Melville wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 09:31 am
Not really.
He and the Dodgers were given a grossly unfair advantage.
I suppose the corrupt Ohtani rule did however achieve the desired outcome.
Corrupt? Why? The rule would apply to another player that could pitch and hit as well. Do you have anyone in mind? Or is it corrupt because only player is capable of doing it.
I guess the NFL had a corrupt rule when "Jet Stream" Roy Green could play offense and defense in the same game.
Ohtani is an example of a true "unicorn".
It is a corrupt rule because it was put in place solely to drive revenue, gives one team an intentional lineup advantage over all others, forces 29 managers to manage a game one way and gives a free pass to the 30th, and makes equal competition a complete mockery.
Other teams can DH their pitchers.
No one stopping them.
No other team had a rule created to benefit just one player - and thereby benefit just that one team.
They didn't create the rule for Ohtani and the Dodgers.
The rule was a long time coming.
The same rule that was in the American League for how many years before Ohtani sir?
That's correct, this rule has been in effect in the American league forever now.
The American League could have used a pitcher to hit if they so choose to in the 80's, 90's, 2000's etc.
The rule wasn't made specifically for one team or guy.
It was modeled after the American League.
No, a pitcher removed from the mound could not have continued to hit.
That was changed solely to benefit Ohtani - and to keep the best player in MLB in the game for marketing purposes.
And last night it did exactly as designed.
Look at the marketing benefit from last night's game.
Yea it’s pretty pathetic MLB changed the rules to benefit one team and one player. It would have made the dodgers decide do we start ohtani in order to get him on the mound and lose his bat later in the game or DH him and have to go to a lesser pitcher oh don’t worry MLB has the dodgers back to make sure they have the advantage and don’t have to worry about it
IMO
MLB should just be more consistent. IF a DH goes into the game a team loses the DH.
It's called the "Ohtani rule" for a reason.
He's a special player that should be ashamed for getting in line twice when receiving
baseball talents from the baseball god's.
There was once a SP who pitched a WS game in '67 that pitched a CG in game #7 to secure a WS win
while giving up 2 runs.
Another time in 1968 in a CG giving up a single run a HR was hit to help win a WS game #4.
Melville wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 09:31 am
Not really.
He and the Dodgers were given a grossly unfair advantage.
I suppose the corrupt Ohtani rule did however achieve the desired outcome.
Corrupt? Why? The rule would apply to another player that could pitch and hit as well. Do you have anyone in mind? Or is it corrupt because only player is capable of doing it.
I guess the NFL had a corrupt rule when "Jet Stream" Roy Green could play offense and defense in the same game.
Ohtani is an example of a true "unicorn".
It is a corrupt rule because it was put in place solely to drive revenue, gives one team an intentional lineup advantage over all others, forces 29 managers to manage a game one way and gives a free pass to the 30th, and makes equal competition a complete mockery.
Other teams can DH their pitchers.
No one stopping them.
No other team had a rule created to benefit just one player - and thereby benefit just that one team.
They didn't create the rule for Ohtani and the Dodgers.
The rule was a long time coming.
The same rule that was in the American League for how many years before Ohtani sir?
That's correct, this rule has been in effect in the American league forever now.
The American League could have used a pitcher to hit if they so choose to in the 80's, 90's, 2000's etc.
The rule wasn't made specifically for one team or guy.
It was modeled after the American League.
No, a pitcher removed from the mound could not have continued to hit.
That was changed solely to benefit Ohtani - and to keep the best player in MLB in the game for marketing purposes.
And last night it did exactly as designed.
Look at the marketing benefit from last night's game.
Yea it’s pretty pathetic MLB changed the rules to benefit one team and one player. It would have made the dodgers decide do we start ohtani in order to get him on the mound and lose his bat later in the game or DH him and have to go to a lesser pitcher oh don’t worry MLB has the dodgers back to make sure they have the advantage and don’t have to worry about it
Quality post on your part.
There is even more advantage to the Dodgers than what you correctly outlined above.
Would the Dodgers EVER bat Ohtani at leadoff if they knew that a relief pitcher would take over that spot in the batting order if Ohtani was lifted?
Of course not.
But due to the special rule designed to benefit just him and the Dodgers, he is able to leadoff the first inning with a HR, completely changing the game and giving his team a massive advantage in an elimination game.
The entire integrity of that game was corrupted from the very beginning.
Except that, again, this rule doesn't apply only to Shohei Ohtani. If any other player has the ability to pitch 6 innings and be a valuable enough hitter to remain in the game as a DH after they've finished pitching, they're more than welcome to do so.
I absolutely loathe the (Ef'En) LA Deferrals and can't wait for a salary cap and floor, but blaming this option that EVERY PLAYER can take advantage of is just kinda... bleh
Respectfully, you are being rather disingenuous.
It is known as the Ohtani Rule for a reason.
It was created specifically to give him an advantage - a rule specifically designed to allow him to remain in a game.
As detailed with brilliant analysis previously in this thread, it was implemented specifically for him.
And it gives the Dodgers a huge edge in lineup construction, bullpen management, and in-game situation based decision making.
The rule would not exist if Ohtani was not in MLB - and you are fully aware of that.
No player in MLB history has ever been given similar treatment.
Melville wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 09:31 am
Not really.
He and the Dodgers were given a grossly unfair advantage.
I suppose the corrupt Ohtani rule did however achieve the desired outcome.
Corrupt? Why? The rule would apply to another player that could pitch and hit as well. Do you have anyone in mind? Or is it corrupt because only player is capable of doing it.
I guess the NFL had a corrupt rule when "Jet Stream" Roy Green could play offense and defense in the same game.
Ohtani is an example of a true "unicorn".
It is a corrupt rule because it was put in place solely to drive revenue, gives one team an intentional lineup advantage over all others, forces 29 managers to manage a game one way and gives a free pass to the 30th, and makes equal competition a complete mockery.
Other teams can DH their pitchers.
No one stopping them.
No other team had a rule created to benefit just one player - and thereby benefit just that one team.
They didn't create the rule for Ohtani and the Dodgers.
The rule was a long time coming.
The same rule that was in the American League for how many years before Ohtani sir?
That's correct, this rule has been in effect in the American league forever now.
The American League could have used a pitcher to hit if they so choose to in the 80's, 90's, 2000's etc.
The rule wasn't made specifically for one team or guy.
It was modeled after the American League.
No, a pitcher removed from the mound could not have continued to hit.
That was changed solely to benefit Ohtani - and to keep the best player in MLB in the game for marketing purposes.
And last night it did exactly as designed.
Look at the marketing benefit from last night's game.
Yea it’s pretty pathetic MLB changed the rules to benefit one team and one player. It would have made the dodgers decide do we start ohtani in order to get him on the mound and lose his bat later in the game or DH him and have to go to a lesser pitcher oh don’t worry MLB has the dodgers back to make sure they have the advantage and don’t have to worry about it
IMO
MLB should just be more consistent. IF a DH goes into the game a team loses the DH.
It's called the "Ohtani rule" for a reason.
He's a special player that should be ashamed for getting in line twice when receiving
baseball talents from the baseball god's.
There was once a SP who pitched a WS game in '67 that pitched a CG in game #7 to secure a WS win
while giving up 2 runs.
Another time in 1968 in a CG giving up a single run a HR was hit to help win a WS game #4.
You make a great point.
If Ohtani truly believes he is the best player in MLB, he should demand the opportunity to prove it on a level playing field.
Shows a real lack of integrity on his part.
I haven’t been following this much but very intrigued now.
What was the official designation for Ohtani when the game started?
Did the Dodgers have a DH in the lineup to start the game?
And MLB actually distorts the substitution rule and allows a player to stay in game to HIT
Next they’ll place ghost runners on 2nd in extra innings, mandate relievers stay in game to face 3 hitters……
Jeezus, is there any doubt this forum would have sharted all over the time Musial hit 5 HRs in a double header? It was only May. They didn’t sweep. Losing record. Haven’t been in the postseason in eight years.
Goldfan wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 14:25 pm
I haven’t been following this much but very intrigued now.
What was the official designation for Ohtani when the game started?
Did the Dodgers have a DH in the lineup to start the game?
And MLB actually distorts the substitution rule and allows a player to stay in game to HIT
Next they’ll place ghost runners on 2nd in extra innings, mandate relievers stay in game to face 3 hitters……
Perhaps the Cardinals should be allowed to use Scott as the ghost runner to start every extra inning, while also permitting him to play CF all game long.
After all, he is their best CF/pinch-runner "2-way player".....
Why shouldn't he have a special rule to benefit just him and just his team....
Pitched a 14 inning complete game and allowed 1 run on 6 hits
The run scored on an inside the park HR in the 1st inning!
At the plate, he went 0-5 but so what!
1.082 WPA
4.8 RE24
I'm sure there have been other dominating performances in a post season game but I just picked this one because it was Babe Ruth having a bad day at the plate.
Goldfan wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 14:25 pm
I haven’t been following this much but very intrigued now.
What was the official designation for Ohtani when the game started?
Did the Dodgers have a DH in the lineup to start the game?
And MLB actually distorts the substitution rule and allows a player to stay in game to HIT
Next they’ll place ghost runners on 2nd in extra innings, mandate relievers stay in game to face 3 hitters……
Perhaps the Cardinals should be allowed to use Scott as the ghost runner to start every extra inning, while also permitting him to play CF all game long.
After all, he is their best CF/pinch-runner "2-way player".....
Why shouldn't he have a special rule to benefit just him and just his team....
So the SAME Player is removed from his position(game), but continues to “DH”…….because he was originally DHing for himself??? Now how does one DH for himself???
The most dominant performance for me while not in one day was when USA Olympic swimmer Mark Spitz won 7 gold medals in 8 days with every one of them just not 1st place but also in world record time. 4 were individual events with 3 as team relays. That was in 1972 .
Setting world records in multiple swimming stroke events was truly phenomenal.
The one I would dislike most is that the Dodgers get to carry 14 pitchers while everyone else is limited to 13. They get 9 relievers in all 162 games. IMHO, Ohtani should count as a pitcher and the Dodgers should get an extra bench player. The whole point of limiting teams to 13 pitchers was about limiting pitching changes. The fact that Ohtani can hit should not give them a pitching advantage in all 162 games. It should give them a hitting advantage (one extra bench guy).
I can live with the Dodgers starting the game without a DH but then getting to start using one after Ohtani stops pitching. That affects only the games when Ohtani is the starting pitcher. This one is kind of iffy but I can live with it.
Last edited by cardstatman on 18 Oct 2025 15:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Goldfan wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 14:25 pm
I haven’t been following this much but very intrigued now.
What was the official designation for Ohtani when the game started?
Did the Dodgers have a DH in the lineup to start the game?
And MLB actually distorts the substitution rule and allows a player to stay in game to HIT
Next they’ll place ghost runners on 2nd in extra innings, mandate relievers stay in game to face 3 hitters……
Perhaps the Cardinals should be allowed to use Scott as the ghost runner to start every extra inning, while also permitting him to play CF all game long.
After all, he is their best CF/pinch-runner "2-way player".....
Why shouldn't he have a special rule to benefit just him and just his team....
maybe when you are in the bathroom and on your phone you should be thinking about your co-workers making all those sandwiches without you
cardstatman wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
I'm not too cool with the Ohtani rules.
The one I dislike most is that the Dodgers get to carry 14 pitchers while everyone else is limited to 13. They get 9 relievers in all 162 games. IMHO, Ohtani should count as a pitcher and the Dodgers should get an extra bench player. The whole point of limiting teams to 13 pitchers was about limiting pitching changes. The fact that Ohtani can hit should not give them a pitching advantage in all 162 games. It should give them a hitting advantage (one extra bench guy).
I can live with the Dodgers starting the game without a DH but then getting to start using one after Ohtani stops pitching. That affects only the games when Ohtani is the starting pitcher. This one is kind of iffy but I can live with it.
Is that how it works, Dodgers start without DH and Ohtani is listed as Pitcher? So he never really leaves the game just switches positions?
Goldfan wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 14:25 pm
I haven’t been following this much but very intrigued now.
What was the official designation for Ohtani when the game started?
Did the Dodgers have a DH in the lineup to start the game?
And MLB actually distorts the substitution rule and allows a player to stay in game to HIT
Next they’ll place ghost runners on 2nd in extra innings, mandate relievers stay in game to face 3 hitters……
Perhaps the Cardinals should be allowed to use Scott as the ghost runner to start every extra inning, while also permitting him to play CF all game long.
After all, he is their best CF/pinch-runner "2-way player".....
Why shouldn't he have a special rule to benefit just him and just his team....
So the SAME Player is removed from his position(game), but continues to “DH”…….because he was originally DHing for himself??? Now how does one DH for himself???
Yep.
"Now hitting for pitcher Ohtani....and leading off the bottom of the first is Ohtani - and it is a homerun."
"Pitcher Ohtani has been removed from the game."
"Now hitting for reliever Vesia...is Ohtani who has returned to the game - and it is a homerun!"
Heck, why not let him return yet again in the 9th inning as the closer???
He could get the win, the home runs, AND the save!!!
Perhaps I should not type that.
MLB would certainly seriously consider it.
cardstatman wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
I'm not too cool with the Ohtani rules.
The one I dislike most is that the Dodgers get to carry 14 pitchers while everyone else is limited to 13. They get 9 relievers in all 162 games. IMHO, Ohtani should count as a pitcher and the Dodgers should get an extra bench player. The whole point of limiting teams to 13 pitchers was about limiting pitching changes. The fact that Ohtani can hit should not give them a pitching advantage in all 162 games. It should give them a hitting advantage (one extra bench guy).
I can live with the Dodgers starting the game without a DH but then getting to start using one after Ohtani stops pitching. That affects only the games when Ohtani is the starting pitcher. This one is kind of iffy but I can live with it.
Is that how it works, Dodgers start without DH and Ohtani is listed as Pitcher? So he never really leaves the game just switches positions?
Yes, he pitches but he doesn't count as one of their 13 pitchers. Not fair.
If he's a 2-way player, he should count as a pitcher because that's what being a 2-way player means.
Teams are allowed to have more than 13 hitters on their roster. So the Dodgers should go with 14 hitters and 13 pitchers on their 26-man roster.
cardstatman wrote: ↑18 Oct 2025 15:00 pm
I'm not too cool with the Ohtani rules.
The one I dislike most is that the Dodgers get to carry 14 pitchers while everyone else is limited to 13. They get 9 relievers in all 162 games. IMHO, Ohtani should count as a pitcher and the Dodgers should get an extra bench player. The whole point of limiting teams to 13 pitchers was about limiting pitching changes. The fact that Ohtani can hit should not give them a pitching advantage in all 162 games. It should give them a hitting advantage (one extra bench guy).
I can live with the Dodgers starting the game without a DH but then getting to start using one after Ohtani stops pitching. That affects only the games when Ohtani is the starting pitcher. This one is kind of iffy but I can live with it.
Is that how it works, Dodgers start without DH and Ohtani is listed as Pitcher? So he never really leaves the game just switches positions?
Yes, he pitches but he doesn't count as one of their 13 pitchers. Not fair.
If he's a 2-way player, he should count as a pitcher because that's what being a 2-way player means.
Teams are allowed to have more than 13 hitters on their roster. So the Dodgers should go with 14 hitters and 13 pitchers on their 26-man roster.
I was questioning whether Ohtani is officially listed as a P or DH when game is started? Trying to figure out what pretzel MLB attempts to navigate with him staying in as DH.
1. He starts games as DH(For himself…..which completely negates the designation of DH) and then somehow just continues as DH even though he’s remove from his field position.
2. He starts game as a P and then changes positions to DH to stay in the game….???
