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Bomber1 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 14:22 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 13:33 pm Chat GPT estimates Marmol's salary between 3 and 4 million annually.

Ha ha ha that’s hilarious!

Mozeliak makes $ 2 million; you really think Marmol’s extension is for $3-4 mil per?

Thanks for the laugh.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 14:41 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 14:22 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 13:33 pm Chat GPT estimates Marmol's salary between 3 and 4 million annually.

Ha ha ha that’s hilarious!

Mozeliak makes $ 2 million; you really think Marmol’s extension is for $3-4 mil per?

Thanks for the laugh.

You don't read very well do ya? I said Chat GPT estimated the salary. I believe Marmol is between 1 and 2 million.

P.S. I think you are clueless how much Mozeliak has been paid.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 14:41 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 14:22 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 13:33 pm Chat GPT estimates Marmol's salary between 3 and 4 million annually.

Ha ha ha that’s hilarious!

Mozeliak makes $ 2 million; you really think Marmol’s extension is for $3-4 mil per?

Thanks for the laugh.

You don't read very well do ya? I said Chat GPT estimated the salary. I believe Marmol is between 1 and 2 million.

P.S. I think you are clueless how much Mozeliak has been paid.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 12:50 pm Saggese hitting clean-up today, yet another example of Oli's brilliant managing.

bccardsfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:48 am

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:38 am Instilling a winning culture matters

Accountability matters

Exactly. Sound fundamental play matters, even when you have substandard hitting, guys should make the plays. They should be able to advance runners, hit sac flies, not make stupid baserunning errors, etc.... This needs to be restored. Marmol is clearly not the guy to do it.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:27 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:48 am

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:38 am Instilling a winning culture matters

Accountability matters

Exactly. Sound fundamental play matters, even when you have substandard hitting, guys should make the plays. They should be able to advance runners, hit sac flies, not make stupid baserunning errors, etc.... This needs to be restored. Marmol is clearly not the guy to do it.

Professional athletes need to be managed on fundamental play?

What do coaches do?

Bomber1 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:33 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:27 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:48 am

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:38 am Instilling a winning culture matters

Accountability matters

Exactly. Sound fundamental play matters, even when you have substandard hitting, guys should make the plays. They should be able to advance runners, hit sac flies, not make stupid baserunning errors, etc.... This needs to be restored. Marmol is clearly not the guy to do it.

Professional athletes need to be managed on fundamental play?

What do coaches do?

He is ultimately responsible for what his coaches do or don’t do as are all Major League Managers.

Which you obviously know.

Banner29 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:40 pm Won’t even read the column. Absolutely zero reason to bring him back. Zero.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:36 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:33 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:27 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:48 am

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:38 am Instilling a winning culture matters

Accountability matters

Exactly. Sound fundamental play matters, even when you have substandard hitting, guys should make the plays. They should be able to advance runners, hit sac flies, not make stupid baserunning errors, etc.... This needs to be restored. Marmol is clearly not the guy to do it.

Professional athletes need to be managed on fundamental play?

What do coaches do?

He is ultimately responsible for what his coaches do or don’t do as are all Major League Managers.

Which you obviously know.

Is he? What about the players? How many revolving door coaches has he had? Did he pick them? Did he offer them contracts?

I completely disagree
First, when do players take personal responsibility for little mental errors? When do you hold the coaches responsible?

So Oli should go over to a player after dumb AB and council them? He should proactively tell these players before an AB to take a strike after a pitcher tosses a couple of walks? 3n coach doesn't do that?

What's the purpose of a coach?

Bomber1 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:54 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:36 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:33 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:27 pm

bccardsfan wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:48 am

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 09:38 am Instilling a winning culture matters

Accountability matters

Exactly. Sound fundamental play matters, even when you have substandard hitting, guys should make the plays. They should be able to advance runners, hit sac flies, not make stupid baserunning errors, etc.... This needs to be restored. Marmol is clearly not the guy to do it.

Professional athletes need to be managed on fundamental play?

What do coaches do?

He is ultimately responsible for what his coaches do or don’t do as are all Major League Managers.

Which you obviously know.

Is he? What about the players? How many revolving door coaches has he had? Did he pick them? Did he offer them contracts?

I completely disagree
First, when do players take personal responsibility for little mental errors? When do you hold the coaches responsible?

So Oli should go over to a player after dumb AB and council them? He should proactively tell these players before an AB to take a strike after a pitcher tosses a couple of walks? 3n coach doesn't do that?

What's the purpose of a coach?

Players should always take personal responsibility for dumb mental errors. If they don’t, that is on the Manager.

I believe Mozeliak has actually hired some or all of Marmol’s coaches.
So what?

Maybe the team should dfa all the dumb players and fire all the coaches but keep Marmol.

That’s just not how it works.

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:42 pm

Banner29 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:40 pm Won’t even read the column. Absolutely zero reason to bring him back. Zero.

Yeah, why entertain a differing, thought out position

Banner29 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 16:06 pm

scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:42 pm

Banner29 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 15:40 pm Won’t even read the column. Absolutely zero reason to bring him back. Zero.

Yeah, why entertain a differing, thought out position

Same reason I won’t for crackheads and skitzos…….

Jatalk wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 16:01 pm My post is a little off track. I just don’t want to start a thread on Oli. There are already so many.

I think there is a 60 to 70% chance they keep him for next year. That is telling me several things. It’s not telling me the owner is cheap and does not want to eat a year of his contract. I think it goes deeper than that. It tells me:

1. They believe the current coaching staff is doing their job both in developing players and providing an environment that the young guys like to play in. We really don’t know what the players think about the coaching staff but retaining Oli tells me it is not a problem.

2. Winning is not the emphasis for 2026. This may be an obvious statement, but it says the longer term rebuild is the plan. I can see Oli as a placeholder doing no damage to the long term plan.

3. I think it signals no big FA signings for 2026. Again may be an obvious statement. I’m not at all confident FA’s will sign to an Oli led team.

4. Bloom sees other priorities other than coaching such as building the roster.

I just think they keep Oli and the current staff for the most part. I don’t think it is a money issue. Bloom has to have some confidence in Oli for some reason.

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑14 Sep 2025 10:40 am So, Hochman's argument seems to hang on two points. One, that the 2025 team is slightly overperforming, based on the Pythagorean prediction, and two that the bullpen ERA is not bad. But is three games above the Pythagorean prediction remarkable? Hochman doesn't give us any context or standard deviation. Is there reason to think that those extra games have anything to do with the manager, rather than, say, Hererra hitting more hrs than expected? And is the bullpen ERA really a measure of how well the relievers are being used? Maybe, but indirectly.

Of course, there is a shell game here. When you want to make the case that the manager or coaches are good, you point to specific team successes and give them credit. But when someone notices that team generally is failing, you blame individual player performances.

You can look at the data Hochman has presented and conclude that Marmol is, at best, a mediocre manager who has benefitted from some good young relievers.

Is that enough to keep him another season? Maybe in an average year you say why not let him complete his contract. But under the current circumstances--where the organization should above all else be trying to prove to the fan base that the Mozeliak era is over--no way. Marmol isn't even close to a good enough manager or team leader to be considered for the job.