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ramfandan wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 13:45 pm The general consensus among baseball analysts is that a manager's direct impact on the win column in a single season is relatively small , often cited in the range of 2 to 5 additional wins .

The primary determinant of a team's success is the quality of the players. As the saying goes 'good players make a good manager' .
So player talent is paramount.

smilinjoefission wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:05 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 13:45 pm The general consensus among baseball analysts is that a manager's direct impact on the win column in a single season is relatively small , often cited in the range of 2 to 5 additional wins .

The primary determinant of a team's success is the quality of the players. As the saying goes 'good players make a good manager' .
So player talent is paramount.

He's the one who picks the pitchers; who pitches, how long, who comes in relief, etc...that alone probably cost us 10+ games. He's NOT a MLB quality manager and if losing 1 million fans don't prove it maybe losing another million more will.

cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:15 pm

smilinjoefission wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:05 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 13:45 pm The general consensus among baseball analysts is that a manager's direct impact on the win column in a single season is relatively small , often cited in the range of 2 to 5 additional wins .

The primary determinant of a team's success is the quality of the players. As the saying goes 'good players make a good manager' .
So player talent is paramount.

He's the one who picks the pitchers; who pitches, how long, who comes in relief, etc...that alone probably cost us 10+ games. He's NOT a MLB quality manager and if losing 1 million fans don't prove it maybe losing another million more will.

The Cards ranked 10th in MLB in bullpen ERA in 2025. They also sold off 2 of their late inning relievers at the trade deadline.

The Cards ranked 8th in MLB in average SP innings per start at 5.28, contrary to Cards Talk thinking Oli pulls his starting pitchers so much earlier than any other team in the league. He definitely cost the team at least 10 wins though with his bad BP management over the last few seasons combined.

How much better of a job could any manager have done with the 2025 Cardinals bullpen?

Hilarious that you think Oli cost the Cards 10+ games in 2025 So you're saying any other manager would have had this team at almost 90 wins last season? Ridiculous.

TopofthePerch wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 15:38 pm Lol at anyone that thinks could manage the team half as well as Oli. I love watching people's heads explode though. I hope they resign him for 5 years.

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:02 pm

TopofthePerch wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 15:38 pm Lol at anyone that thinks could manage the team half as well as Oli. I love watching people's heads explode though. I hope they resign him for 5 years.

I honestly don't know if anyone else could have gotten a better record from this team in 2025. I do know pulling Quintana after 75 pitches and trying to get 2 innings from a closer with a jammed finger was idiotic and he STILL thinks he made the right decisions that night. He did pull starters far too early in 23 and 24, but this year, at least before their epic collapse, I thought he did a much better job managing the BP.

What I DO know is the majority of the fans have no faith in Oli and view him as a remnant of the past regime and do not believe he's done anything to prove he's worthy of an extension at this time. Giving him ANOTHER undeserving extension will do nothing but further alienate the fans and slow the timetable of trust and success they're trying to rebuild.

As far as you Oli apologists go, I have no idea what you see in him that warrants such undeserving loyalty.

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:02 pm

TopofthePerch wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 15:38 pm Lol at anyone that thinks could manage the team half as well as Oli. I love watching people's heads explode though. I hope they resign him for 5 years.

I honestly don't know if anyone else could have gotten a better record from this team in 2025. I do know pulling Quintana after 75 pitches and trying to get 2 innings from a closer with a jammed finger was idiotic and he STILL thinks he made the right decisions that night. He did pull starters far too early in 23 and 24, but this year, at least before their epic collapse, I thought he did a much better job managing the BP.

What I DO know is the majority of the fans have no faith in Oli and view him as a remnant of the past regime and do not believe he's done anything to prove he's worthy of an extension at this time. Giving him ANOTHER undeserving extension will do nothing but further alienate the fans and slow the timetable of trust and success they're trying to rebuild.

As far as you Oli apologists go, I have no idea what you see in him that warrants such undeserving loyalty.

TopofthePerch wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 15:38 pm Lol at anyone that thinks could manage the team half as well as Oli. I love watching people's heads explode though. I hope they resign him for 5 years.

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 14:35 pm Of course the players love Marmol! You don't have to perform at your job and he's always got your back as long as you have the appearance of effort.

Making the position a trial for unproven, no-MLB experience rookie managers was bad. Extending him and telling him and the fans "we're doing this so you don't feel the pressure to win" was catastrophic. They flushed the most guaranteed thing in MLB (Cards fans showing up a rate of 3 mil+ per season) down the drain with this move. Extending him AGAIN before he's shown any improvement or won anything would be apocalyptic.

And to those who say "Marmol's never had a real team," Bullsheet! He had a great team in 22 and he blew it by pulling his starter after 75 pitches and then trying to get 2 innings out of an injured 1-inning closer. In 23, his team was picked to win the division, and they ended with the Cards in last place for the first time in decades.

The last 3 seasons, his team's follow the exact same pattern each year: slow start followed by a tremendous bounceback where the team plays like one of the best teams in MLB for 4-6 weeks, and then the season ends with a total collapse around the mid-mark when they play so horribly for a month+ that they can't make up the ground they lost in that one bad month.

I refuse to believe the Cards are this stupid. Now if the team performs and shows growth and progress in 26 and Marmol makes good decisions and an extension is warranted, so be it.

cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:35 pm

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 16:02 pm

TopofthePerch wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 15:38 pm Lol at anyone that thinks could manage the team half as well as Oli. I love watching people's heads explode though. I hope they resign him for 5 years.

I honestly don't know if anyone else could have gotten a better record from this team in 2025. I do know pulling Quintana after 75 pitches and trying to get 2 innings from a closer with a jammed finger was idiotic and he STILL thinks he made the right decisions that night. He did pull starters far too early in 23 and 24, but this year, at least before their epic collapse, I thought he did a much better job managing the BP.

What I DO know is the majority of the fans have no faith in Oli and view him as a remnant of the past regime and do not believe he's done anything to prove he's worthy of an extension at this time. Giving him ANOTHER undeserving extension will do nothing but further alienate the fans and slow the timetable of trust and success they're trying to rebuild.

As far as you Oli apologists go, I have no idea what you see in him that warrants such undeserving loyalty.

Not an Oli apologist at all. I couldn't care less if he were fired today or extended another couple season. This team does not have the talent to compete. Look at the starting rotation and 9 man starting lineup the last couple seasons and tell me with a straight face what manager could actually guide this team into the playoffs, keeping in mind that we sold off our top 2 bullpen arms at the trade deadline last season as well.

ForumPolice wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 17:37 pm Dumbest idea of all time. Trying to bring back fans and you want to extend a highly unpopular manager? Dumb

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 18:26 pm

ForumPolice wrote: ↑27 Nov 2025 17:37 pm Dumbest idea of all time. Trying to bring back fans and you want to extend a highly unpopular manager? Dumb

Is there any source that the average fan dislikes Marmol? I mean this forum isn't indicative of the average fan.