STLtoday.com

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

OldRed wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:43 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 16:37 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 20:34 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 20:24 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 20:23 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 19:40 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

So you’re thinking MM will be going into the hall of
Fame as a manger? lol

Never said that. Just said he wasn’t as bad as some say.

He’s not as good as some say either.

Never said he was good. But he had more credentials than Shildt and Oli.

MS and OM had more credentials as a coach/manager.

And to compare Matheny to LaRussa and Herzog is a real stretch of the imagination.

Never said Matheny was in the same class as Larussa and Herzog. Just posted facts.

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 08:36 am

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

I respect your right to have an opinion, rock. But you're horribly wrong this time.

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 10:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 08:36 am

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

I respect your right to have an opinion, rock. But you're horribly wrong this time.

Matheny was given a great situation.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 10:18 am

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 10:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 08:36 am

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

I respect your right to have an opinion, rock. But you're horribly wrong this time.

Matheny was given a great situation.

He was. Unfortunately, Mo let the roster slide as the years went on. But even with that Matheny still kept winning. He never has a losing season, like Oli has. Look at the difference in the team Matheny inherited in November of 2011 compared to the roster he had in the season of 2018, when he was let go as Mo's scapegoat. Although he gets trashed by many posters on CT, Baseball America in 2015 polled the managers and coaches in the NL as to whom they thought the best manager in the league was, and Matheny came in 2nd. Peer review vs. anonymous CT forum review.

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 10:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 08:36 am

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

I respect your right to have an opinion, rock. But you're horribly wrong this time.

Same here cranny. But I'm not wrong, Matheny was a terrible Manager who was only hired because BDWJr felt he'd sell tickets since he was a one time Cardinals fan favorite.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:19 am

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 10:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 08:36 am

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

I respect your right to have an opinion, rock. But you're horribly wrong this time.

Same here cranny. But I'm not wrong, Matheny was a terrible Manager who was only hired because BDWJr felt he'd sell tickets since he was a one time Cardinals fan favorite.

Actually, rock, Matheny started doing work in the Cardinals organization in January of 2008, and was then promoted to manager in November of 2011. So they full well knew he was effective in working with many players. Especially in a concentrated environment like ST.

Year; Actual W-L; x-W/L; Delta
2012: 88-74; 93-69; -5
2013: 97-65; 101-61; -4
2014: 90-72; 83-79; +7
2015: 100-62; 96-66; +4
2016: 86-76; 88-74; -2
2017: 83-79; 87-75; -4
2018: 47-46; 47-46; 0
Total: 591-474; 595-470; -4

Matheny, like most managers, was roughly as good as the rosters he was given.

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:19 am

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 10:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 08:36 am

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

I respect your right to have an opinion, rock. But you're horribly wrong this time.

Same here cranny. But I'm not wrong, Matheny was a terrible Manager who was only hired because BDWJr felt he'd sell tickets since he was a one time Cardinals fan favorite.

Actually, rock, Matheny started doing work in the Cardinals organization in January of 2008, and was then promoted to manager in November of 2011. So they full well knew he was effective in working with many players. Especially in a concentrated environment like ST.

Good guy but............

horrible in game manager who mangled the bullpen ending many RP"s careers prematurely.

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:19 am

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 10:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 08:36 am

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

I respect your right to have an opinion, rock. But you're horribly wrong this time.

Same here cranny. But I'm not wrong, Matheny was a terrible Manager who was only hired because BDWJr felt he'd sell tickets since he was a one time Cardinals fan favorite.

Actually, rock, Matheny started doing work in the Cardinals organization in January of 2008, and was then promoted to manager in November of 2011. So they full well knew he was effective in working with many players. Especially in a concentrated environment like ST.

“On January 24, 2008, Matheny returned to the St. Louis Cardinals as a special adviser for the first two weeks of spring training.”

What a resume…

ecleme22 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 12:47 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:19 am

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 10:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 08:36 am

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

I respect your right to have an opinion, rock. But you're horribly wrong this time.

Same here cranny. But I'm not wrong, Matheny was a terrible Manager who was only hired because BDWJr felt he'd sell tickets since he was a one time Cardinals fan favorite.

Actually, rock, Matheny started doing work in the Cardinals organization in January of 2008, and was then promoted to manager in November of 2011. So they full well knew he was effective in working with many players. Especially in a concentrated environment like ST.

“On January 24, 2008, Matheny returned to the St. Louis Cardinals as a special adviser for the first two weeks of spring training.”

What a resume…

And worked with young players in the Cardinals system every year until they made him manager.

Also, in a peer review vs. a "rock" review, I'll take the peer review every time. You have your "opinion", rock. Nothing more, nothing less.

Cranny isn't capable of objectivity where Matheny is concerned. He clearly has a soft spot for the guy.

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 12:52 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 12:47 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:19 am

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 10:14 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 08:36 am

Cranny wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 15:40 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑30 Oct 2025 08:37 am

Cranny wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 15:42 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 13:16 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 18:13 pm Career Winning Percentages -

Matheny - .538
Larussa - .537
Herzog - .532

Matheny wasn't all that bad. And don't try to make a case that he had better players than other managers. He
had a very weak center of the lineup his last few years here. And he had a very low budget team when he was in
Kansas City.

You make some stupid post cranny but this one takes the cake.

To even list that slug Matheny w/two Hall of Fame, World Series winning Cardinals Managers make you look like a fool.

If you think a person is a "slug", rock, there's no more conversation to be had.

And if you think Matheny inheriting a WS Championship team and riding their coattails comps him to the great Whitey & TLR, then you're right there is no conversation to be had.

I never compared Matheny to HOFs Larussa and Herzog. I simple posted winning percentages and said that maybe Matheny wasn't as bad as some people have portrayed.

Matheny was nothing more than a passenger, he did more to hamper those teams than help them.

I respect your right to have an opinion, rock. But you're horribly wrong this time.

Same here cranny. But I'm not wrong, Matheny was a terrible Manager who was only hired because BDWJr felt he'd sell tickets since he was a one time Cardinals fan favorite.

Actually, rock, Matheny started doing work in the Cardinals organization in January of 2008, and was then promoted to manager in November of 2011. So they full well knew he was effective in working with many players. Especially in a concentrated environment like ST.

“On January 24, 2008, Matheny returned to the St. Louis Cardinals as a special adviser for the first two weeks of spring training.”

What a resume…

And worked with young players in the Cardinals system every year until they made him manager.

Also, in a peer review vs. a "rock" review, I'll take the peer review every time. You have your "opinion", rock. Nothing more, nothing less.

Here's what A.I. said about Matheny's managerial flaws and why he was fired, spot on and what many of us have said for years:

.....he was ultimately fired due to poor in-game tactical decisions, a conflict with the team's use of analytics, poor relationships with his players, and an inability to handle the media effectively.

And here come's cranny in 3.....2....1......

Looks like the Mozo the Clown puppy has a new chew toy...bow wow

Cranny wrote: ↑31 Oct 2025 11:49 am
Actually, rock, Matheny started doing work in the Cardinals organization in January of 2008, and was then promoted to manager in November of 2011. So they full well knew he was effective in working with many players. Especially in a concentrated environment like ST.

lol… he was a “special advisor” for two weeks in spring training. Matheny had zero professional experience as manager or coach when the Cardinals hired him after La Russa quit.