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Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 11:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:48 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

No, it's not a platoon.

JJW is going to be F-T at 2nd Base, once NADO is dealt Gorman F-T (until he losses it) at 3rd Base.

Saggese is J.A.G., not even close to being the hitter Donny is.

Former Texas League MVP (2023) Saggese
Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 45

MLB Super Utility Player Donovan
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 45 | Run: 45 | Arm: 45 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

It’s a lot closer than you think.

Saggese’s plate discipline and bat to ball skills are nowhere near Donovan’s.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:44 pm

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 11:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:48 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

No, it's not a platoon.

JJW is going to be F-T at 2nd Base, once NADO is dealt Gorman F-T (until he losses it) at 3rd Base.

Saggese is J.A.G., not even close to being the hitter Donny is.

Former Texas League MVP (2023) Saggese
Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 45

MLB Super Utility Player Donovan
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 45 | Run: 45 | Arm: 45 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

It’s a lot closer than you think.

Saggese’s plate discipline and bat to ball skills are nowhere near Donovan’s.

And I’m sure Donovan’s Power, Base Running, Glove, & Arm aren’t close to Saggesse. Who cares? Donovan is a positionless bench player who can get on base but not score nor drive in runs

Saggesse made it to the majors by the age of 22, vs Donovan at the age of 25. We don’t know what he is. What we do know is that he was a higher rated prospect than Brendan ever was

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:04 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:44 pm

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 11:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:48 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

No, it's not a platoon.

JJW is going to be F-T at 2nd Base, once NADO is dealt Gorman F-T (until he losses it) at 3rd Base.

Saggese is J.A.G., not even close to being the hitter Donny is.

Former Texas League MVP (2023) Saggese
Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 45

MLB Super Utility Player Donovan
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 45 | Run: 45 | Arm: 45 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

It’s a lot closer than you think.

Saggese’s plate discipline and bat to ball skills are nowhere near Donovan’s.

And I’m sure Donovan’s Power, Base Running, Glove, & Arm aren’t close to Saggesse. Who cares? Donovan is a positionless bench player who can get on base but not score nor drive in runs

Saggesse made it to the majors by the age of 22, vs Donovan at the age of 25. We don’t know what he is. What we do know is that he was a higher rated prospect than Brendan ever was

Saggese is still young and would benefit from more time at AAA working on his plate discipline. Fermin should be on the big league roster as the super utility guy, particularly if they’re at all bullish on Saggese longer term. Every day playing time would be good for him.

We get it Rock, you don’t like Saggese, give the poor horse a break, it’s dead already!

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:29 pm We get it Rock, you don’t like Saggese, give the poor horse a break, it’s dead already!

Just answering post made to me hoosier, sorry I can't get on board w/some who think Saggese is some budding star ( ).

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:46 pm

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:29 pm We get it Rock, you don’t like Saggese, give the poor horse a break, it’s dead already!

Just answering post made to me hoosier, sorry I can't get on board w/some who think Saggese is some budding star ( ).

Can only speak for myself. I don't know what he will end up as. But I think it too early to write him off as a JAG. He might become an everyday player. Or not. Can you expand on what process you used to determine he is never going to be anything but a JAG?

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:39 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:30 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 06:49 am I’ve seen enough of Gorman. I have not given up on Saggese.

Yep. Let Saggese have some runway.

But why Saggese over Fermin?

Fermin in 126 games at Memphis:
.305 AVG, .426 OBP, 146 wRC+ with 15 HR, 36 doubles, 38 SB, and a sterling 79:47 strikeout to walk ratio

That's what EARNING an opportunity looks like.

I’m happy with Fermin getting his chance. I just don’t want Arenado and Gorman blocking opportunity. I’m done with both. They may be superstars on another team but have not performed in the Cardinals uniform. And while I’m preaching throw Walker in that group also although I’m ok with him starting in minors.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:15 pm

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:04 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:44 pm

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 11:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:48 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

No, it's not a platoon.

JJW is going to be F-T at 2nd Base, once NADO is dealt Gorman F-T (until he losses it) at 3rd Base.

Saggese is J.A.G., not even close to being the hitter Donny is.

Former Texas League MVP (2023) Saggese
Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 45

MLB Super Utility Player Donovan
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 45 | Run: 45 | Arm: 45 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

It’s a lot closer than you think.

Saggese’s plate discipline and bat to ball skills are nowhere near Donovan’s.

And I’m sure Donovan’s Power, Base Running, Glove, & Arm aren’t close to Saggesse. Who cares? Donovan is a positionless bench player who can get on base but not score nor drive in runs

Saggesse made it to the majors by the age of 22, vs Donovan at the age of 25. We don’t know what he is. What we do know is that he was a higher rated prospect than Brendan ever was

Saggese is still young and would benefit from more time at AAA working on his plate discipline. Fermin should be on the big league roster as the super utility guy, particularly if they’re at all bullish on Saggese longer term. Every day playing time would be good for him.

I agree.

Jatalk wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 15:11 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:39 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:30 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 06:49 am I’ve seen enough of Gorman. I have not given up on Saggese.

Yep. Let Saggese have some runway.

But why Saggese over Fermin?

Fermin in 126 games at Memphis:
.305 AVG, .426 OBP, 146 wRC+ with 15 HR, 36 doubles, 38 SB, and a sterling 79:47 strikeout to walk ratio

That's what EARNING an opportunity looks like.

I’m happy with Fermin getting his chance. I just don’t want Arenado and Gorman blocking opportunity. I’m done with both. They may be superstars on another team but have not performed in the Cardinals uniform. And while I’m preaching throw Walker in that group also although I’m ok with him starting in minors.

I say let whoever is here contends for playing time. I HOPE Arenado is gone as he is no longer worth his contract and to emerge at the end of this rebuild we will be better off with a guy other than him at 3B.

We have a lot of infielders and let them fight for time. I am assuming Donovan is gone in this ranking. The only position I'm willing to say is nailed down is obvious. SS is Winn. Otherwise:

1B - Burleson, Herrera
2B - Weatherholt, Fermin/Saggese (no order)
3B - Gorman, Saggese, Fermin

And it might end up Weatherholdt at 3B and one of the others at 2B.

Who knows. But as a real rebuild this year no Arenado I hope. Find the next 3B and 2B this year.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

What are you basing that on? Can’t be slugging percentage. Are you going off home runs? Saggese had twice as many at bats at AAA. Just curious to what you are looking at.

Saggese and Fermin would be most valuable in utility roles. JJ can play either 3B or 2B since Winn is our SS. Hope Donovan stays as our 2B.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:44 pm

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 11:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:48 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

No, it's not a platoon.

JJW is going to be F-T at 2nd Base, once NADO is dealt Gorman F-T (until he losses it) at 3rd Base.

Saggese is J.A.G., not even close to being the hitter Donny is.

Former Texas League MVP (2023) Saggese
Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 45

MLB Super Utility Player Donovan
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 45 | Run: 45 | Arm: 45 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

It’s a lot closer than you think.

Saggese’s plate discipline and bat to ball skills are nowhere near Donovan’s.

Donovan’s 10 HR’s and OPS .775 won’t be possible to replace.

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

No. Our strategy has to be more than hopes and prayers that everyone on the MLB roster simultaneously gets better while keeping the same manager and hitting coach that they haven't succeeded under yet.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 14:06 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 13:40 pm

Adam2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 12:47 pm

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Don't look now but Saggese had better power numbers in milb than Wetherholt.

You're not seriously comparing Saggese (J.A.G.) to a former NCAA batting champion and Top 5 MiLB prospect, right?

He's nowhere near the hitter JJW is and JJ will hit for way more power in MLB than Saggese (J.A.G.) ever will.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... gges000tho

https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... ther000jj-

I stated a fact. AT 21 Saggese hit 26 HR 111 RBI .306 avg in AA and AAA.

The question is whether Gorman starts. I'd put Saggese there because given 500 plate appearances he would hit as many home runs as Gorman with better contact. He is young enough to progress.

Saggese. Winn. Wetherholt. Burleson.