a proper "proxy" intro. Should have caveated: "These interpretations are mine and mine alone." Not a bad summarization though, right?

Sublime, in fact.
(About 1/3 of the readers of this exchange are none the less convinced it flows from a single keyboard.)

We're about to get hit with a "Melville is TLR" bullet, aren't we? Luckily, I've been on here since like 2002 in one capacity or another.

[greyhawk]

D- on the Donovan trade - by trading for an odd fitting assortment of long shots rather than acquiring MLB ready talent, Bloom needlessly surrendered the season (barring any addition) for little more than a far off dream unlikely to ever come to fruition - Bloom will need a huge amount of dumb luck for this move to be a win.
Obviously, if Bloom was dead set in trading Donovan he should have put together a package which would have produced return to improve the team both short term and long term.
And, if he fails to add a quality RH bat before opening day, than non-move would merit an F.
Bottom line: too soon for a final grade.
Let's see what decisions are made between now and opening day.

What is odd fitting about these guys? A live arm with upside. And a boom or bust teenage outfielder?

What am I missing? You wanted to pieces to fit perfectly? I think it is pretty obvious he is stockpiling the system. Some will make it. Some will be traded. Some won't make it.

At least there is direction.

We are in a new era of roster management and talent acquistion of Cardinals baseball. It's a place we really have not been before. It is going to take sometime to get use to. But, this feels a lot like the Brewers to me. And having lived in Wisconsin the last decade, I've had a firsthand look.

As I have explained, odd-fitting because all Bloom accomplished was to acquire more of what he already had and added nothing to improve short term or long term.
5 long shots are 5 long shots.
Bloom already had that.

but as previously pointed out --- none of these guys will have an impact likely this year or next so does it matter if they are repetitive in the system? That is why you stockpile talent so you can trade from any surplus that presents itself. We need to wait and see if Bloom and his talent advisors have correctly identified players who will/might become major leaguers.

It matters because Bloom could have and should have secured pieces for both short term and long term purposes and instead completely punted.
Not his best work.

How good of a short term player could he have really gotten? and if he did just how good of a player do you think they would have been? Donovan while a good player is not a difference maker, he will be a really good player on a team that already has established stars. I think he/Bloom still signs a right handed hitting outfielder on a short contract which was maybe what you might have wanted in a return for Donovan? This year we will learn once and for all about Walker and Gorman, i don't believe he wanted anyone that could muddy their playing time at all this season --- right or wrong.

Two final quick points.
After which I shall agree to disagree.
One, as I have been saying for months, if Bloom was determined to trade Donovan, it should have been part of a bigger package (Romero, Hence, Moootbaar, etc.) to ensure a worthwhile return.
He needlessly settled for one dimensional, one objective, thinking.
Two, even with the incorrect course that he took, at a minimum it would not have been too much for him to ensure that he acquired at least one piece to address areas in which the org is thin.
Really, a double miscalculation on his part - and completley avoidable.

we will agree to disagree -- while i agree packaging other players may have helped, the other team must value you them as well. I don't think mootbaar or hence have much value right now. I will choose to wait and see what Bloom is planning. romero certainly does have value but we have no idea what value the mariners put on him.

[hugeCardfan]

lol - ME-ville thinks the team is better than last year - that girl ain't right!

I would not be at all surprised if they finish with a better record.

Addition by subtraction.

EDIT- I also wouldn't be surprised if they lose 100 games. lol

currently, we are much much worse than last season

Only if we had no long range plan.

[Rojo Johnson]

lol - ME-ville thinks the team is better than last year - that girl ain't right!

I would not be at all surprised if they finish with a better record.

Addition by subtraction.

EDIT- I also wouldn't be surprised if they lose 100 games. lol

currently, we are much much worse than last season

We are rid of Moe. It’s impossible to be worse than last season.

[renostl]

D- on the Donovan trade - by trading for an odd fitting assortment of long shots rather than acquiring MLB ready talent, Bloom needlessly surrendered the season (barring any addition) for little more than a far off dream unlikely to ever come to fruition - Bloom will need a huge amount of dumb luck for this move to be a win.
Obviously, if Bloom was dead set in trading Donovan he should have put together a package which would have produced return to improve the team both short term and long term.
And, if he fails to add a quality RH bat before opening day, than non-move would merit an F.
Bottom line: too soon for a final grade.
Let's see what decisions are made between now and opening day.

What is odd fitting about these guys? A live arm with upside. And a boom or bust teenage outfielder?

What am I missing? You wanted to pieces to fit perfectly? I think it is pretty obvious he is stockpiling the system. Some will make it. Some will be traded. Some won't make it.

At least there is direction.

We are in a new era of roster management and talent acquistion of Cardinals baseball. It's a place we really have not been before. It is going to take sometime to get use to. But, this feels a lot like the Brewers to me. And having lived in Wisconsin the last decade, I've had a firsthand look.

As I have explained, odd-fitting because all Bloom accomplished was to acquire more of what he already had and added nothing to improve short term or long term.
5 long shots are 5 long shots.
Bloom already had that.

but as previously pointed out --- none of these guys will have an impact likely this year or next so does it matter if they are repetitive in the system? That is why you stockpile talent so you can trade from any surplus that presents itself. We need to wait and see if Bloom and his talent advisors have correctly identified players who will/might become major leaguers.

It matters because Bloom could have and should have secured pieces for both short term and long term purposes and instead completely punted.
Not his best work.

At first looks it's not the favorite of the trades
But there are 2 more players still to come. This one will take a while to assess completely.

Bloom fully acknowledges short term needs. He'd have to be in a different reality not to. There's more than one way to achieve a goal.

[Spock]

I assume you “néed” diarrhea as well.

Love this post