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Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:55 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:45 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:38 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:21 pm

Strummer Jones wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:02 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 12:36 pm

Strummer Jones wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 12:01 pm NO.

I like Bader, and I'm glad he's having a good year. But because of that he's going to get significantly more money than he's really worth. We've given out far too many of those contracts. It's a big reason why we're in the spot we're in.

then where do you find someone who DOESN'T cost more than they are worth, either in $ or talent? Maybe the true "Market price" is higher than we think it is and we just don't like reality.

We don't have anyone in our system with a realistic CF ceiling of 127 OPS+/4.5 WAR.

Well, that's the the trick, isn't it?

The vast majority of free agents will probably make more than they're worth. But that's the price you pay for a Juan Soto or someone like that. Not a Harrison Bader. Or a Dexter Fowler, or Brett Cecil, or Steven Matz, etc.

if the VAST Majority costs X, by definition, that IS what they are worth. The market defines worth. There are always outliers, but the vast majority can't be "an outlier".

Stay away from outliers.

2025: 830 OPS
2024: .657 OPS
2023: .622 OPS
2022: .650 OPS

Victor Scott is an outlier then compared to normal MLB hitting. Even Bader's career norm is a big improvement. But who else would you have in mind?

A .220 or so hitting gold glove caliber center fielder 9th place hitter who steals 30-40 bases like Scott isn’t the problem on the team. They need to improve on guys like noot walker and Gorman who hit like they are no hit gold glove caliber fielders and are supposed to be middle of the order bats but in Gorman and walker suck at hitting and fielding. Those are the ones the team needs to upgrade from. Walker and Gorman contribute nothing on offense or defense. Upgrade from them and Scott is fine hitting ninth

This is the correct answer. If our corner guys were actually hitting them we can easily live with Scott in CF.

3dender wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 18:07 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:35 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:29 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:17 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.

Just move on.

to who? I'm asking for better realistic alternatives?

Why do they need an alternative? Upgrade on walker noot and Gorman who are supposed to bat in positions other than ninth and who don’t play gold glove defense walker and Gorman who are bad and can’t hit either. Upgrade from them and you can live with Scott hitting ninth playing gold glove defense and stealing 30-40 bases. Don’t fall for bader he’s a career low average low on base low ops hitter don’t fall in love with his good stats this season.
They need to spend what little money they are Allowed to spend on the rotation

Who are the upgrades then?

Any name suggested will either be too expensive or too risky for most of the armchair GMs here. Or not an upgrade.

An upgrade in CF or 4th OF for 2026 is very close to the last thing this organization needs to worry about, let alone spend money on.

For the corners? For the lineup? For any position? Names?

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 12:30 pm

Jatalk wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 11:20 am We already have Bader caliber outfielders. Don’t need another one. I’m betting on performance decline.

except we don't. If you have a better suggestion, by all means submit it.

We absolutely DO need new OFers that don't exist in our org.

He is a good glove but a proven inconsistent hitter. I’m discounting his performance this year.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 20:33 pm

3dender wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 18:07 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:35 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:29 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:17 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.

Just move on.

to who? I'm asking for better realistic alternatives?

Why do they need an alternative? Upgrade on walker noot and Gorman who are supposed to bat in positions other than ninth and who don’t play gold glove defense walker and Gorman who are bad and can’t hit either. Upgrade from them and you can live with Scott hitting ninth playing gold glove defense and stealing 30-40 bases. Don’t fall for bader he’s a career low average low on base low ops hitter don’t fall in love with his good stats this season.
They need to spend what little money they are Allowed to spend on the rotation

Who are the upgrades then?

Any name suggested will either be too expensive or too risky for most of the armchair GMs here. Or not an upgrade.

An upgrade in CF or 4th OF for 2026 is very close to the last thing this organization needs to worry about, let alone spend money on.

For the corners? For the lineup? For any position? Names?

You seem to be hung up on how acquiring Bader would be better than acquiring anyone else for that role.

What I'm trying to explain to you is that for BDW, spending NO money is much better than spending a fair amount of money on Bader.

So I'm not the one who needs to name names here, you need to mount a convincing argument for why signing Bader will be better for DeWitt's bottom line than signing either nobody at all, or some waiver wire Hampson trash. I don't think you have a strong argument there, unless you can show how Harrison Bader will put tens of thousands more butts in seats.

A rookie mistake:

Championing a guy in his contract year with an .830 OPS, who had a .650ish OPS from 2022-2024.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 10:56 am Looks like he will become a FA.

On one hand, you may expect him to regress from this great year to his career norms.

OTOH, his career norms are miles ahead of Scott as a hitter. His defense isn't bad either. And we don't exactly have other great options in our OF. We need help from outside and if not Bader, we need to find someone else. And he won't cost Mike Trout money.

Absolutely not

Bader is the type of player the Cardinals SHOULD have been looking to sign for the bench in previous years, but signed Corey Dickersons instead. Unless they want a placeholder for 2026 (waiting for Baez?), there’s no need now. Church? He’s just more of the same.

no thanks!

Red7 wrote: ↑16 Sep 2025 13:28 pm.
Bader is the type of player the Cardinals SHOULD have been looking to sign for the bench in previous years, but signed Corey Dickersons instead. Unless they want a placeholder for 2026 (waiting for Baez?), there’s no need now. Church? He’s just more of the same.

That was the very next season after moving Bader.

Corey was coming off a .779 OPS season and had 7 seasons >.800
His bad season with StL was .698. Better than any season since 2021 for HB and better
than the majority of HB seasons. Dickerson had the better career IMO,
and until 2025 very few would want Bader who was coming off OPS+ seasons
of 85, 69, and 86.

I'd move on and it's possible that Bader has too.

renostl wrote: ↑16 Sep 2025 14:42 pm

Red7 wrote: ↑16 Sep 2025 13:28 pm.
Bader is the type of player the Cardinals SHOULD have been looking to sign for the bench in previous years, but signed Corey Dickersons instead. Unless they want a placeholder for 2026 (waiting for Baez?), there’s no need now. Church? He’s just more of the same.

That was the very next season after moving Bader.

Corey was coming off a .779 OPS season and had 7 seasons >.800
His bad season with StL was .698. Better than any season since 2021 for HB and better
than the majority of HB seasons. Dickerson had the better career IMO,
and until 2025 very few would want Bader who was coming off OPS+ seasons
of 85, 69, and 86.

I'd move on and it's possible that Bader has too.

I don’t want bader back and bader will probably want to go to a contending team and or go to the team with the highest offer neither of which the cardinals will be so people don’t need to worry about the cardinals signing him

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:35 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:29 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:17 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.

Just move on.

to who? I'm asking for better realistic alternatives?

Why do they need an alternative? Upgrade on walker noot and Gorman who are supposed to bat in positions other than ninth and who don’t play gold glove defense walker and Gorman who are bad and can’t hit either. Upgrade from them and you can live with Scott hitting ninth playing gold glove defense and stealing 30-40 bases. Don’t fall for bader he’s a career low average low on base low ops hitter don’t fall in love with his good stats this season.
They need to spend what little money they are Allowed to spend on the rotation

Who are the upgrades then?

Any name suggested will either be too expensive or too risky for most of the armchair GMs here. Or not an upgrade.

They are going to promote from within.

This team is going to be bad for minimum 2 more years, with next year being worse w/l wise than this year.

But if they can hit on a few players they’ll be better in the long run.

This team isn’t signing, nor does it need, Harry Bader.

Love the Master when he was with the Cards. But both have moved on. No, thanks.

Rojo Johnson wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:46 pm Dag nabitt. It’s this kind of frontier gibberish thinking that got this franchise where it is today. Just can’t let the ghost of Moe know how highly he is thought of (NOT!). He has brainwashed you as surely as you are sitting there right now with your Bermuda shorts and striped bow tie on. Give it a rest.

Hey Rojo, you forgot the sweater tied around his shoulders! Maybe Mozo the Clown can get a job with LLBean as a catalogue model after this year.