STLtoday.com

Posted: **09 Oct 2025 20:54 pm**

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 17:20 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm
Bob Kunush wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 12:39 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 11:45 am
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 Oct 2025 12:02 pm Post Dispatch Ben Hochman had sit down with Cards Asst. GM Rob Cerfolio regarding how Cardinals under Chaim Bloom have already made big steps i improving the Cardinals.

Last year 'Cerf' as he is called said the club hired 20 new coaches/staff last offseason and will hire nearly that number again this year . Cerf said they did some recruiting to find the best teachers. They also invested in new technology like Hawk Eye, Pulse, and Catapult (see article )

Bloom Cerfolio and Larry Day have done a lot already to improve the organization for the long term.
The Pierpont hire to run the pitching side seems quite positive too.

In the article linked, Bloom during his sitdown with Cardinal writers said , 'I don't think any of you would have asked me about our 2022 No .2 pick Brycen Mautz ... Pierpont told Bloom last spring as they observed the kid in spring training , 'That kid is good !' Mautz went on to pitch well this year in Double A finishing 8-3 in 25 starts with a 2.98 ERA He started and won the Texas League title game for Springfield this year. Looks to pitch at Memphis in 2026 . Keep an eye out for him . Sounds to me like Pierpont has a good eye for pitching talent.

Link to full article :

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/column/ ... b6e7d.html
I think I'll reserve judgement until I actually see games played next year. This window dressing (bleep) might be something or it might be nothing. If it worked like that he wouldn't have gotten fired in Boston.
Another poster clueless as to why Bloom didnt work out in Boston. There are loads of articles out there on the sabotage that occurred to Bloom there if you wish to get more informed. But I am guessing it is hust easier to be negative amd complain.
Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo is the one who decided to sign players to stupid extensions and invest long term contracts into mediocre players. He also was very good at keeping the wrong players and continually going with them until they have next to no trade value. He was Also the master of doing the bare minimum to address the teams weaknesses. He was also apparently so traumatized by dealing with Larussa he was compelled to hire rookie managers who were yes men and just grateful to have a job after that

Most all of what you said is your conjecture. You don't know the inner workings and just assume he could have produced miracles. The Cards just spent two decades of low draft picks and winning seasons. Maybe he could have made trades to raise the level of talent and maybe he tried, but it takes two to tango. When he did make a trade or signing a lot of them backfired spectacularly. Ozuna was an all-star every day player, highly coveted by a lot of teams. He played very well in Miami. If he had produced similarly in St Louis the trade would be viewed as a lot more positive one. How in the hell could anyone know he'd tank so badly in a Cards uniform? As if turns out, his faith in TO was misplaced and he should have went with Arozarena. But then again, TO had more talent and I think was even younger. On the surface it was actually looking like a no brainer to play TO the lion share of the time. So many trades aren't viewed through the prism of the time they were transacted. I was okay with Brett Cecil signing, until I wasn't. And I was far from alone. I was okay with the Ozuna trade, until I wasn't. I felt like TO had all the talent and promise to be a superstar, until he wasn't. Hindsight is 20/20.

Posted: **09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm**

CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm
Bob Kunush wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 12:39 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 11:45 am
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 Oct 2025 12:02 pm Post Dispatch Ben Hochman had sit down with Cards Asst. GM Rob Cerfolio regarding how Cardinals under Chaim Bloom have already made big steps i improving the Cardinals.

Last year 'Cerf' as he is called said the club hired 20 new coaches/staff last offseason and will hire nearly that number again this year . Cerf said they did some recruiting to find the best teachers. They also invested in new technology like Hawk Eye, Pulse, and Catapult (see article )

Bloom Cerfolio and Larry Day have done a lot already to improve the organization for the long term.
The Pierpont hire to run the pitching side seems quite positive too.

In the article linked, Bloom during his sitdown with Cardinal writers said , 'I don't think any of you would have asked me about our 2022 No .2 pick Brycen Mautz ... Pierpont told Bloom last spring as they observed the kid in spring training , 'That kid is good !' Mautz went on to pitch well this year in Double A finishing 8-3 in 25 starts with a 2.98 ERA He started and won the Texas League title game for Springfield this year. Looks to pitch at Memphis in 2026 . Keep an eye out for him . Sounds to me like Pierpont has a good eye for pitching talent.

Link to full article :

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/column/ ... b6e7d.html
I think I'll reserve judgement until I actually see games played next year. This window dressing (bleep) might be something or it might be nothing. If it worked like that he wouldn't have gotten fired in Boston.
Another poster clueless as to why Bloom didnt work out in Boston. There are loads of articles out there on the sabotage that occurred to Bloom there if you wish to get more informed. But I am guessing it is hust easier to be negative amd complain.
Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.

Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 08:01 am**

BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm
Bob Kunush wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 12:39 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 11:45 am
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 Oct 2025 12:02 pm Post Dispatch Ben Hochman had sit down with Cards Asst. GM Rob Cerfolio regarding how Cardinals under Chaim Bloom have already made big steps i improving the Cardinals.

Last year 'Cerf' as he is called said the club hired 20 new coaches/staff last offseason and will hire nearly that number again this year . Cerf said they did some recruiting to find the best teachers. They also invested in new technology like Hawk Eye, Pulse, and Catapult (see article )

Bloom Cerfolio and Larry Day have done a lot already to improve the organization for the long term.
The Pierpont hire to run the pitching side seems quite positive too.

In the article linked, Bloom during his sitdown with Cardinal writers said , 'I don't think any of you would have asked me about our 2022 No .2 pick Brycen Mautz ... Pierpont told Bloom last spring as they observed the kid in spring training , 'That kid is good !' Mautz went on to pitch well this year in Double A finishing 8-3 in 25 starts with a 2.98 ERA He started and won the Texas League title game for Springfield this year. Looks to pitch at Memphis in 2026 . Keep an eye out for him . Sounds to me like Pierpont has a good eye for pitching talent.

Link to full article :

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/column/ ... b6e7d.html
I think I'll reserve judgement until I actually see games played next year. This window dressing (bleep) might be something or it might be nothing. If it worked like that he wouldn't have gotten fired in Boston.
Another poster clueless as to why Bloom didnt work out in Boston. There are loads of articles out there on the sabotage that occurred to Bloom there if you wish to get more informed. But I am guessing it is hust easier to be negative amd complain.
Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.

You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 08:10 am**

CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 20:54 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 17:20 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm
Bob Kunush wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 12:39 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 11:45 am
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 Oct 2025 12:02 pm Post Dispatch Ben Hochman had sit down with Cards Asst. GM Rob Cerfolio regarding how Cardinals under Chaim Bloom have already made big steps i improving the Cardinals.

Last year 'Cerf' as he is called said the club hired 20 new coaches/staff last offseason and will hire nearly that number again this year . Cerf said they did some recruiting to find the best teachers. They also invested in new technology like Hawk Eye, Pulse, and Catapult (see article )

Bloom Cerfolio and Larry Day have done a lot already to improve the organization for the long term.
The Pierpont hire to run the pitching side seems quite positive too.

In the article linked, Bloom during his sitdown with Cardinal writers said , 'I don't think any of you would have asked me about our 2022 No .2 pick Brycen Mautz ... Pierpont told Bloom last spring as they observed the kid in spring training , 'That kid is good !' Mautz went on to pitch well this year in Double A finishing 8-3 in 25 starts with a 2.98 ERA He started and won the Texas League title game for Springfield this year. Looks to pitch at Memphis in 2026 . Keep an eye out for him . Sounds to me like Pierpont has a good eye for pitching talent.

Link to full article :

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/column/ ... b6e7d.html
I think I'll reserve judgement until I actually see games played next year. This window dressing (bleep) might be something or it might be nothing. If it worked like that he wouldn't have gotten fired in Boston.
Another poster clueless as to why Bloom didnt work out in Boston. There are loads of articles out there on the sabotage that occurred to Bloom there if you wish to get more informed. But I am guessing it is hust easier to be negative amd complain.
Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo is the one who decided to sign players to stupid extensions and invest long term contracts into mediocre players. He also was very good at keeping the wrong players and continually going with them until they have next to no trade value. He was Also the master of doing the bare minimum to address the teams weaknesses. He was also apparently so traumatized by dealing with Larussa he was compelled to hire rookie managers who were yes men and just grateful to have a job after that
Most all of what you said is your conjecture. You don't know the inner workings and just assume he could have produced miracles. The Cards just spent two decades of low draft picks and winning seasons. Maybe he could have made trades to raise the level of talent and maybe he tried, but it takes two to tango. When he did make a trade or signing a lot of them backfired spectacularly. Ozuna was an all-star every day player, highly coveted by a lot of teams. He played very well in Miami. If he had produced similarly in St Louis the trade would be viewed as a lot more positive one. How in the hell could anyone know he'd tank so badly in a Cards uniform? As if turns out, his faith in TO was misplaced and he should have went with Arozarena. But then again, TO had more talent and I think was even younger. On the surface it was actually looking like a no brainer to play TO the lion share of the time. So many trades aren't viewed through the prism of the time they were transacted. I was okay with Brett Cecil signing, until I wasn't. And I was far from alone. I was okay with the Ozuna trade, until I wasn't. I felt like TO had all the talent and promise to be a superstar, until he wasn't. Hindsight is 20/20.

Of course you were okay with the Ozuna trade. You didn't have the insight that MO and his team should've have had.

And a GM can be a huge TO fan, and still keep, for example, Randy on the team.

There is a saying, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."

ONeill had a .723 OPS and was injured two or three times in 2019. In the following 6 seasons, he's had a .715 OPS or below 4 times, and on the injured list countless times.

A good GM can still keep TO, give him a big chunk of PT, but still hang onto Randy to see what happens.

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 09:38 am**

ecleme22 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:10 am
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 20:54 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 17:20 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm
Bob Kunush wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 12:39 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 11:45 am

I think I'll reserve judgement until I actually see games played next year. This window dressing (bleep) might be something or it might be nothing. If it worked like that he wouldn't have gotten fired in Boston.
Another poster clueless as to why Bloom didnt work out in Boston. There are loads of articles out there on the sabotage that occurred to Bloom there if you wish to get more informed. But I am guessing it is hust easier to be negative amd complain.
Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo is the one who decided to sign players to stupid extensions and invest long term contracts into mediocre players. He also was very good at keeping the wrong players and continually going with them until they have next to no trade value. He was Also the master of doing the bare minimum to address the teams weaknesses. He was also apparently so traumatized by dealing with Larussa he was compelled to hire rookie managers who were yes men and just grateful to have a job after that
Most all of what you said is your conjecture. You don't know the inner workings and just assume he could have produced miracles. The Cards just spent two decades of low draft picks and winning seasons. Maybe he could have made trades to raise the level of talent and maybe he tried, but it takes two to tango. When he did make a trade or signing a lot of them backfired spectacularly. Ozuna was an all-star every day player, highly coveted by a lot of teams. He played very well in Miami. If he had produced similarly in St Louis the trade would be viewed as a lot more positive one. How in the hell could anyone know he'd tank so badly in a Cards uniform? As if turns out, his faith in TO was misplaced and he should have went with Arozarena. But then again, TO had more talent and I think was even younger. On the surface it was actually looking like a no brainer to play TO the lion share of the time. So many trades aren't viewed through the prism of the time they were transacted. I was okay with Brett Cecil signing, until I wasn't. And I was far from alone. I was okay with the Ozuna trade, until I wasn't. I felt like TO had all the talent and promise to be a superstar, until he wasn't. Hindsight is 20/20.
Of course you were okay with the Ozuna trade. You didn't have the insight that MO and his team should've have had.

And a GM can be a huge TO fan, and still keep, for example, Randy on the team.

There is a saying, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."

ONeill had a .723 OPS and was injured two or three times in 2019. In the following 6 seasons, he's had a .715 OPS or below 4 times, and on the injured list countless times.

A good GM can still keep TO, give him a big chunk of PT, but still hang onto Randy to see what happens.

An all-star for a couple of prospects is a fair trade. If Ozuna had lived up to his end it would have been fine. Again, hindsight is 20/20.
As for TO and Arozarena, there were other factors and there were outfield prospects aplenty. None really panned out. Arozarena has had some great times since he left St Louis but at the time he wan't at the top of the depth chart. I admit he went too far with the TO experiment. But really, the promise was there it just never bloomed fully. I think Randy rubbed some people the wrong way and that hastened his departure. It shouldn't have, but I think it did.

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 09:43 am**

Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm
Bob Kunush wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 12:39 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 11:45 am
ramfandan wrote: ↑05 Oct 2025 12:02 pm Post Dispatch Ben Hochman had sit down with Cards Asst. GM Rob Cerfolio regarding how Cardinals under Chaim Bloom have already made big steps i improving the Cardinals.

Last year 'Cerf' as he is called said the club hired 20 new coaches/staff last offseason and will hire nearly that number again this year . Cerf said they did some recruiting to find the best teachers. They also invested in new technology like Hawk Eye, Pulse, and Catapult (see article )

Bloom Cerfolio and Larry Day have done a lot already to improve the organization for the long term.
The Pierpont hire to run the pitching side seems quite positive too.

In the article linked, Bloom during his sitdown with Cardinal writers said , 'I don't think any of you would have asked me about our 2022 No .2 pick Brycen Mautz ... Pierpont told Bloom last spring as they observed the kid in spring training , 'That kid is good !' Mautz went on to pitch well this year in Double A finishing 8-3 in 25 starts with a 2.98 ERA He started and won the Texas League title game for Springfield this year. Looks to pitch at Memphis in 2026 . Keep an eye out for him . Sounds to me like Pierpont has a good eye for pitching talent.

Link to full article :

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/column/ ... b6e7d.html
I think I'll reserve judgement until I actually see games played next year. This window dressing (bleep) might be something or it might be nothing. If it worked like that he wouldn't have gotten fired in Boston.
Another poster clueless as to why Bloom didnt work out in Boston. There are loads of articles out there on the sabotage that occurred to Bloom there if you wish to get more informed. But I am guessing it is hust easier to be negative amd complain.
Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.
You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.

Even you said at the end of the miserable 2022 season that he lost his fire. Now here you’re back tracking

You lie a lot

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 10:48 am**

CCard wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:38 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:10 am
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 20:54 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 17:20 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm
Bob Kunush wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 12:39 pm

Another poster clueless as to why Bloom didnt work out in Boston. There are loads of articles out there on the sabotage that occurred to Bloom there if you wish to get more informed. But I am guessing it is hust easier to be negative amd complain.
Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo is the one who decided to sign players to stupid extensions and invest long term contracts into mediocre players. He also was very good at keeping the wrong players and continually going with them until they have next to no trade value. He was Also the master of doing the bare minimum to address the teams weaknesses. He was also apparently so traumatized by dealing with Larussa he was compelled to hire rookie managers who were yes men and just grateful to have a job after that
Most all of what you said is your conjecture. You don't know the inner workings and just assume he could have produced miracles. The Cards just spent two decades of low draft picks and winning seasons. Maybe he could have made trades to raise the level of talent and maybe he tried, but it takes two to tango. When he did make a trade or signing a lot of them backfired spectacularly. Ozuna was an all-star every day player, highly coveted by a lot of teams. He played very well in Miami. If he had produced similarly in St Louis the trade would be viewed as a lot more positive one. How in the hell could anyone know he'd tank so badly in a Cards uniform? As if turns out, his faith in TO was misplaced and he should have went with Arozarena. But then again, TO had more talent and I think was even younger. On the surface it was actually looking like a no brainer to play TO the lion share of the time. So many trades aren't viewed through the prism of the time they were transacted. I was okay with Brett Cecil signing, until I wasn't. And I was far from alone. I was okay with the Ozuna trade, until I wasn't. I felt like TO had all the talent and promise to be a superstar, until he wasn't. Hindsight is 20/20.
Of course you were okay with the Ozuna trade. You didn't have the insight that MO and his team should've have had.

And a GM can be a huge TO fan, and still keep, for example, Randy on the team.

There is a saying, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."

ONeill had a .723 OPS and was injured two or three times in 2019. In the following 6 seasons, he's had a .715 OPS or below 4 times, and on the injured list countless times.

A good GM can still keep TO, give him a big chunk of PT, but still hang onto Randy to see what happens.
An all-star for a couple of prospects is a fair trade. If Ozuna had lived up to his end it would have been fine. Again, hindsight is 20/20.
As for TO and Arozarena, there were other factors and there were outfield prospects aplenty. None really panned out. Arozarena has had some great times since he left St Louis but at the time he wan't at the top of the depth chart. I admit he went too far with the TO experiment. But really, the promise was there it just never bloomed fully. I think Randy rubbed some people the wrong way and that hastened his departure. It shouldn't have, but I think it did.

Wasn't it known at the time of the Ozuna trade that he had a wonky shoulder? I'm fairly certain that was common knowledge. Maybe the Cardinals thought they would just manage his defense carefully and it wouldn't impact his offense, and maybe it really didn't have anything to do with why his offensive production fell off in 2018. But I feel the Ozuna trade (and Fowler signing) was a reaction to Taveras dying and feeling the need to continue competing without any kind of soft reset. Hindsight is 50/50, but Ozuna had been mediocre his first four seasons in the league, then had one great season. The task for the GM was to decide if that was the start of a career breakout at an age where those things sometimes happen, or an outlier. Turns out it was an outlier.

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 11:32 am**

Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:43 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm
Bob Kunush wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 12:39 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 11:45 am

I think I'll reserve judgement until I actually see games played next year. This window dressing (bleep) might be something or it might be nothing. If it worked like that he wouldn't have gotten fired in Boston.
Another poster clueless as to why Bloom didnt work out in Boston. There are loads of articles out there on the sabotage that occurred to Bloom there if you wish to get more informed. But I am guessing it is hust easier to be negative amd complain.
Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.
You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.
Even you said at the end of the miserable 2022 season that he lost his fire. Now here you’re back tracking

You lie a lot

Boy, Banner, you sure are brave calling someone a liar on an anonymous forum. Tough guy pounding those keys.

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 11:36 am**

Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:32 am
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:43 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm
Bob Kunush wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 12:39 pm

Another poster clueless as to why Bloom didnt work out in Boston. There are loads of articles out there on the sabotage that occurred to Bloom there if you wish to get more informed. But I am guessing it is hust easier to be negative amd complain.
Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.
You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.
Even you said at the end of the miserable 2022 season that he lost his fire. Now here you’re back tracking

You lie a lot
Boy, Banner, you sure are brave calling someone a liar on an anonymous forum. Tough guy pounding those keys.

I notice you didn’t dispute it. Just got offended and embarrassed that it was put out to the public. Which means I am correct.

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 11:38 am**

DFW Cards Fan wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 10:48 am
CCard wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:38 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:10 am
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 20:54 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 17:20 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm

Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo is the one who decided to sign players to stupid extensions and invest long term contracts into mediocre players. He also was very good at keeping the wrong players and continually going with them until they have next to no trade value. He was Also the master of doing the bare minimum to address the teams weaknesses. He was also apparently so traumatized by dealing with Larussa he was compelled to hire rookie managers who were yes men and just grateful to have a job after that
Most all of what you said is your conjecture. You don't know the inner workings and just assume he could have produced miracles. The Cards just spent two decades of low draft picks and winning seasons. Maybe he could have made trades to raise the level of talent and maybe he tried, but it takes two to tango. When he did make a trade or signing a lot of them backfired spectacularly. Ozuna was an all-star every day player, highly coveted by a lot of teams. He played very well in Miami. If he had produced similarly in St Louis the trade would be viewed as a lot more positive one. How in the hell could anyone know he'd tank so badly in a Cards uniform? As if turns out, his faith in TO was misplaced and he should have went with Arozarena. But then again, TO had more talent and I think was even younger. On the surface it was actually looking like a no brainer to play TO the lion share of the time. So many trades aren't viewed through the prism of the time they were transacted. I was okay with Brett Cecil signing, until I wasn't. And I was far from alone. I was okay with the Ozuna trade, until I wasn't. I felt like TO had all the talent and promise to be a superstar, until he wasn't. Hindsight is 20/20.
Of course you were okay with the Ozuna trade. You didn't have the insight that MO and his team should've have had.

And a GM can be a huge TO fan, and still keep, for example, Randy on the team.

There is a saying, "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."

ONeill had a .723 OPS and was injured two or three times in 2019. In the following 6 seasons, he's had a .715 OPS or below 4 times, and on the injured list countless times.

A good GM can still keep TO, give him a big chunk of PT, but still hang onto Randy to see what happens.
An all-star for a couple of prospects is a fair trade. If Ozuna had lived up to his end it would have been fine. Again, hindsight is 20/20.
As for TO and Arozarena, there were other factors and there were outfield prospects aplenty. None really panned out. Arozarena has had some great times since he left St Louis but at the time he wan't at the top of the depth chart. I admit he went too far with the TO experiment. But really, the promise was there it just never bloomed fully. I think Randy rubbed some people the wrong way and that hastened his departure. It shouldn't have, but I think it did.
Wasn't it known at the time of the Ozuna trade that he had a wonky shoulder? I'm fairly certain that was common knowledge. Maybe the Cardinals thought they would just manage his defense carefully and it wouldn't impact his offense, and maybe it really didn't have anything to do with why his offensive production fell off in 2018. But I feel the Ozuna trade (and Fowler signing) was a reaction to Taveras dying and feeling the need to continue competing without any kind of soft reset. Hindsight is 50/50, but Ozuna had been mediocre his first four seasons in the league, then had one great season. The task for the GM was to decide if that was the start of a career breakout at an age where those things sometimes happen, or an outlier. Turns out it was an outlier.

I don't remember anything about a wonky shoulder but at the time the Cards were starved for power and production. The first went after Stanton and were rebuffed by him, then Miami said they weren't trading Yelich (which they then did) so the Cards had to settle for Ozuna.

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 12:30 pm**

Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:36 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:32 am
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:43 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm

Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.
You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.
Even you said at the end of the miserable 2022 season that he lost his fire. Now here you’re back tracking

You lie a lot
Boy, Banner, you sure are brave calling someone a liar on an anonymous forum. Tough guy pounding those keys.
I notice you didn’t dispute it. Just got offended and embarrassed that it was put out to the public. Which means I am correct.

Sorry, Banner, but I’m not a liar. And I truly can’t think of a bigger waste of time than calling someone a liar that you don’t even know - on an anonymous baseball forum. Seriously, don’t you have anything better to do today?

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 13:14 pm**

Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:36 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:32 am
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:43 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm
CCard wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:38 pm

Nobody wants him to succeed more than I. But this need to deify him is pretty ridiculous. Has he ever produced a championship anywhere? You should temper your expectations and cut the guy some slack. When next season passess and ownership still hasn't ponied up for talent, then some of you will start your "Fire Bloom screed". Mo did what he could with the budget he was given. It wasn't good enough to produce seasons that people wanted. Bloom will probably be given the same rope.
Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.
You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.
Even you said at the end of the miserable 2022 season that he lost his fire. Now here you’re back tracking

You lie a lot
Boy, Banner, you sure are brave calling someone a liar on an anonymous forum. Tough guy pounding those keys.
I notice you didn’t dispute it. Just got offended and embarrassed that it was put out to the public. Which means I am correct.

Cranny and I were told to put each other on the Foe list....which I have done...OldRed started a thread where I would post something and Cranny would quote me...and still claim he couldn't read my post...which is a LIE!...despite several people pointing this out...I'm assuming he will report me again...he will whine that I'm breaking the rules!

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 13:37 pm**

Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 12:30 pm
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:36 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:32 am
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:43 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Oct 2025 21:46 pm

Well if he doesn’t waste the budget he is given like mo did then he will be head and shoulders better. Mo was awful with bad contracts and worse extensions just wasting the budget he was given on garbage
That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.
You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.
Even you said at the end of the miserable 2022 season that he lost his fire. Now here you’re back tracking

You lie a lot
Boy, Banner, you sure are brave calling someone a liar on an anonymous forum. Tough guy pounding those keys.
I notice you didn’t dispute it. Just got offended and embarrassed that it was put out to the public. Which means I am correct.
Sorry, Banner, but I’m not a liar. And I truly can’t think of a bigger waste of time than calling someone a liar that you don’t even know - on an anonymous baseball forum. Seriously, don’t you have anything better to do today?

You still aren’t disputing what I said. Just avoiding the main point that was made as you have no defense to it and responding only to something insignificant from my post.

So not only do you lie a lot but you also display traits of narcissistic behavior

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 14:05 pm**

Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 13:37 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 12:30 pm
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:36 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:32 am
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:43 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am
CCard wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 07:07 am

That's not totally fair though. I mean, he signed Brett Cecil. At the time they really needed good lefty relief, and Cecil was highly regarded in the AL, but he came to the Cards and didn't live up to his contract. To me, you could say that Mo and his scouts should have known that his peripherals weren't that good, but you have no way of knowing if he'd pitch adequately or better in a Cards uniform. Same with the outfielder they got from the Marlins, he was an all-star for them, then he comes to the Cards and plays like (bleep). Then he goes to the Braves and voila and all-star again. You just can't in all honesty blame Mo for all these things. He might significant moves that looked right but didn't work out good. One can never know if a player is going to play good or not.
Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.
You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.
Even you said at the end of the miserable 2022 season that he lost his fire. Now here you’re back tracking

You lie a lot
Boy, Banner, you sure are brave calling someone a liar on an anonymous forum. Tough guy pounding those keys.
I notice you didn’t dispute it. Just got offended and embarrassed that it was put out to the public. Which means I am correct.
Sorry, Banner, but I’m not a liar. And I truly can’t think of a bigger waste of time than calling someone a liar that you don’t even know - on an anonymous baseball forum. Seriously, don’t you have anything better to do today?
You still aren’t disputing what I said. Just avoiding the main point that was made as you have no defense to it and responding only to something insignificant from my post.

So not only do you lie a lot but you also display traits of narcissistic behavior

More insults, Banner? Hiding behind your screen and keyboard like a little pansy? What a cute little guy you are.

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 17:08 pm**

Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 14:05 pm
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 13:37 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 12:30 pm
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:36 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:32 am
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:43 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑07 Oct 2025 08:23 am

Well yea I guess if you go by the criteria you never know if a player is going to be good or not then no GM or POBO is ever bad and they’re all good
Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.
You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.
Even you said at the end of the miserable 2022 season that he lost his fire. Now here you’re back tracking

You lie a lot
Boy, Banner, you sure are brave calling someone a liar on an anonymous forum. Tough guy pounding those keys.
I notice you didn’t dispute it. Just got offended and embarrassed that it was put out to the public. Which means I am correct.
Sorry, Banner, but I’m not a liar. And I truly can’t think of a bigger waste of time than calling someone a liar that you don’t even know - on an anonymous baseball forum. Seriously, don’t you have anything better to do today?
You still aren’t disputing what I said. Just avoiding the main point that was made as you have no defense to it and responding only to something insignificant from my post.

So not only do you lie a lot but you also display traits of narcissistic behavior
More insults, Banner? Hiding behind your screen and keyboard like a little pansy? What a cute little guy you are.

The irony here is hilarious. I called you no names yet here you are name calling

And We are on an Internet forum, what would you like me to do……drive to your nursing home and say things to you directly? What else are my options?

You also are still avoiding my main point. Which is why no matter what you say from here I still win

Posted: **10 Oct 2025 18:40 pm**

Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 17:08 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 14:05 pm
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 13:37 pm
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 12:30 pm
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:36 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 11:32 am
Banner29 wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 09:43 am
Cranny wrote: ↑10 Oct 2025 08:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 21:52 pm
CCard wrote: ↑09 Oct 2025 11:01 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 08:07 am
CCard wrote: ↑08 Oct 2025 06:16 am

Part of their job is to evaluate talent. Check the numbers. But at the end of the day, the player has to perform. If they do, you look like a genius, if the don't, you look like a fool. No one could have predicted that Ozuna would stink up St Louis. No one could have predicted that To would be a perpetual albatross. No one could have predicted that Brett Cecil would suck so hard. No one could have predicted that Arozarena would be the best OF of the bunch. No one could have predicted Carlson being completely inept. I mean, any GM would have probably made most of those same decisions. Players have to play well. Herzog once said a good bullpen made him a genius, and a bad bullpen made him stupid. (Paraphrased)
You sure do use the term "no one" an awful lot in your argument above. I would suggest that the best MLB talent evaluators would have made and did make smarter calls than Mo did. As I recall, Cecil had some questionable peripherals, Ozuna had some red flags, O'Neills work-out obsession would make him injury prone, Randy was highly-touted coming out of Cuba and given no real chance in STL (he shared the Shildt video), and many teams passed over Carlson in the draft.

We are trying to hire the best MLB evaluators today to make better decisions going forward.
Show me a ballplayer that doesn't have "red flags". Randy was moderately touted and that's a main reason why St Louis got him. He was a little too old for most teams and his performance in St Louis was on again off again. In fact, didn't Texas have him for a while? I'm not saying Mo is some super genius but I am saying that he's been demonized to an extreme when DeWitt is the one that decides who is signed or not.
Mo was arrogant, stubborn and lazy. Full stop.
You have absolutely no idea if Mo was lazy or not. Stop pretending like you do.
Even you said at the end of the miserable 2022 season that he lost his fire. Now here you’re back tracking

You lie a lot
Boy, Banner, you sure are brave calling someone a liar on an anonymous forum. Tough guy pounding those keys.
I notice you didn’t dispute it. Just got offended and embarrassed that it was put out to the public. Which means I am correct.
Sorry, Banner, but I’m not a liar. And I truly can’t think of a bigger waste of time than calling someone a liar that you don’t even know - on an anonymous baseball forum. Seriously, don’t you have anything better to do today?
You still aren’t disputing what I said. Just avoiding the main point that was made as you have no defense to it and responding only to something insignificant from my post.

So not only do you lie a lot but you also display traits of narcissistic behavior
More insults, Banner? Hiding behind your screen and keyboard like a little pansy? What a cute little guy you are.

The irony here is hilarious. I called you no names yet here you are name calling

And We are on an Internet forum, what would you like me to do……drive to your nursing home and say things to you directly? What else are my options?

You also are still avoiding my main point. Which is why no matter what you say from here I still win

Oh, I get it now with you, Banner. It's a matter of "I win". Sorry, not interested in playing. It's not a contest. It's supposed to be a fan friendly Cardinal forum. Let's try to keep it that way. Okay?

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