Rooney on the Radio said he expects a lot of movement

[ScotchMIrish]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Why would anyone plop down their hard earned cash to watch a team where ownership wasn't trying to win? You want to kill your fan base, that's the way to do it.

And the owners should expect that. Other teams that have gone down this path have seen temporary yearly attendance drops of 500,000 (Atlanta), 1,000,000 (Houston), or even 1,500,000 (Philadelphia). But the fans come right back when the team starts winning again.

I'm sure some will but some won't also. On top of that, what have you gained by canceling salary and losing income? It's a stupid premise as I've argued with you before. The Cards were the class of the Central and they did it by acquiring talent. By trades and by signings. Not so much by drafting and developing.

What tends to happen is people find other things the like to do. It will be interest to see but I doubt the Cardinals will return to the Matheny era when the Cardinals were drawing 42,000 a game.

Well, if they do a huge makeover ala Whitey Herzog style and they start fielding and exciting and competitive team then attendance would bounce back quickly depending of course on how badly someone destroys the economy, but the longer the losing and boring talent percolates here the worse it'll be on the returning attendance.

Whitey knew in that pitcher friendly ballpark what the needed to win and as both General manager and field manager he was in a unique position to get it. I don't think have enough trade chips to be able to acquire good players or people in charge who understand baseball the way Herzog did. These are analytics people. They are looking at spin rate and swing angle. Perhaps Bloom is that guy but I doubt it.

[rockondlouie]

glad folks pointed out the money Houston spent. They acquired Justin Verlander. So, why wait, why not go ahead and acquire a decent pitcher now, they will always need to anyway.

And exactly why my #1 target is free agent Z. Gallen!

Going into his age 30 season and after being a true ACE from 2019 - 2024 (143 GS: 3.29 ERA) he slipped in his 2025 walk year which could bring down his asking price.

Trade Gray.................upgrade to Gallen!

[mattmitchl44]

What I see is some people just creating issues (the owners will never go back to spending money once they stop; the fans will never come back once they stop coming; etc.) which may never be true just to argue against the current course of action.

[PadsFS07]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

St Louis has the longest streak of not having 100 losses on MLB, tied with the Dodgers since 1908. The Yankees lost 102 in 1912 when they were still the Highlanders.

[Imperial Capitalist]

What I see is some people just creating issues (the owners will never go back to spending money once they stop; the fans will never come back once they stop coming; etc.) which may never be true just to argue against the current course of action.

The same arguments were likely made by fans in Houston, Philly, & Atlanta on the front-end of their respective rebuilds.

[rockondlouie]

Sure hope the posters who have been pleading for this complete tear down enjoy losing 90+ games the next three -four years w/absolutely no guarantee it will to anything while attendance dwindles.

BDWJR absolutely will NOT raise payroll back to anywhere near the $180M level UNLESS attendance goes back to the 3M level.

Only foolish dreamers can't comprehend the fact that Dewitt has ALWAYS tied Payroll to Attendance.

[mattmitchl44]

Only foolish dreamers can't comprehend the fact that Dewitt has ALWAYS tied Payroll to Attendance.

And the owners have never operated the way they are apparently planning to for this rebuild. So they're already breaking with what they have "always" done.

Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

[Imperial Capitalist]

Sure hope the posters who have been pleading for this complete tear down enjoy losing 90+ games the next three -four years w/absolutely no guarantee it will to anything while attendance dwindles.

BDWJR absolutely will NOT raise payroll back to anywhere near the $180M level UNLESS attendance goes back to the 3M level.

Only foolish dreamers can't comprehend the fact that Dewitt has ALWAYS tied Payroll to Attendance.

Unless you are a Cranny-level Cards insider, how do you know what WILL or WON'T be done ~ 4 years from now?

[Ozziesfan41]

Sure hope the posters who have been pleading for this complete tear down enjoy losing 90+ games the next three -four years w/absolutely no guarantee it will to anything while attendance dwindles.

BDWJR absolutely will NOT raise payroll back to anywhere near the $180M level UNLESS attendance goes back to the 3M level.

Only foolish dreamers can't comprehend the fact that Dewitt has ALWAYS tied Payroll to Attendance.

Unless you are a Cranny-level Cards insider, how do you know what WILL or WON'T be done ~ 4 years from now?

He doesn’t know he’s talking out of his (donkey) per usual he’s mad the cards are doing the smart thing and not being stupid and going for continuing the sustained mediocrity approach

[ScotchMIrish]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

St Louis has the longest streak of not having 100 losses on MLB, tied with the Dodgers since 1908. The Yankees lost 102 in 1912 when they were still the Highlanders.

Cool. I didn't know that.

[lidstrom5]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Why would anyone plop down their hard earned cash to watch a team where ownership wasn't trying to win? You want to kill your fan base, that's the way to do it.

True but I would add why would anybody plop down MLB money to watch DH baseball? I can go to a high school game and see that.

Anyone goes to a game to watch "talent" and to root for their home team. When the talent isn't there the home team will lose. Why would anyone sign up for that? People like watching stars perform. Where's the stars?

But you get to holler Noot while he might go 1 for 4.

[rockondlouie]

Only foolish dreamers can't comprehend the fact that Dewitt has ALWAYS tied Payroll to Attendance.

And the owners have never operated the way they are apparently planning to for this rebuild. So they're already breaking with what they have "always" done.

Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

Not hardly matt, you're being silly if you think otherwise when it comes to BDWJr and how he sets the payroll.

But keep dreaming on that he'll give C. Bloom a Top 10 payroll, which would be over $210+M, after the re-build is completed in three-four years.

and


Complete tear down & rebuilds by the Astros, Braves ect...you always cite are no guarantee of future returns for the Cardinals.

[CCard]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Why would anyone plop down their hard earned cash to watch a team where ownership wasn't trying to win? You want to kill your fan base, that's the way to do it.

True but I would add why would anybody plop down MLB money to watch DH baseball? I can go to a high school game and see that.

Anyone goes to a game to watch "talent" and to root for their home team. When the talent isn't there the home team will lose. Why would anyone sign up for that? People like watching stars perform. Where's the stars?

But you get to holler Noot while he might go 1 for 4.

Indeed.

[CCard]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Why would anyone plop down their hard earned cash to watch a team where ownership wasn't trying to win? You want to kill your fan base, that's the way to do it.

And the owners should expect that. Other teams that have gone down this path have seen temporary yearly attendance drops of 500,000 (Atlanta), 1,000,000 (Houston), or even 1,500,000 (Philadelphia). But the fans come right back when the team starts winning again.

I'm sure some will but some won't also. On top of that, what have you gained by canceling salary and losing income? It's a stupid premise as I've argued with you before. The Cards were the class of the Central and they did it by acquiring talent. By trades and by signings. Not so much by drafting and developing.

What tends to happen is people find other things the like to do. It will be interest to see but I doubt the Cardinals will return to the Matheny era when the Cardinals were drawing 42,000 a game.

Well, if they do a huge makeover ala Whitey Herzog style and they start fielding and exciting and competitive team then attendance would bounce back quickly depending of course on how badly someone destroys the economy, but the longer the losing and boring talent percolates here the worse it'll be on the returning attendance.

Whitey knew in that pitcher friendly ballpark what the needed to win and as both General manager and field manager he was in a unique position to get it. I don't think have enough trade chips to be able to acquire good players or people in charge who understand baseball the way Herzog did. These are analytics people. They are looking at spin rate and swing angle. Perhaps Bloom is that guy but I doubt it.

Even though he coached in the American League, he was always a National League type manager. He believe that speed never slumps, and that a single was as good as a double with speed. He believed in a strong defense and that you didn't need to hit homers to win games even though it helped at times. Even if you lost a game, you gave an exciting show with lots of action. Whitey ball you all was the war cry of the Cardinals. Those were special times and today with the limiting throws to first and the bigger bags, I can't even imagine how many bases they would have stolen.

[ScotchMIrish]

during the winter and 6 or 7 current minor leagues on the 26 man roster next season. This team was 11 games under .500 following the all star break. If they replace veterans with prospects and don't add a bunch of pitching we could be looking at a 100 lost team.

Why would anyone plop down their hard earned cash to watch a team where ownership wasn't trying to win? You want to kill your fan base, that's the way to do it.

And the owners should expect that. Other teams that have gone down this path have seen temporary yearly attendance drops of 500,000 (Atlanta), 1,000,000 (Houston), or even 1,500,000 (Philadelphia). But the fans come right back when the team starts winning again.

I'm sure some will but some won't also. On top of that, what have you gained by canceling salary and losing income? It's a stupid premise as I've argued with you before. The Cards were the class of the Central and they did it by acquiring talent. By trades and by signings. Not so much by drafting and developing.

What tends to happen is people find other things the like to do. It will be interest to see but I doubt the Cardinals will return to the Matheny era when the Cardinals were drawing 42,000 a game.

Well, if they do a huge makeover ala Whitey Herzog style and they start fielding and exciting and competitive team then attendance would bounce back quickly depending of course on how badly someone destroys the economy, but the longer the losing and boring talent percolates here the worse it'll be on the returning attendance.

Whitey knew in that pitcher friendly ballpark what the needed to win and as both General manager and field manager he was in a unique position to get it. I don't think have enough trade chips to be able to acquire good players or people in charge who understand baseball the way Herzog did. These are analytics people. They are looking at spin rate and swing angle. Perhaps Bloom is that guy but I doubt it.

Even though he coached in the American League, he was always a National League type manager. He believe that speed never slumps, and that a single was as good as a double with speed. He believed in a strong defense and that you didn't need to hit homers to win games even though it helped at times. Even if you lost a game, you gave an exciting show with lots of action. Whitey ball you all was the war cry of the Cardinals. Those were special times and today with the limiting throws to first and the bigger bags, I can't even imagine how many bases they would have stolen.

True. In 1982 the Cardinals were 17th in OPS. If you ran that season through an analytics computer it would tell you the 1982 Cardinals had no chance. No better example of the flaws with today's analytics.

It's true Herzog managed previously in the American but when he played and learned the game from managers like Casey Stengel there was no DH.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leag ... 1982.shtml

[mattmitchl44]

Only foolish dreamers can't comprehend the fact that Dewitt has ALWAYS tied Payroll to Attendance.

And the owners have never operated the way they are apparently planning to for this rebuild. So they're already breaking with what they have "always" done.

Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.

Not hardly matt, you're being silly if you think otherwise when it comes to BDWJr and how he sets the payroll.

But keep dreaming on that he'll give C. Bloom a Top 10 payroll, which would be over $210+M, after the re-build is completed in three-four years.

and

Complete tear down & rebuilds by the Astros, Braves ect...you always cite are no guarantee of future returns for the Cardinals.

It's not - but continuing their course of the last multiple seasons of striving to be a better version of mediocre isn't a path to future returns either.