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Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 12:45 pm
by ilcubuffs
MO Rans downfall:
Letting the "incompetent one" tell everyone he is the smartest man in the room, believe he is the smartest man in the room, and act as the smartest man in the room.
The vacuum created when the MLB competent staff, manager, personnel et al were forced out or left created a black hole for the organization. Results are and were predictable.
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 12:57 pm
by dugoutrex
ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 11:23 am
dugoutrex wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 10:11 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Sep 2025 20:53 pm
The levels of futility this org has felt the last five years really just comes down to one move:
Trading for Ozuna.
(Honorable mentions: signing Fowler and trading Randy)
2021: picked up two starters at the deadline:
2022: two starters at DL
2024: one starter at the DL
What would those teams look like with Sandy and Zac in the rotation?
What would the 2023 and 2025 teams look like?
Those trades also cost us Oviedo, Bader, Thomas and Edman. I’m not against trading any of those guys, but what else could we have gotten if we weren’t trying to patchwork the rotation?
Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!) and making a move that should not be made by a mid market organization. If you need an OFer, you do what the 2004 did and sign a number of players on 1-2 year deals and hope one strikes gold. Or like the 2011 or 2012 cards team did.
One move—just one—changed MO’s legacy.
if you weren't high on Jack then you know very little about pitching - his ceiling was off the charts!
How about Weaver and Hudson?
No one is knocking Mo for being high on Jack…
Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!)
sure looks like you were!
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 13:53 pm
by vegasdon
I recall when Mathheny was fired, my response was nothing will change until Mo is terminated. The man was wrong for the job and his good numbers were reflected from what his predecessors had built. How different would the make up be if ownership had recognized then that Mo was not the right man for the job?
Each & every year we would await for the trade deadline. Other GM's were trading, and Mo seemed afraid to pull the trigger. Afraid to be shown up? Afraid to be seen inept?
Many years during the trade deadline, one or two good trades would have made a difference, each year the fans saw what we were waiting for from Mo. "Nothing"
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 14:30 pm
by Banner29
vegasdon wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 13:53 pm
I recall when Mathheny was fired, my response was nothing will change until Mo is terminated. The man was wrong for the job and his good numbers were reflected from what his predecessors had built. How different would the make up be if ownership had recognized then that Mo was not the right man for the job?
Each & every year we would await for the trade deadline. Other GM's were trading, and Mo seemed afraid to pull the trigger. Afraid to be shown up? Afraid to be seen inept?
Many years during the trade deadline, one or two good trades would have made a difference, each year the fans saw what we were waiting for from Mo. "Nothing"
I believe he just simply stopped caring. It became obvious after the hackgate incident/his “promotion.” Hes coasted for years and never has seemed to have any fear whatsoever of being fired. Like very suspiciously without fear
But regardless he just got lazy. And almost seemed to have a vendetta against the fanbase to make this team as frustrating as he could. Harder honestly to believe he has been THAT incompetent and actually was trying
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 14:40 pm
by Ozziesfan41
Banner29 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 14:30 pm
vegasdon wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 13:53 pm
I recall when Mathheny was fired, my response was nothing will change until Mo is terminated. The man was wrong for the job and his good numbers were reflected from what his predecessors had built. How different would the make up be if ownership had recognized then that Mo was not the right man for the job?
Each & every year we would await for the trade deadline. Other GM's were trading, and Mo seemed afraid to pull the trigger. Afraid to be shown up? Afraid to be seen inept?
Many years during the trade deadline, one or two good trades would have made a difference, each year the fans saw what we were waiting for from Mo. "Nothing"
I believe he just simply stopped caring. It became obvious after the hackgate incident/his “promotion.” Hes coasted for years and never has seemed to have any fear whatsoever of being fired. Like very suspiciously without fear
But regardless he just got lazy. And almost seemed to have a vendetta against the fanbase to make this team as frustrating as he could. Harder honestly to believe he has been THAT incompetent and actually was trying
I don’t think he quit caring. He should have continued building on the structure lunhow jocketty and Walt put into
Place. He coasted with success on it road its coattails but he started dismantling it wanting to make the organization his and not theirs and this is now the organization that mo built although bloom has working to fix the destruction he inflicted on the development system
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 15:07 pm
by Bomber1
82birds wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 11:01 am
Jatalk wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 10:55 am
I think just focusing on one of MO’s mistakes minimizes the total disaster his tenure has been. The mistakes are so many. Let’s give the man credit for each and every disastrous decision he made.
^^^THIS^^^
X2
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 15:09 pm
by Bomber1
ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 11:25 am
82birds wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 11:01 am
Jatalk wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 10:55 am
I think just focusing on one of MO’s mistakes minimizes the total disaster his tenure has been. The mistakes are so many. Let’s give the man credit for each and every disastrous decision he made.
^^^THIS^^^
Read my OP again.
The Ozuna trade had a horrible affect on the last 6 seasons….
Mozeliak’s idiocy preceded the Ozuna trade by about 4 years.
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 15:09 pm
by ecleme22
dugoutrex wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 12:57 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 11:23 am
dugoutrex wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 10:11 am
ecleme22 wrote: ↑26 Sep 2025 20:53 pm
The levels of futility this org has felt the last five years really just comes down to one move:
Trading for Ozuna.
(Honorable mentions: signing Fowler and trading Randy)
2021: picked up two starters at the deadline:
2022: two starters at DL
2024: one starter at the DL
What would those teams look like with Sandy and Zac in the rotation?
What would the 2023 and 2025 teams look like?
Those trades also cost us Oviedo, Bader, Thomas and Edman. I’m not against trading any of those guys, but what else could we have gotten if we weren’t trying to patchwork the rotation?
Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!) and making a move that should not be made by a mid market organization. If you need an OFer, you do what the 2004 did and sign a number of players on 1-2 year deals and hope one strikes gold. Or like the 2011 or 2012 cards team did.
One move—just one—changed MO’s legacy.
if you weren't high on Jack then you know very little about pitching - his ceiling was off the charts!
How about Weaver and Hudson?
No one is knocking Mo for being high on Jack…
Closing thoughts: this really comes to a few things:Lack of talent evaluation (high on Hudson/weaver/jack!)
sure looks like you were!
Sorry, I meant more he thought the rotation was SET.
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 16:31 pm
by ecleme22
Bomber1 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 15:09 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 11:25 am
82birds wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 11:01 am
Jatalk wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 10:55 am
I think just focusing on one of MO’s mistakes minimizes the total disaster his tenure has been. The mistakes are so many. Let’s give the man credit for each and every disastrous decision he made.
^^^THIS^^^
Read my OP again.
The Ozuna trade had a horrible affect on the last 6 seasons….
Mozeliak’s idiocy preceded the Ozuna trade by about 4 years.
True, but if that one move didn’t happen, 2021-2025 would’ve looked completely different.
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 17:42 pm
by Melville
ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 16:31 pm
Bomber1 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 15:09 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 11:25 am
82birds wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 11:01 am
Jatalk wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 10:55 am
I think just focusing on one of MO’s mistakes minimizes the total disaster his tenure has been. The mistakes are so many. Let’s give the man credit for each and every disastrous decision he made.
^^^THIS^^^
Read my OP again.
The Ozuna trade had a horrible affect on the last 6 seasons….
Mozeliak’s idiocy preceded the Ozuna trade by about 4 years.
True, but if that one move didn’t happen, 2021-2025 would’ve looked completely different.
2012-2025 would have looked much better without the time and money wasted on the rocking-chair years of Pujols, Wainwright, and Molina.
There was never any valid baseball-based reason for keeping them.
34M for Wainwright's age 39,40, and 41 seasons.
19M for Molina's age 38 and 39 seasons.
Add a wasted 3M for 42-year-old Pujols.
Nearly 50M wasted on players age 38 and older - at a time STL needed to be investing in young talent.
Unbelievably stupid and irresponsible decision making.
And it led directly to the trainwreck (for several obvious and inevitable reasons) as I alone predicted.
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 18:14 pm
by hmoss859
Free agent disasters
Brett Cecil
Mike Leake
Dexter Fowler
Sonny Gray (backloaded 35 mil)
Stupid extensions for
Matt Carpenter
Yadi Molina
Miles Mikolas
Adam Wainwright
Stupid trades
Randy Arozarena
Marcel Ozuna
Shall I go on?
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 18:18 pm
by hmoss859
Banner29 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 14:30 pm
vegasdon wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 13:53 pm
I recall when Mathheny was fired, my response was nothing will change until Mo is terminated. The man was wrong for the job and his good numbers were reflected from what his predecessors had built. How different would the make up be if ownership had recognized then that Mo was not the right man for the job?
Each & every year we would await for the trade deadline. Other GM's were trading, and Mo seemed afraid to pull the trigger. Afraid to be shown up? Afraid to be seen inept?
Many years during the trade deadline, one or two good trades would have made a difference, each year the fans saw what we were waiting for from Mo. "Nothing"
I believe he just simply stopped caring. It became obvious after the hackgate incident/his “promotion.” Hes coasted for years and never has seemed to have any fear whatsoever of being fired. Like very suspiciously without fear
But regardless he just got lazy. And almost seemed to have a vendetta against the fanbase to make this team as frustrating as he could. Harder honestly to believe he has been THAT incompetent and actually was trying
Read your above statement - the answer is in there why he had no fear of being fired
Mo and DeWitt were complicit in HackGate, they knew and brokered a back room deal with Manfred to save their behinds, the Correa lone wolf duck never quacked with me
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 18:21 pm
by Cusecards
Today’s trivia question:
Which poster said...”as I alone predicted”?????
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 18:27 pm
by Goldfan
hmoss859 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 18:14 pm
Free agent disasters
Brett Cecil
Mike Leake
Dexter Fowler
Sonny Gray (backloaded 35 mil)
Stupid extensions for
Matt Carpenter
Yadi Molina
Miles Mikolas
Adam Wainwright
Stupid trades
Randy Arozarena
Marcel Ozuna
Shall I go on?
And my favorite. A washed up Andrew Miller who would’ve been 3-4 guys out of BP. 13mil/yr for 3yrs.
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 19:07 pm
by straight out of st louis robert ave
Banner29 wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 14:30 pm
vegasdon wrote: ↑27 Sep 2025 13:53 pm
I recall when Mathheny was fired, my response was nothing will change until Mo is terminated. The man was wrong for the job and his good numbers were reflected from what his predecessors had built. How different would the make up be if ownership had recognized then that Mo was not the right man for the job?
Each & every year we would await for the trade deadline. Other GM's were trading, and Mo seemed afraid to pull the trigger. Afraid to be shown up? Afraid to be seen inept?
Many years during the trade deadline, one or two good trades would have made a difference, each year the fans saw what we were waiting for from Mo. "Nothing"
I believe he just simply stopped caring. It became obvious after the hackgate incident/his “promotion.” Hes coasted for years and never has seemed to have any fear whatsoever of being fired. Like very suspiciously without fear
But regardless he just got lazy. And almost seemed to have a vendetta against the fanbase to make this team as frustrating as he could. Harder honestly to believe he has been THAT incompetent and actually was trying
Good post!
I would like to add that Mo was so full of "pride" and it clouded his thinking.
He refused to think he was wrong and refused to accept criticism. That is a very dangerous attitude to have.
As Banner alluded to, he developed a personal vendetta against the fanbase and purposely "stayed" to earn a paycheck and tick off the fans.
Mo was just a "selfish" and "stupid" egotist. He should have been fired 10 yrs ago.
Re: MO’s downfall is really only about ONE move…
Posted: 27 Sep 2025 19:09 pm
by opti mist
Remember, the Ozuna trade was originally for Stanton, but he refused the trade. What could have been.
Opti
