A prospect ranked around #50 in MLB has an estimated 5% to 10% chance of becoming an MLB All-Star.

[CorneliusWolfe]

So if the Cardinals of all teams are going the small market route then how many other teams will take on the same philosophy in light of the handful of blue blood spenders?

Thus the demand for top end cost controlled talent is spread even thinner than it is now. Talk about "common sense".

So knowing that how can anyone in their right mind think this is a simple 2-3 year time frame to contending for a championship?

Teams aren't just going to line up and give you that kind of talent for Donovan, Contreras, Arenado, Bernal, Crooks or whoever might seem a good fit for a trade.

Supply and demand and the supply is only going to get less under the current structure.

No problem…just acquire 300% more prospects than everyone else and forcefully expand your rosters and wait for the next Pujols.

[CorneliusWolfe]

That's why you need to have more prospects rather than fewer.

You simply cannot balance the ML payroll budget without having a lot of young, cost controlled talent.

So however many spins of the wheel you need to accumulate enough such talent, because not all of them will succeed, is how many you have to take.

Your plan will not yield quality young cost-controlled “talent”. It yields a quantity of young cost-controlled players with low ceilings (scrubs).

You also can’t just hoard a [shirt] load of prospects. Minor league rosters have limits. Developmental opportunities have limits. Where do these massive quantity of prospects play? …basically in the big leagues like the Pirates.

Quantity over quantity is an oversimplified plan. ALL mechanisms should be in play at ALL times. To counter the OP’s premise, you’d need a 200 man roster at every level to overcome the 5-10% success rate.

I swear you must be a staffer for the DeWitts. You hunt down every post that pitches any other option other than tanking and write narratives and quote your own previous rants as if it provides any semblance of proof.

Then you defend your stance by saying the team “should/will” spend after all your beloved prospects turn into winners somehow from having their (bleep) handed to them, and playing on a team with no leadership or veteran presence for several years.

Winners aren’t forged from losers and choosing quantity over quality is the true path to mediocrity.

I for one haven’t heard any other options outside of rebuilding suggested on here that wasn’t a pipe dream or completely delusional. People have said oh let’s trade our second best catching prospect and a couple of utility players for Tatis who of course would definitely want to waive his no trade clause to come play here and let’s sign three or or four all star caliber free agents because they all of course want to play for St. Louis who haven’t been relevant in years and take less money to come here yea haven’t heard one suggestion that wasn’t delusional

That’s bull[shirt]. Plenty of posters have pitched reasonable ideas based on actual trade value formulas used by GMs. Even Matt has done so in his Donovan trade proposals.

If you’re talking about Shady, he’s…unique.

Also, what makes the cheap tank strategy so non-delusional? Have we not witnessed the zero championships from the Pirates, Brewers, Rays, Guardians etc.?

I’ve never said a rebuild is not in order. But a multifaceted approach and a little creativity can get us there without enduring many years of losing. And yes, that should include some spending. We are talking about the highly profitable business of professional sports here.

[11WSChamps]

So if the Cardinals of all teams are going the small market route then how many other teams will take on the same philosophy in light of the handful of blue blood spenders?

Thus the demand for top end cost controlled talent is spread even thinner than it is now. Talk about "common sense".

So knowing that how can anyone in their right mind think this is a simple 2-3 year time frame to contending for a championship?

Teams aren't just going to line up and give you that kind of talent for Donovan, Contreras, Arenado, Bernal, Crooks or whoever might seem a good fit for a trade.

Supply and demand and the supply is only going to get less under the current structure.

No problem…just acquire 300% more prospects than everyone else and forcefully expand your rosters and wait for the next Pujols.

I didn't include this before because I would have thought others would understand tge Cardinals can't be the only ones transitioning into this "model".

[Ozziesfan41]

That's why you need to have more prospects rather than fewer.

You simply cannot balance the ML payroll budget without having a lot of young, cost controlled talent.

So however many spins of the wheel you need to accumulate enough such talent, because not all of them will succeed, is how many you have to take.

Your plan will not yield quality young cost-controlled “talent”. It yields a quantity of young cost-controlled players with low ceilings (scrubs).

You also can’t just hoard a [shirt] load of prospects. Minor league rosters have limits. Developmental opportunities have limits. Where do these massive quantity of prospects play? …basically in the big leagues like the Pirates.

Quantity over quantity is an oversimplified plan. ALL mechanisms should be in play at ALL times. To counter the OP’s premise, you’d need a 200 man roster at every level to overcome the 5-10% success rate.

I swear you must be a staffer for the DeWitts. You hunt down every post that pitches any other option other than tanking and write narratives and quote your own previous rants as if it provides any semblance of proof.

Then you defend your stance by saying the team “should/will” spend after all your beloved prospects turn into winners somehow from having their (bleep) handed to them, and playing on a team with no leadership or veteran presence for several years.

Winners aren’t forged from losers and choosing quantity over quality is the true path to mediocrity.

I for one haven’t heard any other options outside of rebuilding suggested on here that wasn’t a pipe dream or completely delusional. People have said oh let’s trade our second best catching prospect and a couple of utility players for Tatis who of course would definitely want to waive his no trade clause to come play here and let’s sign three or or four all star caliber free agents because they all of course want to play for St. Louis who haven’t been relevant in years and take less money to come here yea haven’t heard one suggestion that wasn’t delusional

That’s bull[shirt]. Plenty of posters have pitched reasonable ideas based on actual trade value formulas used by GMs. Even Matt has done so in his Donovan trade proposals.

If you’re talking about Shady…he’s “unique”.

Also, what makes the cheap tank strategy so non-delusional? Have we not witnessed the zero championships from the Pirates, Brewers, Rays, Guardians etc.?

I’ve never said a rebuild is not in order. But a multifaceted approach and a little creativity can get us there without enduring many years of losing. And yes, that should include some spending. We are talking about the highly profitable business of professional sports here.

Well when you choose to ignore the fact that the cardinals will have more money to spend than all of those teams then yea it probably does seem delusional. Okay what non rebuilding strategy is the brilliant strategy that would lead to building a great team next season because I’ve read all of them and they’re pipe dreams and delusions so far. Give me your grand strategy

[11WSChamps]

That's why you need to have more prospects rather than fewer.

You simply cannot balance the ML payroll budget without having a lot of young, cost controlled talent.

So however many spins of the wheel you need to accumulate enough such talent, because not all of them will succeed, is how many you have to take.

Your plan will not yield quality young cost-controlled “talent”. It yields a quantity of young cost-controlled players with low ceilings (scrubs).

You also can’t just hoard a [shirt] load of prospects. Minor league rosters have limits. Developmental opportunities have limits. Where do these massive quantity of prospects play? …basically in the big leagues like the Pirates.

Quantity over quantity is an oversimplified plan. ALL mechanisms should be in play at ALL times. To counter the OP’s premise, you’d need a 200 man roster at every level to overcome the 5-10% success rate.

I swear you must be a staffer for the DeWitts. You hunt down every post that pitches any other option other than tanking and write narratives and quote your own previous rants as if it provides any semblance of proof.

Then you defend your stance by saying the team “should/will” spend after all your beloved prospects turn into winners somehow from having their (bleep) handed to them, and playing on a team with no leadership or veteran presence for several years.

Winners aren’t forged from losers and choosing quantity over quality is the true path to mediocrity.

I for one haven’t heard any other options outside of rebuilding suggested on here that wasn’t a pipe dream or completely delusional. People have said oh let’s trade our second best catching prospect and a couple of utility players for Tatis who of course would definitely want to waive his no trade clause to come play here and let’s sign three or or four all star caliber free agents because they all of course want to play for St. Louis who haven’t been relevant in years and take less money to come here yea haven’t heard one suggestion that wasn’t delusional

That’s bull[shirt]. Plenty of posters have pitched reasonable ideas based on actual trade value formulas used by GMs. Even Matt has done so in his Donovan trade proposals.

If you’re talking about Shady…he’s “unique”.

Also, what makes the cheap tank strategy so non-delusional? Have we not witnessed the zero championships from the Pirates, Brewers, Rays, Guardians etc.?

I’ve never said a rebuild is not in order. But a multifaceted approach and a little creativity can get us there without enduring many years of losing. And yes, that should include some spending. We are talking about the highly profitable business of professional sports here.

Well when you choose to ignore the fact that the cardinals will have more money to spend than all of those teams then yea it probably does seem delusional. Okay what non rebuilding strategy is the brilliant strategy that would lead to building a great team next season because I’ve read all of them and they’re pipe dreams and delusions so far. Give me your grand strategy

Just wondering how does
anyone know what level of spending this ownership group is going to spend on payroll
based on last year's statement that if fans stay away it won't be good for reinvesting in payroll?

What do you see attendance being in 2026 and what will it be in 2028 if indeed there is a work stoppage in 2027?

[CorneliusWolfe]

That's why you need to have more prospects rather than fewer.

You simply cannot balance the ML payroll budget without having a lot of young, cost controlled talent.

So however many spins of the wheel you need to accumulate enough such talent, because not all of them will succeed, is how many you have to take.

Your plan will not yield quality young cost-controlled “talent”. It yields a quantity of young cost-controlled players with low ceilings (scrubs).

You also can’t just hoard a [shirt] load of prospects. Minor league rosters have limits. Developmental opportunities have limits. Where do these massive quantity of prospects play? …basically in the big leagues like the Pirates.

Quantity over quantity is an oversimplified plan. ALL mechanisms should be in play at ALL times. To counter the OP’s premise, you’d need a 200 man roster at every level to overcome the 5-10% success rate.

I swear you must be a staffer for the DeWitts. You hunt down every post that pitches any other option other than tanking and write narratives and quote your own previous rants as if it provides any semblance of proof.

Then you defend your stance by saying the team “should/will” spend after all your beloved prospects turn into winners somehow from having their (bleep) handed to them, and playing on a team with no leadership or veteran presence for several years.

Winners aren’t forged from losers and choosing quantity over quality is the true path to mediocrity.

I for one haven’t heard any other options outside of rebuilding suggested on here that wasn’t a pipe dream or completely delusional. People have said oh let’s trade our second best catching prospect and a couple of utility players for Tatis who of course would definitely want to waive his no trade clause to come play here and let’s sign three or or four all star caliber free agents because they all of course want to play for St. Louis who haven’t been relevant in years and take less money to come here yea haven’t heard one suggestion that wasn’t delusional

That’s bull[shirt]. Plenty of posters have pitched reasonable ideas based on actual trade value formulas used by GMs. Even Matt has done so in his Donovan trade proposals.

If you’re talking about Shady…he’s “unique”.

Also, what makes the cheap tank strategy so non-delusional? Have we not witnessed the zero championships from the Pirates, Brewers, Rays, Guardians etc.?

I’ve never said a rebuild is not in order. But a multifaceted approach and a little creativity can get us there without enduring many years of losing. And yes, that should include some spending. We are talking about the highly profitable business of professional sports here.

Well when you choose to ignore the fact that the cardinals will have more money to spend than all of those teams then yea it probably does seem delusional. Okay what non rebuilding strategy is the brilliant strategy that would lead to building a great team next season because I’ve read all of them and they’re pipe dreams and delusions so far. Give me your grand strategy

Didn’t I just state a rebuild is in order? I’m just saying a multifaceted approach, where a GM does ALL aspects of his job and ownership supports with payroll increases to compensate for periods of bad drafting and development, like now, is the right and responsible way.

Also, do you think a dime of that revenue sharing money will go into improving the team? You bet your (donkey) it will go into the gambling scams and other non-baseball ventures though.

How can you get behind and defend this new model and still have any passion as a fan? It’s supposed to be fun, and I bet you’ve supported the team for years with some of your own hard earned money and probably made some fun memories with friends and family. You and the rest of the loyal fans deserve better. We helped finance the Dewitts business and made it successful. A little reinvestment should not be considered too much to ask. As far as who? …only GMs know who’s really even available and attainable, and they should be willing to pursue any and all courses of action as opportunities arise.

[renostl]

That's why you need to have more prospects rather than fewer.

You simply cannot balance the ML payroll budget without having a lot of young, cost controlled talent.

So however many spins of the wheel you need to accumulate enough such talent, because not all of them will succeed, is how many you have to take.

Your plan will not yield quality young cost-controlled “talent”. It yields a quantity of young cost-controlled players with low ceilings (scrubs).

You also can’t just hoard a [shirt] load of prospects. Minor league rosters have limits. Developmental opportunities have limits. Where do these massive quantity of prospects play? …basically in the big leagues like the Pirates.

Quantity over quantity is an oversimplified plan. ALL mechanisms should be in play at ALL times. To counter the OP’s premise, you’d need a 200 man roster at every level to overcome the 5-10% success rate.

I swear you must be a staffer for the DeWitts. You hunt down every post that pitches any other option other than tanking and write narratives and quote your own previous rants as if it provides any semblance of proof.

Then you defend your stance by saying the team “should/will” spend after all your beloved prospects turn into winners somehow from having their (bleep) handed to them, and playing on a team with no leadership or veteran presence for several years.

Winners aren’t forged from losers and choosing quantity over quality is the true path to mediocrity.

I for one haven’t heard any other options outside of rebuilding suggested on here that wasn’t a pipe dream or completely delusional. People have said oh let’s trade our second best catching prospect and a couple of utility players for Tatis who of course would definitely want to waive his no trade clause to come play here and let’s sign three or or four all star caliber free agents because they all of course want to play for St. Louis who haven’t been relevant in years and take less money to come here yea haven’t heard one suggestion that wasn’t delusional

That’s bull[shirt]. Plenty of posters have pitched reasonable ideas based on actual trade value formulas used by GMs. Even Matt has done so in his Donovan trade proposals.

If you’re talking about Shady…he’s “unique”.

Also, what makes the cheap tank strategy so non-delusional? Have we not witnessed the zero championships from the Pirates, Brewers, Rays, Guardians etc.?

I’ve never said a rebuild is not in order. But a multifaceted approach and a little creativity can get us there without enduring many years of losing. And yes, that should include some spending. We are talking about the highly profitable business of professional sports here.

Well when you choose to ignore the fact that the cardinals will have more money to spend than all of those teams then yea it probably does seem delusional. Okay what non rebuilding strategy is the brilliant strategy that would lead to building a great team next season because I’ve read all of them and they’re pipe dreams and delusions so far. Give me your grand strategy

Just wondering how does
anyone know what level of spending this ownership group is going to spend on payroll
based on last year's statement that if fans stay away it won't be good for reinvesting in payroll?

What do you see attendance being in 2026 and what will it be in 2028 if indeed there is a work stoppage in 2027?

How ignorant of a comment was that versus what could have been said.
Something along the lines of

"We need to improve this team in order to recapture the excitement and support the
fans have always given us"?

[11WSChamps]

That's why you need to have more prospects rather than fewer.

You simply cannot balance the ML payroll budget without having a lot of young, cost controlled talent.

So however many spins of the wheel you need to accumulate enough such talent, because not all of them will succeed, is how many you have to take.

Your plan will not yield quality young cost-controlled “talent”. It yields a quantity of young cost-controlled players with low ceilings (scrubs).

You also can’t just hoard a [shirt] load of prospects. Minor league rosters have limits. Developmental opportunities have limits. Where do these massive quantity of prospects play? …basically in the big leagues like the Pirates.

Quantity over quantity is an oversimplified plan. ALL mechanisms should be in play at ALL times. To counter the OP’s premise, you’d need a 200 man roster at every level to overcome the 5-10% success rate.

I swear you must be a staffer for the DeWitts. You hunt down every post that pitches any other option other than tanking and write narratives and quote your own previous rants as if it provides any semblance of proof.

Then you defend your stance by saying the team “should/will” spend after all your beloved prospects turn into winners somehow from having their (bleep) handed to them, and playing on a team with no leadership or veteran presence for several years.

Winners aren’t forged from losers and choosing quantity over quality is the true path to mediocrity.

I for one haven’t heard any other options outside of rebuilding suggested on here that wasn’t a pipe dream or completely delusional. People have said oh let’s trade our second best catching prospect and a couple of utility players for Tatis who of course would definitely want to waive his no trade clause to come play here and let’s sign three or or four all star caliber free agents because they all of course want to play for St. Louis who haven’t been relevant in years and take less money to come here yea haven’t heard one suggestion that wasn’t delusional

That’s bull[shirt]. Plenty of posters have pitched reasonable ideas based on actual trade value formulas used by GMs. Even Matt has done so in his Donovan trade proposals.

If you’re talking about Shady…he’s “unique”.

Also, what makes the cheap tank strategy so non-delusional? Have we not witnessed the zero championships from the Pirates, Brewers, Rays, Guardians etc.?

I’ve never said a rebuild is not in order. But a multifaceted approach and a little creativity can get us there without enduring many years of losing. And yes, that should include some spending. We are talking about the highly profitable business of professional sports here.

Well when you choose to ignore the fact that the cardinals will have more money to spend than all of those teams then yea it probably does seem delusional. Okay what non rebuilding strategy is the brilliant strategy that would lead to building a great team next season because I’ve read all of them and they’re pipe dreams and delusions so far. Give me your grand strategy

Just wondering how does
anyone know what level of spending this ownership group is going to spend on payroll
based on last year's statement that if fans stay away it won't be good for reinvesting in payroll?

What do you see attendance being in 2026 and what will it be in 2028 if indeed there is a work stoppage in 2027?

How ignorant of a comment was that versus what could have been said.
Something along the lines of

"We need to improve this team in order to recapture the excitement and support the
fans have always given us"?

Exactly.

So knowing that how can anyone know they will ante up ?

[Ozziesfan41]

That's why you need to have more prospects rather than fewer.

You simply cannot balance the ML payroll budget without having a lot of young, cost controlled talent.

So however many spins of the wheel you need to accumulate enough such talent, because not all of them will succeed, is how many you have to take.

Your plan will not yield quality young cost-controlled “talent”. It yields a quantity of young cost-controlled players with low ceilings (scrubs).

You also can’t just hoard a [shirt] load of prospects. Minor league rosters have limits. Developmental opportunities have limits. Where do these massive quantity of prospects play? …basically in the big leagues like the Pirates.

Quantity over quantity is an oversimplified plan. ALL mechanisms should be in play at ALL times. To counter the OP’s premise, you’d need a 200 man roster at every level to overcome the 5-10% success rate.

I swear you must be a staffer for the DeWitts. You hunt down every post that pitches any other option other than tanking and write narratives and quote your own previous rants as if it provides any semblance of proof.

Then you defend your stance by saying the team “should/will” spend after all your beloved prospects turn into winners somehow from having their (bleep) handed to them, and playing on a team with no leadership or veteran presence for several years.

Winners aren’t forged from losers and choosing quantity over quality is the true path to mediocrity.

I for one haven’t heard any other options outside of rebuilding suggested on here that wasn’t a pipe dream or completely delusional. People have said oh let’s trade our second best catching prospect and a couple of utility players for Tatis who of course would definitely want to waive his no trade clause to come play here and let’s sign three or or four all star caliber free agents because they all of course want to play for St. Louis who haven’t been relevant in years and take less money to come here yea haven’t heard one suggestion that wasn’t delusional

That’s bull[shirt]. Plenty of posters have pitched reasonable ideas based on actual trade value formulas used by GMs. Even Matt has done so in his Donovan trade proposals.

If you’re talking about Shady…he’s “unique”.

Also, what makes the cheap tank strategy so non-delusional? Have we not witnessed the zero championships from the Pirates, Brewers, Rays, Guardians etc.?

I’ve never said a rebuild is not in order. But a multifaceted approach and a little creativity can get us there without enduring many years of losing. And yes, that should include some spending. We are talking about the highly profitable business of professional sports here.

Well when you choose to ignore the fact that the cardinals will have more money to spend than all of those teams then yea it probably does seem delusional. Okay what non rebuilding strategy is the brilliant strategy that would lead to building a great team next season because I’ve read all of them and they’re pipe dreams and delusions so far. Give me your grand strategy

Didn’t I just state a rebuild is in order? I’m just saying a multifaceted approach, where a GM does ALL aspects of his job and ownership supports with payroll increases to compensate for periods of bad drafting and development, like now, is the right and responsible way.

Also, do you think a dime of that revenue sharing money will go into improving the team? You bet your (donkey) it will go into the gambling scams and other non-baseball ventures though.

How can you get behind and defend this new model and still have any passion as a fan? It’s supposed to be fun, and I bet you’ve supported the team for years with some of your own hard earned money and probably made some fun memories with friends and family. You and the rest of the loyal fans deserve better. We helped finance the Dewitts business and made it successful. A little reinvestment should not be considered too much to ask. As far as who? …only GMs know who’s really even available and attainable, and they should be willing to pursue any and all courses of action as opportunities arise.

I’ve stated many times my position that I can get behind any strategy as long as I believe it will lead to a chance of actually being able to compete for a World Series. If the cardinals went all in to build a team good enough to compete for a World Series I would get behind it if they chose to rebuild build a strong core then spend to bring in the additional pieces to make a team that can compete for a World Series then I can get behind it. But the stupid sustain mediocrity compete hope to squeak in and pray for miracles was a garbage strategy that was never going to win anything

[renostl]

That's why you need to have more prospects rather than fewer.

You simply cannot balance the ML payroll budget without having a lot of young, cost controlled talent.

So however many spins of the wheel you need to accumulate enough such talent, because not all of them will succeed, is how many you have to take.

Your plan will not yield quality young cost-controlled “talent”. It yields a quantity of young cost-controlled players with low ceilings (scrubs).

You also can’t just hoard a [shirt] load of prospects. Minor league rosters have limits. Developmental opportunities have limits. Where do these massive quantity of prospects play? …basically in the big leagues like the Pirates.

Quantity over quantity is an oversimplified plan. ALL mechanisms should be in play at ALL times. To counter the OP’s premise, you’d need a 200 man roster at every level to overcome the 5-10% success rate.

I swear you must be a staffer for the DeWitts. You hunt down every post that pitches any other option other than tanking and write narratives and quote your own previous rants as if it provides any semblance of proof.

Then you defend your stance by saying the team “should/will” spend after all your beloved prospects turn into winners somehow from having their (bleep) handed to them, and playing on a team with no leadership or veteran presence for several years.

Winners aren’t forged from losers and choosing quantity over quality is the true path to mediocrity.

I for one haven’t heard any other options outside of rebuilding suggested on here that wasn’t a pipe dream or completely delusional. People have said oh let’s trade our second best catching prospect and a couple of utility players for Tatis who of course would definitely want to waive his no trade clause to come play here and let’s sign three or or four all star caliber free agents because they all of course want to play for St. Louis who haven’t been relevant in years and take less money to come here yea haven’t heard one suggestion that wasn’t delusional

That’s bull[shirt]. Plenty of posters have pitched reasonable ideas based on actual trade value formulas used by GMs. Even Matt has done so in his Donovan trade proposals.

If you’re talking about Shady…he’s “unique”.

Also, what makes the cheap tank strategy so non-delusional? Have we not witnessed the zero championships from the Pirates, Brewers, Rays, Guardians etc.?

I’ve never said a rebuild is not in order. But a multifaceted approach and a little creativity can get us there without enduring many years of losing. And yes, that should include some spending. We are talking about the highly profitable business of professional sports here.

Well when you choose to ignore the fact that the cardinals will have more money to spend than all of those teams then yea it probably does seem delusional. Okay what non rebuilding strategy is the brilliant strategy that would lead to building a great team next season because I’ve read all of them and they’re pipe dreams and delusions so far. Give me your grand strategy

Just wondering how does
anyone know what level of spending this ownership group is going to spend on payroll
based on last year's statement that if fans stay away it won't be good for reinvesting in payroll?

What do you see attendance being in 2026 and what will it be in 2028 if indeed there is a work stoppage in 2027?

How ignorant of a comment was that versus what could have been said.
Something along the lines of

"We need to improve this team in order to recapture the excitement and support the
fans have always given us"?

Exactly.

So knowing that how can anyone know they will ante up ?

You can't.

However there should be motivation to do so or the product
will not be one that has much demand. They should not be drawing 3000 less
fans per game than a 119 loss team.

The Cards turned off the core fan. Not just the WS or bust guys or the bandwagon fans.
Part of that was a good ol protest from St louis.