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Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:14 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 06:48 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:25 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:19 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:06 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:56 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:50 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:36 pm to winning in October. And lots of them.

Snell has always been pretty good in the playoffs, but now he's dominating, and going deep into games. He's won 5 straight playoff starts.

And Freddie Freeman, who had the GWRBI HR tonight - was playing in his 69th career playoff game.

When if ever, will our cheap homegrown roster have that kind of playoff experience?

They won’t. It will take them 2-3 years of development to be good enough to even make the playoffs, then a few years of taking their lumps as they gain playoff experience, then it will be time to trade them for…more great prospects!

And the hyperventilating prospect geek fraternity will fall in love with the “next big thing” kids and celebrate BDW being able to save so much money. They love that [shirt] more than winning the WS. TLR and Whitey realized kids don’t win championships.

Even if the team hits big on a handful of their picks, they’ll still need to supplement with good free agents or they’re going nowhere for the rest of this decade. They need to get their [shirt] together on international scouting too.

Well it certainly beats trying to build a team with guys like miles mikolas and Eric fedde and old pitchers like lance lynn and Kyle Gibson

Who said we should sign those guys? Never should’ve in the first place. The new alternative isn’t much better though…perpetually hoping in kids that are just happy to be in the bigs. The new Rays.

Well what is your solution you’re apparently against them fixing the development system and prefer them producing guys like Carlson and Gorman and guys that suck they can’t spend like the dodgers anyone that thinks they can are delusional so what’s your grand plan?

Why do you keep bringing up the [shirt]ty prospects they obviously missed on? You’re just reinforcing my point. And way to put words in my mouth about being “against fixing the development system”.

I’ve consistently said the team needs to build a foundation through the draft, but when they miss, as the Cardinals do so often, the price is occasional (over)payment in free agency to field a good product. A good foundation alone will not win a championship.

They don’t need Dodger money to pick up some quality free agents. They (drat) sure don’t have anyone internal worth extending. If Bloom is given what Mo had, a 190-220 million payroll they can and should add some quality. But they won’t, so rest easy, BDW will save plenty of money and you’ll have plenty of kids to cheer for. During the regular season anyway.

lol it will bear rooting for old arenado and fedde and mikolas. I don’t know why you’re so upset I’m not the one who decided to fix the broken development system I just agree with it I guess you want me to be as outraged as you are but I’m not

The guy's wanting to spend on this team arent looking at the big picture. Going back to a 200 mil payroll doesn't transform this roster into a contender. 80-83 wins is what it buys. And we know they aren't going to 300. If 27 doesn't happen and in 28 those guys are gone anyway you are back in the shape you are now. Bite the bullet and fix the mess so that 200 mil spent strategically actually buys you a contending team.

That's (bleep). How do you know what signing some key FAs and some trades for next year's roster would bring? You magically know how many wins that gives us?

Nothing against developing some goos young talent, but not spending money in FA makes no sense at all.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:50 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:24 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:30 am But if we can get a (higher paid) 30 yo OFer this offseason who can be here for say 4 years or more - that kind of move and others like it can set us up for both planned windows 2+ years in the future And possibly get us a few extra wins to get the younger part of our roster some valuable playoff experience even before that "window" is fully open, if you want to look at it that way.

Here's the list of OFs who have signed for 4+ yrs. in the past five offseasons:

2025 - J. Soto, age 26, 15 yrs./$765 million
2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million
2024 - J. H. Lee, age 25, 6 yrs./$113 million
2023 - A. Judge, age 31, 9 yrs./$360 million
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million
2023 - M. Yoshida, age 29, 5 yrs./$90 million
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million
2022 - S. Suzuki, age 27, 5 yrs./$85 million
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million

Assuming we're not talking about signing a Soto or Judge, or someone without MLB experience, that reduces to:

2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million - 1 yr./-0.9 fWAR
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million - 3 yrs./10 fWAR
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million - 3 yrs./-0.2 fWAR
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million - 4 yrs./0.7 fWAR
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million - 4 yrs./4.5 fWAR
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million - 4 yrs./11.3 fWAR
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million - 3 yrs./-1.4 fWAR (not in MLB in 2025)
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million - 5 yrs./14.8 fWAR
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million - 5 yrs./8.6 fWAR

How many of those contracts do you like? Only about three good contracts (Nimmo, Schwarber, Springer) out of all of them, and even Springer at $25 million AAV is iffy. Not a very good hit rate for what you are describing.

C. Bellinger (29 HR/98 RBI/5 bWAR) would fit his description and be a huge upgrade in CF.

Unfortunately BDWJr won't spend the money nor will he (likely) sign for four years.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:10 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:50 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:24 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:30 am But if we can get a (higher paid) 30 yo OFer this offseason who can be here for say 4 years or more - that kind of move and others like it can set us up for both planned windows 2+ years in the future And possibly get us a few extra wins to get the younger part of our roster some valuable playoff experience even before that "window" is fully open, if you want to look at it that way.

Here's the list of OFs who have signed for 4+ yrs. in the past five offseasons:

2025 - J. Soto, age 26, 15 yrs./$765 million
2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million
2024 - J. H. Lee, age 25, 6 yrs./$113 million
2023 - A. Judge, age 31, 9 yrs./$360 million
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million
2023 - M. Yoshida, age 29, 5 yrs./$90 million
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million
2022 - S. Suzuki, age 27, 5 yrs./$85 million
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million

Assuming we're not talking about signing a Soto or Judge, or someone without MLB experience, that reduces to:

2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million - 1 yr./-0.9 fWAR
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million - 3 yrs./10 fWAR
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million - 3 yrs./-0.2 fWAR
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million - 4 yrs./0.7 fWAR
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million - 4 yrs./4.5 fWAR
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million - 4 yrs./11.3 fWAR
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million - 3 yrs./-1.4 fWAR (not in MLB in 2025)
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million - 5 yrs./14.8 fWAR
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million - 5 yrs./8.6 fWAR

How many of those contracts do you like? Only about three good contracts (Nimmo, Schwarber, Springer) out of all of them, and even Springer at $25 million AAV is iffy. Not a very good hit rate for what you are describing.

C. Bellinger (29 HR/98 RBI/5 bWAR) would fit his description and be a huge upgrade in CF.

Unfortunately BDWJr won't spend the money nor will he (likely) sign for four years.

Even if you add Bellinger, the chance of you getting a player with that profile who is going to be even decent over the course of the contract is less than 50-50.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:52 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:50 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:24 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:30 am But if we can get a (higher paid) 30 yo OFer this offseason who can be here for say 4 years or more - that kind of move and others like it can set us up for both planned windows 2+ years in the future And possibly get us a few extra wins to get the younger part of our roster some valuable playoff experience even before that "window" is fully open, if you want to look at it that way.

Here's the list of OFs who have signed for 4+ yrs. in the past five offseasons:

2025 - J. Soto, age 26, 15 yrs./$765 million
2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million
2024 - J. H. Lee, age 25, 6 yrs./$113 million
2023 - A. Judge, age 31, 9 yrs./$360 million
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million
2023 - M. Yoshida, age 29, 5 yrs./$90 million
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million
2022 - S. Suzuki, age 27, 5 yrs./$85 million
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million

Assuming we're not talking about signing a Soto or Judge, or someone without MLB experience, that reduces to:

2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million - 1 yr./-0.9 fWAR
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million - 3 yrs./10 fWAR
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million - 3 yrs./-0.2 fWAR
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million - 4 yrs./0.7 fWAR
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million - 4 yrs./4.5 fWAR
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million - 4 yrs./11.3 fWAR
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million - 3 yrs./-1.4 fWAR (not in MLB in 2025)
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million - 5 yrs./14.8 fWAR
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million - 5 yrs./8.6 fWAR

How many of those contracts do you like? Only about three good contracts (Nimmo, Schwarber, Springer) out of all of them, and even Springer at $25 million AAV is iffy. Not a very good hit rate for what you are describing.

C. Bellinger (29 HR/98 RBI/5 bWAR) would fit his description and be a huge upgrade in CF.

Unfortunately BDWJr won't spend the money nor will he (likely) sign for four years.

Trent Gresham wouldn't cost near as much as Cody and is still a huge upgrade.

Sometimes you just need to strike when the FAs or trades are available and not wait until what the blueprint says is the perfect moment because they might not be there then (and some other team is reaping the benefits and has become that much harder to beat). The fact that there are at least 3 FA CFers (Bellenger, Gresham, Bader) and more available this season in trade is very good for buyers.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:05 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:01 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:00 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:41 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:36 pm to winning in October. And lots of them.

Snell has always been pretty good in the playoffs, but now he's dominating, and going deep into games. He's won 5 straight playoff starts.

And Freddie Freeman, who had the GWRBI HR tonight - was playing in his 69th career playoff game.

When if ever, will our cheap homegrown roster have that kind of playoff experience?

Cardinals are going to have to build a team good enough for them to make the post season to get experience they aren’t going to be able to sign every other teams best players for hundreds of millions of dollars

And you think they’ll keep the ones they drafted that excel? If they’re that good, they too will cost hundreds of millions.

Sign them to extensions early. And I don’t get your complaint you’re seriously complaining about them developing good players lol I guess you would prefer them to continue players like Dylan Carlson and Nolan Gorman who suck lol I can’t wrap my head around people whining about them fixing a broken development system that will produce good players instead of the trash they’ve been producing

Which ones do you extend? 80% of the board says to trade Donovan for yet more unexperienced prospects, yet He and Helsley are the biggest success stories our farm has produced in quite a while.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 14:06 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:52 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:50 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:24 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:30 am But if we can get a (higher paid) 30 yo OFer this offseason who can be here for say 4 years or more - that kind of move and others like it can set us up for both planned windows 2+ years in the future And possibly get us a few extra wins to get the younger part of our roster some valuable playoff experience even before that "window" is fully open, if you want to look at it that way.

Here's the list of OFs who have signed for 4+ yrs. in the past five offseasons:

2025 - J. Soto, age 26, 15 yrs./$765 million
2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million
2024 - J. H. Lee, age 25, 6 yrs./$113 million
2023 - A. Judge, age 31, 9 yrs./$360 million
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million
2023 - M. Yoshida, age 29, 5 yrs./$90 million
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million
2022 - S. Suzuki, age 27, 5 yrs./$85 million
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million

Assuming we're not talking about signing a Soto or Judge, or someone without MLB experience, that reduces to:

2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million - 1 yr./-0.9 fWAR
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million - 3 yrs./10 fWAR
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million - 3 yrs./-0.2 fWAR
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million - 4 yrs./0.7 fWAR
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million - 4 yrs./4.5 fWAR
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million - 4 yrs./11.3 fWAR
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million - 3 yrs./-1.4 fWAR (not in MLB in 2025)
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million - 5 yrs./14.8 fWAR
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million - 5 yrs./8.6 fWAR

How many of those contracts do you like? Only about three good contracts (Nimmo, Schwarber, Springer) out of all of them, and even Springer at $25 million AAV is iffy. Not a very good hit rate for what you are describing.

C. Bellinger (29 HR/98 RBI/5 bWAR) would fit his description and be a huge upgrade in CF.

Unfortunately BDWJr won't spend the money nor will he (likely) sign for four years.

Trent Gresham wouldn't cost near as much as Cody and is still a huge upgrade.

Sometimes you just need to strike when the FAs or trades are available and not wait until what the blueprint says is the perfect moment because they might not be there then (and some other team is reaping the benefits and has become that much harder to beat). The fact that there are at least 3 FA CFers (Bellenger, Gresham, Bader) and more available this season in trade is very good for buyers.

Not sure I'm buying into Harry.........been there, seen that..........NO THANKS!

2ninr wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:44 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:14 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 06:48 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:25 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:19 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:06 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:56 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:50 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:36 pm to winning in October. And lots of them.

Snell has always been pretty good in the playoffs, but now he's dominating, and going deep into games. He's won 5 straight playoff starts.

And Freddie Freeman, who had the GWRBI HR tonight - was playing in his 69th career playoff game.

When if ever, will our cheap homegrown roster have that kind of playoff experience?

They won’t. It will take them 2-3 years of development to be good enough to even make the playoffs, then a few years of taking their lumps as they gain playoff experience, then it will be time to trade them for…more great prospects!

And the hyperventilating prospect geek fraternity will fall in love with the “next big thing” kids and celebrate BDW being able to save so much money. They love that [shirt] more than winning the WS. TLR and Whitey realized kids don’t win championships.

Even if the team hits big on a handful of their picks, they’ll still need to supplement with good free agents or they’re going nowhere for the rest of this decade. They need to get their [shirt] together on international scouting too.

Well it certainly beats trying to build a team with guys like miles mikolas and Eric fedde and old pitchers like lance lynn and Kyle Gibson

Who said we should sign those guys? Never should’ve in the first place. The new alternative isn’t much better though…perpetually hoping in kids that are just happy to be in the bigs. The new Rays.

Well what is your solution you’re apparently against them fixing the development system and prefer them producing guys like Carlson and Gorman and guys that suck they can’t spend like the dodgers anyone that thinks they can are delusional so what’s your grand plan?

Why do you keep bringing up the [shirt]ty prospects they obviously missed on? You’re just reinforcing my point. And way to put words in my mouth about being “against fixing the development system”.

I’ve consistently said the team needs to build a foundation through the draft, but when they miss, as the Cardinals do so often, the price is occasional (over)payment in free agency to field a good product. A good foundation alone will not win a championship.

They don’t need Dodger money to pick up some quality free agents. They (drat) sure don’t have anyone internal worth extending. If Bloom is given what Mo had, a 190-220 million payroll they can and should add some quality. But they won’t, so rest easy, BDW will save plenty of money and you’ll have plenty of kids to cheer for. During the regular season anyway.

lol it will bear rooting for old arenado and fedde and mikolas. I don’t know why you’re so upset I’m not the one who decided to fix the broken development system I just agree with it I guess you want me to be as outraged as you are but I’m not

The guy's wanting to spend on this team arent looking at the big picture. Going back to a 200 mil payroll doesn't transform this roster into a contender. 80-83 wins is what it buys. And we know they aren't going to 300. If 27 doesn't happen and in 28 those guys are gone anyway you are back in the shape you are now. Bite the bullet and fix the mess so that 200 mil spent strategically actually buys you a contending team.

That's (bleep). How do you know what signing some key FAs and some trades for next year's roster would bring? You magically know how many wins that gives us?

Nothing against developing some goos young talent, but not spending money in FA makes no sense at all.

I won't disrespect your opinions like you did mine. But not spending money in fa makes sense to a lot of people. And trust me I have no interest in saving Bill money.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 20:44 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:44 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:14 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 06:48 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:25 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:19 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:06 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:56 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:50 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:36 pm to winning in October. And lots of them.

Snell has always been pretty good in the playoffs, but now he's dominating, and going deep into games. He's won 5 straight playoff starts.

And Freddie Freeman, who had the GWRBI HR tonight - was playing in his 69th career playoff game.

When if ever, will our cheap homegrown roster have that kind of playoff experience?

They won’t. It will take them 2-3 years of development to be good enough to even make the playoffs, then a few years of taking their lumps as they gain playoff experience, then it will be time to trade them for…more great prospects!

And the hyperventilating prospect geek fraternity will fall in love with the “next big thing” kids and celebrate BDW being able to save so much money. They love that [shirt] more than winning the WS. TLR and Whitey realized kids don’t win championships.

Even if the team hits big on a handful of their picks, they’ll still need to supplement with good free agents or they’re going nowhere for the rest of this decade. They need to get their [shirt] together on international scouting too.

Well it certainly beats trying to build a team with guys like miles mikolas and Eric fedde and old pitchers like lance lynn and Kyle Gibson

Who said we should sign those guys? Never should’ve in the first place. The new alternative isn’t much better though…perpetually hoping in kids that are just happy to be in the bigs. The new Rays.

Well what is your solution you’re apparently against them fixing the development system and prefer them producing guys like Carlson and Gorman and guys that suck they can’t spend like the dodgers anyone that thinks they can are delusional so what’s your grand plan?

Why do you keep bringing up the [shirt]ty prospects they obviously missed on? You’re just reinforcing my point. And way to put words in my mouth about being “against fixing the development system”.

I’ve consistently said the team needs to build a foundation through the draft, but when they miss, as the Cardinals do so often, the price is occasional (over)payment in free agency to field a good product. A good foundation alone will not win a championship.

They don’t need Dodger money to pick up some quality free agents. They (drat) sure don’t have anyone internal worth extending. If Bloom is given what Mo had, a 190-220 million payroll they can and should add some quality. But they won’t, so rest easy, BDW will save plenty of money and you’ll have plenty of kids to cheer for. During the regular season anyway.

lol it will bear rooting for old arenado and fedde and mikolas. I don’t know why you’re so upset I’m not the one who decided to fix the broken development system I just agree with it I guess you want me to be as outraged as you are but I’m not

The guy's wanting to spend on this team arent looking at the big picture. Going back to a 200 mil payroll doesn't transform this roster into a contender. 80-83 wins is what it buys. And we know they aren't going to 300. If 27 doesn't happen and in 28 those guys are gone anyway you are back in the shape you are now. Bite the bullet and fix the mess so that 200 mil spent strategically actually buys you a contending team.

That's (bleep). How do you know what signing some key FAs and some trades for next year's roster would bring? You magically know how many wins that gives us?

Nothing against developing some goos young talent, but not spending money in FA makes no sense at all.

I won't disrespect your opinions like you did mine. But not spending money in fa makes sense to a lot of people. And trust me I have no interest in saving Bill money.

Sorry, meant no disrespect. Just asking how you know how many wins we are going to get by adding unnamed FAs?

You are going to have to spend money. Good ballplayer cost money. Bottom line. Sure we may never get a Soto or Ohtani contract, but we can afford to spend on some guys. Cardinals aren't magically poor all of a sudden. I'm not against developing players, but we aren't going to develop (by itself) our way to a WS.

2ninr wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 05:57 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 20:44 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:44 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:14 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 06:48 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:25 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:19 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:06 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 00:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:56 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:50 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:36 pm to winning in October. And lots of them.

Snell has always been pretty good in the playoffs, but now he's dominating, and going deep into games. He's won 5 straight playoff starts.

And Freddie Freeman, who had the GWRBI HR tonight - was playing in his 69th career playoff game.

When if ever, will our cheap homegrown roster have that kind of playoff experience?

They won’t. It will take them 2-3 years of development to be good enough to even make the playoffs, then a few years of taking their lumps as they gain playoff experience, then it will be time to trade them for…more great prospects!

And the hyperventilating prospect geek fraternity will fall in love with the “next big thing” kids and celebrate BDW being able to save so much money. They love that [shirt] more than winning the WS. TLR and Whitey realized kids don’t win championships.

Even if the team hits big on a handful of their picks, they’ll still need to supplement with good free agents or they’re going nowhere for the rest of this decade. They need to get their [shirt] together on international scouting too.

Well it certainly beats trying to build a team with guys like miles mikolas and Eric fedde and old pitchers like lance lynn and Kyle Gibson

Who said we should sign those guys? Never should’ve in the first place. The new alternative isn’t much better though…perpetually hoping in kids that are just happy to be in the bigs. The new Rays.

Well what is your solution you’re apparently against them fixing the development system and prefer them producing guys like Carlson and Gorman and guys that suck they can’t spend like the dodgers anyone that thinks they can are delusional so what’s your grand plan?

Why do you keep bringing up the [shirt]ty prospects they obviously missed on? You’re just reinforcing my point. And way to put words in my mouth about being “against fixing the development system”.

I’ve consistently said the team needs to build a foundation through the draft, but when they miss, as the Cardinals do so often, the price is occasional (over)payment in free agency to field a good product. A good foundation alone will not win a championship.

They don’t need Dodger money to pick up some quality free agents. They (drat) sure don’t have anyone internal worth extending. If Bloom is given what Mo had, a 190-220 million payroll they can and should add some quality. But they won’t, so rest easy, BDW will save plenty of money and you’ll have plenty of kids to cheer for. During the regular season anyway.

lol it will bear rooting for old arenado and fedde and mikolas. I don’t know why you’re so upset I’m not the one who decided to fix the broken development system I just agree with it I guess you want me to be as outraged as you are but I’m not

The guy's wanting to spend on this team arent looking at the big picture. Going back to a 200 mil payroll doesn't transform this roster into a contender. 80-83 wins is what it buys. And we know they aren't going to 300. If 27 doesn't happen and in 28 those guys are gone anyway you are back in the shape you are now. Bite the bullet and fix the mess so that 200 mil spent strategically actually buys you a contending team.

That's (bleep). How do you know what signing some key FAs and some trades for next year's roster would bring? You magically know how many wins that gives us?

Nothing against developing some goos young talent, but not spending money in FA makes no sense at all.

I won't disrespect your opinions like you did mine. But not spending money in fa makes sense to a lot of people. And trust me I have no interest in saving Bill money.

Sorry, meant no disrespect. Just asking how you know how many wins we are going to get by adding unnamed FAs?

You are going to have to spend money. Good ballplayer cost money. Bottom line. Sure we may never get a Soto or Ohtani contract, but we can afford to spend on some guys. Cardinals aren't magically poor all of a sudden. I'm not against developing players, but we aren't going to develop (by itself) our way to a WS.

I agree 100%. The # of wins-thats a guess. This roster is really bad. Imo another 100 mil gets you a wildcard, whatever that takes. I just don't think it's going to get your 3 million fans back. That's going to take a division contending team
. Again, jmo, you need to trade these veteran players to collect prospects and give yourself a better chance of hitting on them. Than when your core is close, and they aren't right now, you spend on fa to fill your holes. And you spend on extending your prospects you hit on. Bad news (maybe it isn't) is you aren't ever going to be able to sign these megadeals for superstar free agents. There's a lot riding on the shoulders of Chaim Bloom. This is a brave new world compared to what we have been seeing.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 18:50 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 14:06 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:52 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:50 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:24 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:30 am But if we can get a (higher paid) 30 yo OFer this offseason who can be here for say 4 years or more - that kind of move and others like it can set us up for both planned windows 2+ years in the future And possibly get us a few extra wins to get the younger part of our roster some valuable playoff experience even before that "window" is fully open, if you want to look at it that way.

Here's the list of OFs who have signed for 4+ yrs. in the past five offseasons:

2025 - J. Soto, age 26, 15 yrs./$765 million
2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million
2024 - J. H. Lee, age 25, 6 yrs./$113 million
2023 - A. Judge, age 31, 9 yrs./$360 million
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million
2023 - M. Yoshida, age 29, 5 yrs./$90 million
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million
2022 - S. Suzuki, age 27, 5 yrs./$85 million
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million

Assuming we're not talking about signing a Soto or Judge, or someone without MLB experience, that reduces to:

2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million - 1 yr./-0.9 fWAR
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million - 3 yrs./10 fWAR
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million - 3 yrs./-0.2 fWAR
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million - 4 yrs./0.7 fWAR
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million - 4 yrs./4.5 fWAR
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million - 4 yrs./11.3 fWAR
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million - 3 yrs./-1.4 fWAR (not in MLB in 2025)
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million - 5 yrs./14.8 fWAR
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million - 5 yrs./8.6 fWAR

How many of those contracts do you like? Only about three good contracts (Nimmo, Schwarber, Springer) out of all of them, and even Springer at $25 million AAV is iffy. Not a very good hit rate for what you are describing.

C. Bellinger (29 HR/98 RBI/5 bWAR) would fit his description and be a huge upgrade in CF.

Unfortunately BDWJr won't spend the money nor will he (likely) sign for four years.

Trent Gresham wouldn't cost near as much as Cody and is still a huge upgrade.

Sometimes you just need to strike when the FAs or trades are available and not wait until what the blueprint says is the perfect moment because they might not be there then (and some other team is reaping the benefits and has become that much harder to beat). The fact that there are at least 3 FA CFers (Bellenger, Gresham, Bader) and more available this season in trade is very good for buyers.

Not sure I'm buying into Harry.........been there, seen that..........NO THANKS!

That’s fair. But someone will sign him which takes that team off the board for OFers and leaves us with less competition to bid up the price on others.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 08:38 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 18:50 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 14:06 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:52 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:50 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:24 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:30 am But if we can get a (higher paid) 30 yo OFer this offseason who can be here for say 4 years or more - that kind of move and others like it can set us up for both planned windows 2+ years in the future And possibly get us a few extra wins to get the younger part of our roster some valuable playoff experience even before that "window" is fully open, if you want to look at it that way.

Here's the list of OFs who have signed for 4+ yrs. in the past five offseasons:

2025 - J. Soto, age 26, 15 yrs./$765 million
2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million
2024 - J. H. Lee, age 25, 6 yrs./$113 million
2023 - A. Judge, age 31, 9 yrs./$360 million
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million
2023 - M. Yoshida, age 29, 5 yrs./$90 million
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million
2022 - S. Suzuki, age 27, 5 yrs./$85 million
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million

Assuming we're not talking about signing a Soto or Judge, or someone without MLB experience, that reduces to:

2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million - 1 yr./-0.9 fWAR
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million - 3 yrs./10 fWAR
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million - 3 yrs./-0.2 fWAR
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million - 4 yrs./0.7 fWAR
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million - 4 yrs./4.5 fWAR
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million - 4 yrs./11.3 fWAR
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million - 3 yrs./-1.4 fWAR (not in MLB in 2025)
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million - 5 yrs./14.8 fWAR
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million - 5 yrs./8.6 fWAR

How many of those contracts do you like? Only about three good contracts (Nimmo, Schwarber, Springer) out of all of them, and even Springer at $25 million AAV is iffy. Not a very good hit rate for what you are describing.

C. Bellinger (29 HR/98 RBI/5 bWAR) would fit his description and be a huge upgrade in CF.

Unfortunately BDWJr won't spend the money nor will he (likely) sign for four years.

Trent Gresham wouldn't cost near as much as Cody and is still a huge upgrade.

Sometimes you just need to strike when the FAs or trades are available and not wait until what the blueprint says is the perfect moment because they might not be there then (and some other team is reaping the benefits and has become that much harder to beat). The fact that there are at least 3 FA CFers (Bellenger, Gresham, Bader) and more available this season in trade is very good for buyers.

Not sure I'm buying into Harry.........been there, seen that..........NO THANKS!

That’s fair. But someone will sign him which takes that team off the board for OFers and leaves us with less competition to bid up the price on others.

Honestly carp I don't see BDWJr spending much in 2026 anyway, I look for him to open the wallet in 2027 after the new CBA is in place.

2ninr wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:06 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 08:38 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 18:50 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 14:06 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:52 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:50 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:24 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:30 am But if we can get a (higher paid) 30 yo OFer this offseason who can be here for say 4 years or more - that kind of move and others like it can set us up for both planned windows 2+ years in the future And possibly get us a few extra wins to get the younger part of our roster some valuable playoff experience even before that "window" is fully open, if you want to look at it that way.

Here's the list of OFs who have signed for 4+ yrs. in the past five offseasons:

2025 - J. Soto, age 26, 15 yrs./$765 million
2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million
2024 - J. H. Lee, age 25, 6 yrs./$113 million
2023 - A. Judge, age 31, 9 yrs./$360 million
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million
2023 - M. Yoshida, age 29, 5 yrs./$90 million
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million
2022 - S. Suzuki, age 27, 5 yrs./$85 million
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million

Assuming we're not talking about signing a Soto or Judge, or someone without MLB experience, that reduces to:

2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million - 1 yr./-0.9 fWAR
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million - 3 yrs./10 fWAR
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million - 3 yrs./-0.2 fWAR
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million - 4 yrs./0.7 fWAR
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million - 4 yrs./4.5 fWAR
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million - 4 yrs./11.3 fWAR
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million - 3 yrs./-1.4 fWAR (not in MLB in 2025)
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million - 5 yrs./14.8 fWAR
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million - 5 yrs./8.6 fWAR

How many of those contracts do you like? Only about three good contracts (Nimmo, Schwarber, Springer) out of all of them, and even Springer at $25 million AAV is iffy. Not a very good hit rate for what you are describing.

C. Bellinger (29 HR/98 RBI/5 bWAR) would fit his description and be a huge upgrade in CF.

Unfortunately BDWJr won't spend the money nor will he (likely) sign for four years.

Trent Gresham wouldn't cost near as much as Cody and is still a huge upgrade.

Sometimes you just need to strike when the FAs or trades are available and not wait until what the blueprint says is the perfect moment because they might not be there then (and some other team is reaping the benefits and has become that much harder to beat). The fact that there are at least 3 FA CFers (Bellenger, Gresham, Bader) and more available this season in trade is very good for buyers.

Not sure I'm buying into Harry.........been there, seen that..........NO THANKS!

That’s fair. But someone will sign him which takes that team off the board for OFers and leaves us with less competition to bid up the price on others.

Honestly carp I don't see BDWJr spending much in 2026 anyway, I look for him to open the wallet in 2027 after the new CBA is in place.

It only makes sense Rock. It's actually good timing. We get a couple years to get this horrific roster constructed in a way that makes sense. Than we fill the gaps with fa. I would be shocked if they don't go back to a top 1/3 payroll. I think the conflict is between fans who think you can fix this roster to win in 26, 27 and those who feel you need to build it mostly internally than spend.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:21 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:06 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 08:38 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 18:50 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 14:06 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:52 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:50 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:24 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:30 am But if we can get a (higher paid) 30 yo OFer this offseason who can be here for say 4 years or more - that kind of move and others like it can set us up for both planned windows 2+ years in the future And possibly get us a few extra wins to get the younger part of our roster some valuable playoff experience even before that "window" is fully open, if you want to look at it that way.

Here's the list of OFs who have signed for 4+ yrs. in the past five offseasons:

2025 - J. Soto, age 26, 15 yrs./$765 million
2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million
2024 - J. H. Lee, age 25, 6 yrs./$113 million
2023 - A. Judge, age 31, 9 yrs./$360 million
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million
2023 - M. Yoshida, age 29, 5 yrs./$90 million
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million
2022 - S. Suzuki, age 27, 5 yrs./$85 million
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million

Assuming we're not talking about signing a Soto or Judge, or someone without MLB experience, that reduces to:

2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million - 1 yr./-0.9 fWAR
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million - 3 yrs./10 fWAR
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million - 3 yrs./-0.2 fWAR
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million - 4 yrs./0.7 fWAR
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million - 4 yrs./4.5 fWAR
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million - 4 yrs./11.3 fWAR
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million - 3 yrs./-1.4 fWAR (not in MLB in 2025)
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million - 5 yrs./14.8 fWAR
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million - 5 yrs./8.6 fWAR

How many of those contracts do you like? Only about three good contracts (Nimmo, Schwarber, Springer) out of all of them, and even Springer at $25 million AAV is iffy. Not a very good hit rate for what you are describing.

C. Bellinger (29 HR/98 RBI/5 bWAR) would fit his description and be a huge upgrade in CF.

Unfortunately BDWJr won't spend the money nor will he (likely) sign for four years.

Trent Gresham wouldn't cost near as much as Cody and is still a huge upgrade.

Sometimes you just need to strike when the FAs or trades are available and not wait until what the blueprint says is the perfect moment because they might not be there then (and some other team is reaping the benefits and has become that much harder to beat). The fact that there are at least 3 FA CFers (Bellenger, Gresham, Bader) and more available this season in trade is very good for buyers.

Not sure I'm buying into Harry.........been there, seen that..........NO THANKS!

That’s fair. But someone will sign him which takes that team off the board for OFers and leaves us with less competition to bid up the price on others.

Honestly carp I don't see BDWJr spending much in 2026 anyway, I look for him to open the wallet in 2027 after the new CBA is in place.

It only makes sense Rock. It's actually good timing. We get a couple years to get this horrific roster constructed in a way that makes sense. Than we fill the gaps with fa. I would be shocked if they don't go back to a top 1/3 payroll. I think the conflict is between fans who think you can fix this roster to win in 26, 27 and those who feel you need to build it mostly internally than spend.

Agreed

Let C. Bloom remove the deadweight on the roster this winter/2026 season.

Then re-load through trades, free agent singings and ready prospects from the system after the new CBA is in place.

I'm really hopefully 2026 isn't the trainwreck (re: 90 loss) season too many think it's going to be so attendance doesn't fall too far.

If Bloom can make some smart moves via trades and "minor" free agent signings this winter, then I think they'll win 84+ games in 2026.

That plus the reek of the Mo regime gone (too bad Oli didn't go as well) could keep us at 2-2.5M.

Then after the new CBA is hammered out make a few bigger moves by upping the payroll and Dewitt could be back to 3+M by 2028 and the team in true contention.

2ninr wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 14:01 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:21 pm

2ninr wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 12:06 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑15 Oct 2025 08:38 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 18:50 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 14:06 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 13:52 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:50 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 12:24 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑14 Oct 2025 10:30 am But if we can get a (higher paid) 30 yo OFer this offseason who can be here for say 4 years or more - that kind of move and others like it can set us up for both planned windows 2+ years in the future And possibly get us a few extra wins to get the younger part of our roster some valuable playoff experience even before that "window" is fully open, if you want to look at it that way.

Here's the list of OFs who have signed for 4+ yrs. in the past five offseasons:

2025 - J. Soto, age 26, 15 yrs./$765 million
2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million
2024 - J. H. Lee, age 25, 6 yrs./$113 million
2023 - A. Judge, age 31, 9 yrs./$360 million
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million
2023 - M. Yoshida, age 29, 5 yrs./$90 million
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million
2022 - S. Suzuki, age 27, 5 yrs./$85 million
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million

Assuming we're not talking about signing a Soto or Judge, or someone without MLB experience, that reduces to:

2025 - A. Santander, age 30, 5 yrs./$92.5 million - 1 yr./-0.9 fWAR
2023 - B. Nimmo, age 30, 8 yrs./$162 million - 3 yrs./10 fWAR
2023 - A. Benintendi, age 28, 5 yrs./$75 million - 3 yrs./-0.2 fWAR
2022 - K. Bryant, age 30, 7 yrs./$182 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - N. Castellanos, age 30, 5 yrs./$100 million - 4 yrs./0.7 fWAR
2022 - S. Marte, age 33, 4 yrs./$78 million - 4 yrs./4.5 fWAR
2022 - C. Taylor, age 31, 4 yrs./$60 million - 4 yrs./-1.9 fWAR
2022 - K. Schwarber, age 29, 4 yrs./$79 million - 4 yrs./11.3 fWAR
2022 - A. Garcia, age 31, 4 yrs./$53 million - 3 yrs./-1.4 fWAR (not in MLB in 2025)
2021 - G. Springer, age 31, 6 yrs./$150 million - 5 yrs./14.8 fWAR
2021 - M. Ozuna, age 30, 5 yrs./$80 million - 5 yrs./8.6 fWAR

How many of those contracts do you like? Only about three good contracts (Nimmo, Schwarber, Springer) out of all of them, and even Springer at $25 million AAV is iffy. Not a very good hit rate for what you are describing.

C. Bellinger (29 HR/98 RBI/5 bWAR) would fit his description and be a huge upgrade in CF.

Unfortunately BDWJr won't spend the money nor will he (likely) sign for four years.

Trent Gresham wouldn't cost near as much as Cody and is still a huge upgrade.

Sometimes you just need to strike when the FAs or trades are available and not wait until what the blueprint says is the perfect moment because they might not be there then (and some other team is reaping the benefits and has become that much harder to beat). The fact that there are at least 3 FA CFers (Bellenger, Gresham, Bader) and more available this season in trade is very good for buyers.

Not sure I'm buying into Harry.........been there, seen that..........NO THANKS!

That’s fair. But someone will sign him which takes that team off the board for OFers and leaves us with less competition to bid up the price on others.

Honestly carp I don't see BDWJr spending much in 2026 anyway, I look for him to open the wallet in 2027 after the new CBA is in place.

It only makes sense Rock. It's actually good timing. We get a couple years to get this horrific roster constructed in a way that makes sense. Than we fill the gaps with fa. I would be shocked if they don't go back to a top 1/3 payroll. I think the conflict is between fans who think you can fix this roster to win in 26, 27 and those who feel you need to build it mostly internally than spend.

Agreed

Let C. Bloom remove the deadweight on the roster this winter/2026 season.

Then re-load through trades, free agent singings and ready prospects from the system after the new CBA is in place.

I'm really hopefully 2026 isn't the trainwreck (re: 90 loss) season too many think it's going to be so attendance doesn't fall too far.

If Bloom can make some smart moves via trades and "minor" free agent signings this winter, then I think they'll win 84+ games in 2026.

That plus the reek of the Mo regime gone (too bad Oli didn't go as well) could keep us at 2-2.5M.

Then after the new CBA is hammered out make a few bigger moves by upping the payroll and Dewitt could be back to 3+M by 2028 and the team in true contention.

Seeing that stadium full of screaming happy people is a big part of the fun.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:36 pm to winning in October. And lots of them.

Snell has always been pretty good in the playoffs, but now he's dominating, and going deep into games. He's won 5 straight playoff starts.

And Freddie Freeman, who had the GWRBI HR tonight - was playing in his 69th career playoff game.

When if ever, will our cheap homegrown roster have that kind of playoff experience?

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:50 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 23:36 pm to winning in October. And lots of them.

Snell has always been pretty good in the playoffs, but now he's dominating, and going deep into games. He's won 5 straight playoff starts.

And Freddie Freeman, who had the GWRBI HR tonight - was playing in his 69th career playoff game.

When if ever, will our cheap homegrown roster have that kind of playoff experience?

They won’t. It will take them 2-3 years of development to be good enough to even make the playoffs, then a few years of taking their lumps as they gain playoff experience, then it will be time to trade them for…more great prospects!

And the hyperventilating prospect geek fraternity will fall in love with the “next big thing” kids and celebrate BDW being able to save so much money. They love that [shirt] more than winning the WS. TLR and Whitey realized kids don’t win championships.

Even if the team hits big on a handful of their picks, they’ll still need to supplement with good free agents or they’re going nowhere for the rest of this decade. They need to get their [shirt] together on international scouting too.