STLtoday.com

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 18:07 pm**

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:05 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:53 pm
CCard wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:30 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…

And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.

Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.

Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
Overhauled what? Adding minor league pitchers is not overhauling anything. Yes, trading away your best pitcher and best hitter and soon to be traded Donovan does equal tanking. When your plan is to not compete that equals tanking. Yes, yes it does.
They added three major league starters who could be good or better than their replacements. So the starting pitching can be better year over year.

Regarding the offense, the offseason isn’t over yet.
May
7-11, 4.96 ERA, 1.421 WHIP pitching for 2 of the best teams in MLB
Fitts,
2-4, 5.00ERA, 1.311 WHIP
Dobbins
4-1, 4.13ERA, 1.279WHIP
Boston Red Sox pitcher Hunter Dobbins suffered a season-ending torn right ACL in July 2025 while covering first base, marking his second ACL tear in that knee (he also tore it in high school). He underwent surgery in August 2025 and is aiming for a full recovery by Opening Day 2026, with his recovery progressing well as of late 2025.

How many times can an ACL be repaired and expected to be the push leg for a RHP in the MLB??

In the view of the Cards’medical experts, more than twice…

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 18:23 pm**

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 15:49 pm I applaud every move made thus far, but let's not get it twisted. These moves are in no way meant to win, or even try to win, this year.

These moves are for two things…

1. To mitigate the financial exposure when the lockout happens.

2. To bolster the farm so we are in a better place to compete post-lockout.

Bloom is doing just fine so far.

Regardless if someone agrees with the strategy or not, this post is 100% on as far as the direction they are taking. Some agree, some disagree, but it seems pretty clear to this point in time.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 18:37 pm**

zuck698 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 18:23 pm
Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 15:49 pm I applaud every move made thus far, but let's not get it twisted. These moves are in no way meant to win, or even try to win, this year.

These moves are for two things…

1. To mitigate the financial exposure when the lockout happens.

2. To bolster the farm so we are in a better place to compete post-lockout.

Bloom is doing just fine so far.
Regardless if someone agrees with the strategy or not, this post is 100% on as far as the direction they are taking. Some agree, some disagree, but it seems pretty clear to this point in time.

Cardinals:

1) added 3 pitchers who can potentially be an improvement over the ones they replaced.
2. lowered payroll because they are REBUiLDING and all teams in a rebuild lower payroll.
3. Bolster the farm because, again, we are in a REBUILD.

I think Bloom has done a great job, so far, but his actions are completely standard for a rebuild.

Funny how CTers treat it like an inkblot test. “Hey! I know what he’s doing! He’s preparing for a lockout!”

No, he’s rebuilding…

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 19:13 pm**

For those who don't understand the difference...

Not Trying = Tanking
Tanking <does NOT equal> Rebuilding

When tanking you shed your vets and unwanted contracts anyway possible to create the least competitive team to ensure the highest potential draft pick(s).

Rebuilding is trading players or vets not considered part of your future core for prospects who will either be part of your future core or become ancillary players or future trade pieces in hopes of competing in the future, be it near or far. If your team isn't good and earns top prospects so be it, but once you've shed players too old to be part of the future, winning is always welcome as soon as possible.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 19:28 pm**

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 19:13 pm For those who don't understand the difference...

Not Trying = Tanking
Tanking <does NOT equal> Rebuilding

When tanking you shed your vets and unwanted contracts anyway possible to create the least competitive team to ensure the highest potential draft pick(s).

Rebuilding is trading players or vets not considered part of your future core for prospects who will either be part of your future core or become ancillary players or future trade pieces in hopes of competing in the future, be it near or far. If your team isn't good and earns top prospects so be it, but once you've shed players too old to be part of the future, winning is always welcome as soon as possible.

Some still won’t be able to comprehend the difference

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 19:45 pm**

ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:53 pm
CCard wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:30 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…

And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.

Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.

Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
Overhauled what? Adding minor league pitchers is not overhauling anything. Yes, trading away your best pitcher and best hitter and soon to be traded Donovan does equal tanking. When your plan is to not compete that equals tanking. Yes, yes it does.
They added three major league starters who could be good or better than their replacements. So the starting pitching can be better year over year.

Regarding the offense, the offseason isn’t over yet.

Who are these major league starters you speak of? I haven't seen major league starters be acquired. Possible major league starters, but so were Mikolas and Pallante.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 19:51 pm**

CCard wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 19:45 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:53 pm
CCard wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:30 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…

And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.

Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.

Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
Overhauled what? Adding minor league pitchers is not overhauling anything. Yes, trading away your best pitcher and best hitter and soon to be traded Donovan does equal tanking. When your plan is to not compete that equals tanking. Yes, yes it does.
They added three major league starters who could be good or better than their replacements. So the starting pitching can be better year over year.

Regarding the offense, the offseason isn’t over yet.
Who are these major league starters you speak of? I haven't seen major league starters be acquired. Possible major league starters, but so were Mikolas and Pallante.

May, Fitts and Dobbins.

And there are talks of adding another arm via FA.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 20:16 pm**

ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 19:51 pmMay, Fitts and Dobbins.

And there are talks of adding another arm via FA.

They’re talking about building a third phase on Ballpark Village. Also, maybe I’m wrong, but I thought that they got involved with the Millennium Hotel redevelopment. What makes people think they’re going anywhere?

In the nearly 25 years I’ve been on this forum (very depressing) I have seen a lot of reasons why people believe that DeWitt is about to sell the team. Like right after they built the new stadium was a good one.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 21:57 pm**

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 15:42 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 13:36 pmI guess it’s all relative. You think replacing high ERA old fellas with High ERA younger fellas is some sort of advancement. Last I check you need 5 live bodies every day….
Gray, Miles, Fedde, Matz, Helsley Gone
And you’re excited about May, Dobbins, Fitts???
Of course it’s an advancement. Do you think spending $25 million ($35 million this year) on Gray, $18 million for Mikolas, $7.5 million for Fedde, $12.5 for Matz, and $2.1 million for Pallante is a good use of resources? I’d much rather have high ERA young players who are making league minimum than spending $65 million on high ERA old ones.

So, because it’s cheaper going this route means it’s an advancement? Are they spending those savings elsewhere to win in ‘26? Of course not, Dobbs.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 22:05 pm**

ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:53 pm
CCard wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:30 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…

And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.

Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.

Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
Overhauled what? Adding minor league pitchers is not overhauling anything. Yes, trading away your best pitcher and best hitter and soon to be traded Donovan does equal tanking. When your plan is to not compete that equals tanking. Yes, yes it does.
They added three major league starters who could be good or better than their replacements. So the starting pitching can be better year over year.

Regarding the offense, the offseason isn’t over yet.

Adding 3 starters means absolutely nothing if they suck. You are going to have a 5 or 6 man rotation either way, and that is completely irrelevant. We’ll have one of the worst starting staffs in MLB for ‘26, and I guarantee it.

As for your other point; you think they are trading our best hitters and bringing in BETTER ONES?! My Lord are you delusional, lol. The 2026 Cardinals will suck and are trying to suck.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 22:07 pm**

ShakeyWalton wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 21:57 pm
Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 15:42 pm
Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 13:36 pmI guess it’s all relative. You think replacing high ERA old fellas with High ERA younger fellas is some sort of advancement. Last I check you need 5 live bodies every day….
Gray, Miles, Fedde, Matz, Helsley Gone
And you’re excited about May, Dobbins, Fitts???
Of course it’s an advancement. Do you think spending $25 million ($35 million this year) on Gray, $18 million for Mikolas, $7.5 million for Fedde, $12.5 for Matz, and $2.1 million for Pallante is a good use of resources? I’d much rather have high ERA young players who are making league minimum than spending $65 million on high ERA old ones.
So, because it’s cheaper going this route means it’s an advancement? Are they spending those savings elsewhere to win in ‘26? Of course not, Dobbs.

No, because rebuilding teams lower spending.

Also, the Gray and Conteras trades increased the players we have in the org, on the mlb roster and years of control.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 22:09 pm**

ShakeyWalton wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 22:05 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:53 pm
CCard wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:30 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…

And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.

Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.

Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
Overhauled what? Adding minor league pitchers is not overhauling anything. Yes, trading away your best pitcher and best hitter and soon to be traded Donovan does equal tanking. When your plan is to not compete that equals tanking. Yes, yes it does.
They added three major league starters who could be good or better than their replacements. So the starting pitching can be better year over year.

Regarding the offense, the offseason isn’t over yet.
Adding 3 starters means absolutely nothing if they suck. You are going to have a 5 or 6 man rotation either way, and that is completely irrelevant. We’ll have one of the worst starting staffs in MLB for ‘26, and I guarantee it.

As for your other point; you think they are trading our best hitters and bringing in BETTER ONES?! My Lord are you delusional, lol. The 2026 Cardinals will suck and are trying to suck.

The starting staff could be much better than 2025’s

And though we lose WC, we also gain JJ. And they should pick up a few short term FAs as well.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 22:11 pm**

ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…

And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.

Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.

Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….

I’m for the trades, but don’t see how the staff is better. I guess most anyone is better than what Mikolas was, but who’s as good as Gray?

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 22:12 pm**

ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 22:09 pm
ShakeyWalton wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 22:05 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:53 pm
CCard wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:30 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…

And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.

Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.

Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
Overhauled what? Adding minor league pitchers is not overhauling anything. Yes, trading away your best pitcher and best hitter and soon to be traded Donovan does equal tanking. When your plan is to not compete that equals tanking. Yes, yes it does.
They added three major league starters who could be good or better than their replacements. So the starting pitching can be better year over year.

Regarding the offense, the offseason isn’t over yet.
Adding 3 starters means absolutely nothing if they suck. You are going to have a 5 or 6 man rotation either way, and that is completely irrelevant. We’ll have one of the worst starting staffs in MLB for ‘26, and I guarantee it.

As for your other point; you think they are trading our best hitters and bringing in BETTER ONES?! My Lord are you delusional, lol. The 2026 Cardinals will suck and are trying to suck.
The starting staff could be much better than 2025’s

And though we lose WC, we also gain JJ. And they should pick up a few short term FAs as well.

It could be. And it couldn’t be. What makes you think it could be much better? Who’s taking Gray’s place?

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 22:16 pm**

Also, how will the offense be better? I don’t see any promising additions or call ups that will replace the losses. Will JJ be better than Donovan?
I’m also fine if they are worse. I would rather see young players trying than the indecisive roster we had last year. Let’s see the young people play.

Posted: **23 Dec 2025 22:17 pm**

ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 22:09 pm
ShakeyWalton wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 22:05 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:53 pm
CCard wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 16:30 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 10:58 am Overhauled the starting staff before Xmas and that equals tanking? Hmm…

And obviously Bloom isn’t done with trades and FA signings.

Also, he traded a 34 year old and a 37 year old, with 2 and 1 years remaining respectively. And he still want to trade a floundering Arenado.

Lol. Some of you guys are acting like he’s trading Rolen-Pujols-Edmonds circa ‘03….
Overhauled what? Adding minor league pitchers is not overhauling anything. Yes, trading away your best pitcher and best hitter and soon to be traded Donovan does equal tanking. When your plan is to not compete that equals tanking. Yes, yes it does.
They added three major league starters who could be good or better than their replacements. So the starting pitching can be better year over year.

Regarding the offense, the offseason isn’t over yet.
Adding 3 starters means absolutely nothing if they suck. You are going to have a 5 or 6 man rotation either way, and that is completely irrelevant. We’ll have one of the worst starting staffs in MLB for ‘26, and I guarantee it.

As for your other point; you think they are trading our best hitters and bringing in BETTER ONES?! My Lord are you delusional, lol. The 2026 Cardinals will suck and are trying to suck.
The starting staff could be much better than 2025’s

And though we lose WC, we also gain JJ. And they should pick up a few short term FAs as well.

Why in the world would you think it might be “much better”? These guys we are receiving that will play in ‘26 have shown nothing sir. Could they be better? Maybe. But why “much better”?

JJ would replace Donovan or Arenado. Contreras has zero to do with that. And you think trading Arenado (useless) and/or Donovan gets us hitters ready to step in and be BETTER?! Even if that’s not your angle; you think the Cards sign high end offensive talent this offseason?!

STLtoday.com

When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?

Re: When did adding three starters = not trying?