STLtoday.com

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 05:00 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:16 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:08 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:05 pm that is according to Katie Woo , Cards writer for the Athletic

Several people within the org have expressed various levels of concern re: how long it will take for the Cardinals to return to contention.

But almost all are in unison: A multi-year rebuild under soon-to-be POBO Chaim Bloom is looming — and it's what's best for the franchise.
Katie Woo
@katiejwoo
As a season full of questions comes to a close, what have the #STLCards really answered?

The short answer? Plenty. Their major-league roster, at least as currently constructed, is not good enough to avoid a true rebuild.

Here is the full article
https://redbirdrants.com/it-sure-sounds ... -offseason


Nothing most of us didn't expect , the 'draft and development ' of the new players will be the priority . Don't look for 2026 quick fixes to the major league roster.

Nothing like wasting a year in 2025……

Actually Mo wasted at least 2 years 2024 and 2025 taking a band aid approach . He wasn't about to admit to the fan base that the team needed a major overhaul . Bernie M. was much harsher saying 'Mo lied to the fanbase about the state of the team. ' According to Bernie , Mo was afraid the fans would bail on the team if he stated that . Well, it backfired on him , for the product on the field deteriorated so much, the fans weren't fooled with the inferior product . But Mo's failure is now water over the dam. He has left the mess for Bloom to clean up. At least , Bloom (along with Cerfolio ) got all of this year upgrading the minors (new technology, more coaches, etc. ) Best of luck to Bloom .

As some of us said at the time, the pivot to rebuilding should have started at the trading deadline in 2023 when the team was 47-60 and going nowhere.

That was when the Cardinals should have worked with Goldschmidt, Arenado, Contreras, etc. to move them where they would go and get something for them.

Then should not have signed Gray after 2023 to a deal that is still going to have them paying him $35 million next year.

+ ∞

Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:20 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:16 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:08 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:05 pm that is according to Katie Woo , Cards writer for the Athletic

Several people within the org have expressed various levels of concern re: how long it will take for the Cardinals to return to contention.

But almost all are in unison: A multi-year rebuild under soon-to-be POBO Chaim Bloom is looming — and it's what's best for the franchise.
Katie Woo
@katiejwoo
As a season full of questions comes to a close, what have the #STLCards really answered?



The short answer? Plenty. Their major-league roster, at least as currently constructed, is not good enough to avoid a true rebuild.

Here is the full article
https://redbirdrants.com/it-sure-sounds ... -offseason


Nothing most of us didn't expect , the 'draft and development ' of the new players will be the priority . Don't look for 2026 quick fixes to the major league roster.

Nothing like wasting a year in 2025……

Actually Mo wasted at least 2 years 2024 and 2025 taking a band aid approach . He wasn't about to admit to the fan base that the team needed a major overhaul . Bernie M. was much harsher saying 'Mo lied to the fanbase about the state of the team. ' According to Bernie , Mo was afraid the fans would bail on the team if he stated that . Well, it backfired on him , for the product on the field deteriorated so much, the fans weren't fooled with the inferior product . But Mo's failure is now water over the dam. He has left the mess for Bloom to clean up. At least , Bloom (along with Cerfolio ) got all of this year upgrading the minors (new technology, more coaches, etc. ) Best of luck to Bloom .

Absolutely……I was just referring to Bloom signing the contract LAST YEAR after the season and having MO remain and it “be his team still”
This has turned into the stupidest organizations to all of sports…….hurts to say that.

Often, the truth hurts.

2ninr wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 06:23 am

Melville wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:55 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:19 pm

Melville wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:17 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:08 pm

Melville wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:43 pm Woo is guilty of the worst kind of "journalism" - complete and undocumented speculation based on unidentified sources.
She has zero idea what Bloom is thinking.
She has no idea what he thinks of the roster.
She has no idea what DeWitt is willing to spend.

I like her chances of getting it right better than yours or mine.

Why?
She made it clear that she has never spoken to Bloom about his specific plans for 2026.
No different than you or I.
Gossip and speculation from unidentified resources is no more valuable than what can be found daily here.
Maybe less so.
After all, she has subscriptions to sell and her "sources" may have a personal agenda.

Yawn.

Correct response to her reporting.
The team was in control of a W/C on July 1 each of the past 2 seasons and faded down the stretch under some very poor leadership.
The notion of a complete tear down and multi-year rebuild is nonsense.
The team will win 79 this year after winning 83 last year.
In only needs to add half a dozen wins next year to get moving in the right direction - and then build from there.
Bloom knows that.
Even if Woo does not.
If Wetherholt can join Contreras and Burleson to give the team the beginning of a line-up foundation, it is not hard to see how it starts to come together.
Winn and Donovan can then be complimentary pieces, which they are best suited for.
Add 2 starting pitchers and a middle order RH hitting outfielder for next year, while kicking The Marmot and his staff to the curb, is all that is then needed to begin making progress next year.
Very easily done with the trade assets and expected payroll for next year.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

See the bolded. You have no way of knowing that, yet you accused Woo of the same thing. Woo has a lot better grip on it than you do. I had to laugh. They aren't doing anything you claim they will. That's all what you want them to do. Not happening. Any of it. But we can all quit guessing in a couple months.

One, of course Bloom is aware that 6 more wins each of the last 2 season would have put the team into the post-season conversation - and moving in the right direction.
Reading the standings is basic stuff.
I have a high level of confidence Bloom can read.
Two, you have no idea what I want the team to do - nor did I state what they will do.
I simply stated with perfect analysis what is needed.
Three, what I did say is that the team does not need a complete tear down and multi-year rebuild.
That is obviously correct.
Four, I never guess.
I analyze.
Five, you are correct about one thing - we will be able to observe Bloom soon.
Three,

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 06:21 am Cardinals need pitching. They were .500 on July 31.

The potential danger in a complete dump and rebuild is fans are alienated and they find other things to occupy their time besides Cardinals baseball. Then even if we start winning attendance is mediocre.

Regarding Bloom he might be the guy who was the genius behind Tampa but I've known people who are good at taking credit for the accomplishments of others. In 2023 Tampa won 99 games long after Bloom was gone and Tampa had 4 consecutive losing seasons with Bloom in charge.

He is going to have to show me and if he does a dump and rebuild he could collapse this great franchise..

Correct.
They will not dump the 2026 season.
Risk is too great.

Melville wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 08:27 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 06:21 am Cardinals need pitching. They were .500 on July 31.

The potential danger in a complete dump and rebuild is fans are alienated and they find other things to occupy their time besides Cardinals baseball. Then even if we start winning attendance is mediocre.

Regarding Bloom he might be the guy who was the genius behind Tampa but I've known people who are good at taking credit for the accomplishments of others. In 2023 Tampa won 99 games long after Bloom was gone and Tampa had 4 consecutive losing seasons with Bloom in charge.

He is going to have to show me and if he does a dump and rebuild he could collapse this great franchise..

Correct.
They will not dump the 2026 season.
Risk is too great.

Threat of the FANS being alienated……has anyone seen the crowds this season?? What’s the threat….only a couple guys sitting in the bleachers

Bloom can improve the roster simply by clearing up the redundancy and clutter on it. This team (and organization) is not devoid of talent. They just don’t have enough of it in the right places. That’s something Bloom CAN fix without a complete tear down and rebuild.

45s wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:42 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:16 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:08 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:05 pm that is according to Katie Woo , Cards writer for the Athletic

Several people within the org have expressed various levels of concern re: how long it will take for the Cardinals to return to contention.

But almost all are in unison: A multi-year rebuild under soon-to-be POBO Chaim Bloom is looming — and it's what's best for the franchise.
Katie Woo
@katiejwoo
As a season full of questions comes to a close, what have the #STLCards really answered?

The short answer? Plenty. Their major-league roster, at least as currently constructed, is not good enough to avoid a true rebuild.

Here is the full article
https://redbirdrants.com/it-sure-sounds ... -offseason


Nothing most of us didn't expect , the 'draft and development ' of the new players will be the priority . Don't look for 2026 quick fixes to the major league roster.

Nothing like wasting a year in 2025……

Actually Mo wasted at least 2 years 2024 and 2025 taking a band aid approach . He wasn't about to admit to the fan base that the team needed a major overhaul . Bernie M. was much harsher saying 'Mo lied to the fanbase about the state of the team. ' According to Bernie , Mo was afraid the fans would bail on the team if he stated that . Well, it backfired on him , for the product on the field deteriorated so much, the fans weren't fooled with the inferior product . But Mo's failure is now water over the dam. He has left the mess for Bloom to clean up. At least , Bloom (along with Cerfolio ) got all of this year upgrading the minors (new technology, more coaches, etc. ) Best of luck to Bloom .

He wasted 2023 as well….

Let us not forget the “farewell tour “ years…

As I alone correctly predicted in 2021 and 2022, the organization's TOXIC CULTURE was clear, and it would lead to a downfall.
Specifically, I repeatedly said that pouring money and playing time into the dinosaurs of Wainwright, Molina, and Pujols to gain short term attendance and merchandise sales was a pure revenue play which would prove to cripple the team.
And I was right.
Everyone else was delighted with the STL strategy.
I was the only person who understood the reality.
Rather than dumping nostalgia money into 3 players far past their prime, the team should have been more quality, young talent to surround N/A and Goldschmidt before they also faded with age.
Massive strategic error.
In 2023, Wainwright had perhaps the worst season by a starter with 20 or more starts in MLB history - while N/A and Goldschmidt indeed began to slip.
It was all inevitable and easy to see.
And it was too late.
The seeds of the trainwreck were planted with stupid contract/payroll decisions in 2021 and 2022.
There is good news.
This can easily be fixed.
I could fix the organization in less than 30 days.
Any competent leader could.
Let's see what Bloom does from mid-to-late November through mid-to-late December.
This stuff ain't hard.

Goldfan wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 08:34 am

Melville wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 08:27 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 06:21 am Cardinals need pitching. They were .500 on July 31.

The potential danger in a complete dump and rebuild is fans are alienated and they find other things to occupy their time besides Cardinals baseball. Then even if we start winning attendance is mediocre.

Regarding Bloom he might be the guy who was the genius behind Tampa but I've known people who are good at taking credit for the accomplishments of others. In 2023 Tampa won 99 games long after Bloom was gone and Tampa had 4 consecutive losing seasons with Bloom in charge.

He is going to have to show me and if he does a dump and rebuild he could collapse this great franchise..

Correct.
They will not dump the 2026 season.
Risk is too great.

Threat of the FANS being alienated……has anyone seen the crowds this season?? What’s the threat….only a couple guys sitting in the bleachers

The risk is in repeating it.

Red7 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 08:36 am Bloom can improve the roster simply by clearing up the redundancy and clutter on it. This team (and organization) is not devoid of talent. They just don’t have enough of it in the right places. That’s something Bloom CAN fix without a complete tear down and rebuild.

Provide detail
Except JJ there’s no talent to backfill. These general statements are laughable. If there were real talent they would be playing
We just finished the “RUNWAY SEASON of YOUTH” which explicitly showed everyone theres no talent.

Punkk6 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 00:47 amMiss Woo is not a journalist , the front office leaks what they want her to write about . They have leaked exactly what they are going to do for the next several years.

Are you dense, man? That's the job of a reporter. To find out what the front office's plans are and to write about them. She's telling you their thought process right now. If you don't like it, put some pressure on ownership to do things differently.

Would you rather she lie to you or cover it up? If she wrote that they were going to spend a bunch of money next year and then they didn't, you'd accuse her, rightly, of being a shill.

Sooooooooooooooooo glad to see this happening.

I've dreaded it for too long and fought against it.

But now that we have the right man for the job, let the re-build begin.

I still think w/some smart moves (DFA-ing the dead wood, not wasting too many more PA's on Gorman/Walker, smart trades and maybe a couple "small" free agent signings) Bloom can WALK (re-build) and CHEW GUM (still field a decent 85+ win team) in 2026.

I'm excited for this Winter.

Let the roster re-build begin and start by getting rid of the DEAD WOOD!

JMO

swatski wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:45 pm

zbasspro wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:32 pm I would guess that ensures Oli stays. Doesn't sound like a whole lot of trades, outside of maybe a few vets waiving their NTCs. We knew it was going to be boring, and many even asked for it, but delaying it an extra year is extremely frustrating.

Of course Oli stays. With his knowledge of the game, his eye for talent along with his extraordinary in-game strategy, and his track record of development of the young talent on his roster, who else would Bloom want running the show into the foreseeable future?

I didn't know an MLB manager was responsible for development of young players.

MLB isn't the place to develop...that's the minor leagues.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 09:25 am

Punkk6 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 00:47 amMiss Woo is not a journalist , the front office leaks what they want her to write about . They have leaked exactly what they are going to do for the next several years.

Are you dense, man? That's the job of a reporter. To find out what the front office's plans are and to write about them. She's telling you their thought process right now. If you don't like it, put some pressure on ownership to do things differently.

Would you rather she lie to you or cover it up? If she wrote that they were going to spend a bunch of money next year and then they didn't, you'd accuse her, rightly, of being a shill.

Exactly. They are not going to spend a bunch of money. Most likely Oli will be back. Bloom will try to trade redundant pieces to get some value in areas of weakness. Don't expect block busters. The only real trade chips are guys you would really like to keep, like Donovan, or Winn. Walker and Gorman have very little value right now. Maybe some team thinks they can fix them and you will get something back. Maybe not. There is redundancy at C in the minors and big club, but Crooks hasn't exactly set the world on fire during his cup of coffee and Bernal is in a LONG slump. So things are not cut and dried. What will be interesting is to see what Bloom et. al, do. The FO has telegraphed that Oli will return. Will be interesting to see if that is true. I hope not, but am resigned to that happening. Trades will be interesting. Can Bloom get Nado and maybe WC or Gray to waive NTCs? Should he do so with Gray given no pitching depth? What sort of pressure is ownership exerting on the budget? Will Bloom have anywhere near even $150M to work with? Who knows... stay tuned..... At least there will be some direction. We may not like the direction, but there will be a plan in place.

Melville wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 08:22 am

2ninr wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 06:23 am

Melville wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:55 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:19 pm

Melville wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:17 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:08 pm

Melville wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:43 pm Woo is guilty of the worst kind of "journalism" - complete and undocumented speculation based on unidentified sources.
She has zero idea what Bloom is thinking.
She has no idea what he thinks of the roster.
She has no idea what DeWitt is willing to spend.

I like her chances of getting it right better than yours or mine.

Why?
She made it clear that she has never spoken to Bloom about his specific plans for 2026.
No different than you or I.
Gossip and speculation from unidentified resources is no more valuable than what can be found daily here.
Maybe less so.
After all, she has subscriptions to sell and her "sources" may have a personal agenda.

Yawn.

Correct response to her reporting.
The team was in control of a W/C on July 1 each of the past 2 seasons and faded down the stretch under some very poor leadership.
The notion of a complete tear down and multi-year rebuild is nonsense.
The team will win 79 this year after winning 83 last year.
In only needs to add half a dozen wins next year to get moving in the right direction - and then build from there.
Bloom knows that.
Even if Woo does not.
If Wetherholt can join Contreras and Burleson to give the team the beginning of a line-up foundation, it is not hard to see how it starts to come together.
Winn and Donovan can then be complimentary pieces, which they are best suited for.
Add 2 starting pitchers and a middle order RH hitting outfielder for next year, while kicking The Marmot and his staff to the curb, is all that is then needed to begin making progress next year.
Very easily done with the trade assets and expected payroll for next year.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

See the bolded. You have no way of knowing that, yet you accused Woo of the same thing. Woo has a lot better grip on it than you do. I had to laugh. They aren't doing anything you claim they will. That's all what you want them to do. Not happening. Any of it. But we can all quit guessing in a couple months.

One, of course Bloom is aware that 6 more wins each of the last 2 season would have put the team into the post-season conversation - and moving in the right direction.
Reading the standings is basic stuff.
I have a high level of confidence Bloom can read.
Two, you have no idea what I want the team to do - nor did I state what they will do.
I simply stated with perfect analysis what is needed.
Three, what I did say is that the team does not need a complete tear down and multi-year rebuild.
That is obviously correct.
Four, I never guess.
I analyze.
Five, you are correct about one thing - we will be able to observe Bloom soon.
Three,

Love your consistency Mel! See you at the rebuild.

2ninr wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 11:26 am

Melville wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 08:22 am

2ninr wrote: ↑20 Sep 2025 06:23 am

Melville wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 22:55 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:19 pm

Melville wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:17 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 19:08 pm

Melville wrote: ↑19 Sep 2025 18:43 pm Woo is guilty of the worst kind of "journalism" - complete and undocumented speculation based on unidentified sources.
She has zero idea what Bloom is thinking.
She has no idea what he thinks of the roster.
She has no idea what DeWitt is willing to spend.

I like her chances of getting it right better than yours or mine.

Why?
She made it clear that she has never spoken to Bloom about his specific plans for 2026.
No different than you or I.
Gossip and speculation from unidentified resources is no more valuable than what can be found daily here.
Maybe less so.
After all, she has subscriptions to sell and her "sources" may have a personal agenda.

Yawn.

Correct response to her reporting.
The team was in control of a W/C on July 1 each of the past 2 seasons and faded down the stretch under some very poor leadership.
The notion of a complete tear down and multi-year rebuild is nonsense.
The team will win 79 this year after winning 83 last year.
In only needs to add half a dozen wins next year to get moving in the right direction - and then build from there.
Bloom knows that.
Even if Woo does not.
If Wetherholt can join Contreras and Burleson to give the team the beginning of a line-up foundation, it is not hard to see how it starts to come together.
Winn and Donovan can then be complimentary pieces, which they are best suited for.
Add 2 starting pitchers and a middle order RH hitting outfielder for next year, while kicking The Marmot and his staff to the curb, is all that is then needed to begin making progress next year.
Very easily done with the trade assets and expected payroll for next year.
Easy.
Obvious.
Correct.

See the bolded. You have no way of knowing that, yet you accused Woo of the same thing. Woo has a lot better grip on it than you do. I had to laugh. They aren't doing anything you claim they will. That's all what you want them to do. Not happening. Any of it. But we can all quit guessing in a couple months.

One, of course Bloom is aware that 6 more wins each of the last 2 season would have put the team into the post-season conversation - and moving in the right direction.
Reading the standings is basic stuff.
I have a high level of confidence Bloom can read.
Two, you have no idea what I want the team to do - nor did I state what they will do.
I simply stated with perfect analysis what is needed.
Three, what I did say is that the team does not need a complete tear down and multi-year rebuild.
That is obviously correct.
Four, I never guess.
I analyze.
Five, you are correct about one thing - we will be able to observe Bloom soon.

Love your consistency Mel! See you at the rebuild.

Consistency?
Always.
Typing skills?
A bit unpredictable.

One move for 2027 should be signing Freddy Peralta, assuming the Brewers don't lock him up next year, and assuming he has another great year next year. You gotta sign ace level guys when they're available and that would speed up a rebuild.