STLtoday.com

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 04:54 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 04:49 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 04:42 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 03:51 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 02:00 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 19:31 pm No, I think they are back winning a division title by 2028 or 2029.

Yeah, sure.
Based on what exactly?
You have Insight into the prospects they plan to acquire, develop and deploy?
These prospects will all be so good they the win the division in 3 years?
Oh, and they have such a grand manager too.
This org has done nothing to suggest they could win anything in 3 years.
This is a mattmitch gut feeling only.
Which that plus $4 might buy you a cup of coffee at a Denny's restaurant.

Based on the fact that I believe in Bloom's, Cerfolio's, etc. track record of being able to identify, acquire, and develop prospect talent.

And based on the fact that I believe they already possess two key pieces - Weatherholt and Doyle - who have the potential to develop within the next three years (setting the team up for 2029 at the latest) and fill their biggest needs - a young, cost controlled 4+ fWAR position player and a front-of-rotation SP.

They also have the trade equity right now in Donovan, Gray (eating some salary), Arenado (eating some salary) to acquire more AA and AAA prospects who should be on the fast track to getting to the majors and at least being average ML starting players to go along with Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Liberatore, etc.

If/when those pieces fall into place, as long as Bloom can just get an average return by going out and signing FAs in the post-2027 and post-2028 offseasons with the balance of a $170 or $180 million payroll, the Cardinals will have the talent to win the NL Central.

I can dream too.
I can dream that Doyle is a front of the rotation stud.
I can dream that they fleece teams of their budding talent for the likes of Gray and Arenado.
I can dream that Liberatore, Winn, Herrera and Burleson are great players.
Sure can, but that don't make it so.
Meanwhile, the other teams are ahead of us in talent and some in farm system, as well as, management of their respective teams.
No, this will be a longer process than you anticipate when we go full rebuild.

Dreamer. You’re nothing but a dreamer- Super Tramp.

Actually you two have a good discussion. I’m thinking you both have valid points and the answer is a hybrid of several fine models.

I love Super Tramp.
Great song, great group.
Bulldog, I hope MattMitch is right and I am wrong.
I hope that is the case.

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 04:42 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 03:51 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 02:00 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 19:31 pm No, I think they are back winning a division title by 2028 or 2029.

Yeah, sure.
Based on what exactly?
You have Insight into the prospects they plan to acquire, develop and deploy?
These prospects will all be so good they the win the division in 3 years?
Oh, and they have such a grand manager too.
This org has done nothing to suggest they could win anything in 3 years.
This is a mattmitch gut feeling only.
Which that plus $4 might buy you a cup of coffee at a Denny's restaurant.

Based on the fact that I believe in Bloom's, Cerfolio's, etc. track record of being able to identify, acquire, and develop prospect talent.

And based on the fact that I believe they already possess two key pieces - Weatherholt and Doyle - who have the potential to develop within the next three years (setting the team up for 2029 at the latest) and fill their biggest needs - a young, cost controlled 4+ fWAR position player and a front-of-rotation SP.

They also have the trade equity right now in Donovan, Gray (eating some salary), Arenado (eating some salary) to acquire more AA and AAA prospects who should be on the fast track to getting to the majors and at least being average ML starting players to go along with Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Liberatore, etc.

If/when those pieces fall into place, as long as Bloom can just get an average return by going out and signing FAs in the post-2027 and post-2028 offseasons with the balance of a $170 or $180 million payroll, the Cardinals will have the talent to win the NL Central.

I can dream too.
I can dream that Doyle is a front of the rotation stud.
I can dream that they fleece teams of their budding talent for the likes of Gray and Arenado.
I can dream that Liberatore, Winn, Herrera and Burleson are great players.
Sure can, but that don't make it so.
Meanwhile, the other teams are ahead of us in talent and some in farm system, as well as, management of their respective teams.
No, this will be a longer process than you anticipate when we go full rebuild.

Bully4you wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 06:59 am Who says differently?
The Brewers and Cubs are clearly better.
The Reds have better talent and management.
The Pirates are on the rise with their farm system and current CY winner.
The only way the Cards can overcome this prediction is to spend.
They don't seem willing to do that.
Heck, they've even managed to brainwash some of the people on CT that they shouldn't spend.

1_12_1968 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 11:01 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 06:59 am Who says differently?
The Brewers and Cubs are clearly better.
The Reds have better talent and management.
The Pirates are on the rise with their farm system and current CY winner.
The only way the Cards can overcome this prediction is to spend.
They don't seem willing to do that.
Heck, they've even managed to brainwash some of the people on CT that they shouldn't spend.

Cardinals will make the playoffs in 3 years. WS competitive in 5.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 11:40 am

1_12_1968 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 11:01 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 06:59 am Who says differently?
The Brewers and Cubs are clearly better.
The Reds have better talent and management.
The Pirates are on the rise with their farm system and current CY winner.
The only way the Cards can overcome this prediction is to spend.
They don't seem willing to do that.
Heck, they've even managed to brainwash some of the people on CT that they shouldn't spend.

Cardinals will make the playoffs in 3 years. WS competitive in 5.

6 years without playoffs is a massive missed opportunity - despite what predicament we were in at any given time. Its too long to be considered a above average turnaround. More like extended mismanagement, including Oli.

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 02:03 am

Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 22:37 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 06:59 am Who says differently?
The Brewers and Cubs are clearly better.
The Reds have better talent and management.
The Pirates are on the rise with their farm system and current CY winner.
The only way the Cards can overcome this prediction is to spend.
They don't seem willing to do that.
Heck, they've even managed to brainwash some of the people on CT that they shouldn't spend.

Completely disagree. After wasting seasons they are building this correctly. Now is not the time to spend. Get the young core in place then spend to fill holes.

It takes a long time to find, develop and have a core produce.
When we don't even have a core to begin with, how are they going to win in less than 5 years?
Hell, it probably takes longer during a full rebuild.
Which all indications are what they plan to do.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 11:58 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 11:40 am

1_12_1968 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 11:01 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 06:59 am Who says differently?
The Brewers and Cubs are clearly better.
The Reds have better talent and management.
The Pirates are on the rise with their farm system and current CY winner.
The only way the Cards can overcome this prediction is to spend.
They don't seem willing to do that.
Heck, they've even managed to brainwash some of the people on CT that they shouldn't spend.

Cardinals will make the playoffs in 3 years. WS competitive in 5.

6 years without playoffs is a massive missed opportunity - despite what predicament we were in at any given time. Its too long to be considered a above average turnaround. More like extended mismanagement, including Oli.

The past is past. Can't do anything about it.

I've said they should have traded Goldschmidt and Arenado back in 2023 to accelerate the rebuild. But they didn't take advantage of that opportunity and they are where they are.