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Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 11:45 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 11:07 am

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 08:54 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 18:54 pm

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 11:37 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 00:33 am

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 10:13 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 10:00 am

Ace07 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 07:22 am Here are the prospects who have been #1 overall on MLB.com for the Cardinals:

Colby Rasmus, 2009 1st
Oscar Taveras, 2013 1st
Stephen Piscotty, 2015 1st
Dylan Carlson, 2020 1st overall
Jordan Walker, 2022 1st overall

Obviously different stories for each, but what an awful ROI on these players.

Taveras? A tragedy. Not the Cardinals fault for ROI.
Walker? Way too soon to judge.

Taveras never did anything on the field to suggest he was any better than Walker or Carlson. If anything, he was worse.

Taveras was bad, bad with a glove and bad with a stick. He didn't run well and lacked range in the outfield. He never got a chance to prove he could do better with time, but he was bad.

That's not real accurate.

Are you saying Taveras was a good major-league hitter? Are you saying he was a good fielder? If you don't agree with my position, fine, but make a case.

You're analysis is based on his 80 game MLB career when promoted at age 22??

The kids was one of the top prospects in all of baseball. He had a slash line of .320/.376/.892 in his minor league career. YEAH, THE KID COULD HIT!

He definitely did things on the field to show he could hit! C'mon, guy.

I hit over .400 in little league.

The point: Lots of guys hit well in double and triple A, but can't hit at the major league level. If you look at the entirety of Taveras' career, you see that he struggled more at every level as the quality of competition got tougher.

Bottom line: There's no reason to assume that Taveras would have turned out any better than Carlson or Walker. But people continue to project based on good minor-league numbers. What might have been....

If Carlson had (heaven forbid) gotten himself killed in February of 2022, you'd be in here saying how great things would have been if only Carlson hadn't offed himself.

First off .400 in little league SUCKS!!!! Lol

You keep saying his numbers dropped off at each level he progressed. Sure maybe his average went down a touch. The guys still tore up EVERY level he played at. He NEVER had an average season in the minors.

Your "he struggled more at every level" just isn’t the cade. There was never a struggle. Ever. DUDE COULD HIT!!!

I said I hit over .400. Not .400.

Let's keep the numbers in front of us:

__A: .386/.444/.584/1.028
_AA: .321/.380/.572/.953
AAA: .313/.358/.485/.843
MLB: .239/.278/.312/.590

Taveras was a terror in A ball, but so are a lot of guys you never heard of. He did great in double A. I'll give him that. But I wouldn't call an .843 OPS at Memphis tearing up triple A. There are currently 5 players at Memphis putting up better OPS.

And his major league record was horrible.

The guy wasn't a good fielder or a good runner. He had a big looping swing, which major league pitchers exploited to the hilt. Maybe he would have adjusted. Maybe not. But that's the point. We can't give the kid credit for what you think might have happened.

I'm giving him credit for being a phenomenal minor league hitter.

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 11:45 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 11:07 am

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 08:54 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 18:54 pm

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 11:37 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 00:33 am

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 10:13 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 10:00 am

Ace07 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 07:22 am Here are the prospects who have been #1 overall on MLB.com for the Cardinals:

Colby Rasmus, 2009 1st
Oscar Taveras, 2013 1st
Stephen Piscotty, 2015 1st
Dylan Carlson, 2020 1st overall
Jordan Walker, 2022 1st overall

Obviously different stories for each, but what an awful ROI on these players.

Taveras? A tragedy. Not the Cardinals fault for ROI.
Walker? Way too soon to judge.

Taveras never did anything on the field to suggest he was any better than Walker or Carlson. If anything, he was worse.

Taveras was bad, bad with a glove and bad with a stick. He didn't run well and lacked range in the outfield. He never got a chance to prove he could do better with time, but he was bad.

That's not real accurate.

Are you saying Taveras was a good major-league hitter? Are you saying he was a good fielder? If you don't agree with my position, fine, but make a case.

You're analysis is based on his 80 game MLB career when promoted at age 22??

The kids was one of the top prospects in all of baseball. He had a slash line of .320/.376/.892 in his minor league career. YEAH, THE KID COULD HIT!

He definitely did things on the field to show he could hit! C'mon, guy.

I hit over .400 in little league.

The point: Lots of guys hit well in double and triple A, but can't hit at the major league level. If you look at the entirety of Taveras' career, you see that he struggled more at every level as the quality of competition got tougher.

Bottom line: There's no reason to assume that Taveras would have turned out any better than Carlson or Walker. But people continue to project based on good minor-league numbers. What might have been....

If Carlson had (heaven forbid) gotten himself killed in February of 2022, you'd be in here saying how great things would have been if only Carlson hadn't offed himself.

First off .400 in little league SUCKS!!!! Lol

You keep saying his numbers dropped off at each level he progressed. Sure maybe his average went down a touch. The guys still tore up EVERY level he played at. He NEVER had an average season in the minors.

Your "he struggled more at every level" just isn’t the cade. There was never a struggle. Ever. DUDE COULD HIT!!!

I said I hit over .400. Not .400.

Let's keep the numbers in front of us:

__A: .386/.444/.584/1.028
_AA: .321/.380/.572/.953
AAA: .313/.358/.485/.843
MLB: .239/.278/.312/.590

Taveras was a terror in A ball, but so are a lot of guys you never heard of. He did great in double A. I'll give him that. But I wouldn't call an .843 OPS at Memphis tearing up triple A. There are currently 5 players at Memphis putting up better OPS.

And his major league record was horrible.

The guy wasn't a good fielder or a good runner. He had a big looping swing, which major league pitchers exploited to the hilt. Maybe he would have adjusted. Maybe not. But that's the point. We can't give the kid credit for what you think might have happened.

Or discredit for what you think might have happened. A short, below average span at the top level, at age 22 doesn't really mean squat.

kscardsfan wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 11:57 am

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 11:45 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 11:07 am

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑24 Aug 2025 08:54 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 18:54 pm

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 11:37 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 00:33 am

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 10:13 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 10:00 am

Ace07 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 07:22 am Here are the prospects who have been #1 overall on MLB.com for the Cardinals:

Colby Rasmus, 2009 1st
Oscar Taveras, 2013 1st
Stephen Piscotty, 2015 1st
Dylan Carlson, 2020 1st overall
Jordan Walker, 2022 1st overall

Obviously different stories for each, but what an awful ROI on these players.

Taveras? A tragedy. Not the Cardinals fault for ROI.
Walker? Way too soon to judge.

Taveras never did anything on the field to suggest he was any better than Walker or Carlson. If anything, he was worse.

Taveras was bad, bad with a glove and bad with a stick. He didn't run well and lacked range in the outfield. He never got a chance to prove he could do better with time, but he was bad.

That's not real accurate.

Are you saying Taveras was a good major-league hitter? Are you saying he was a good fielder? If you don't agree with my position, fine, but make a case.

You're analysis is based on his 80 game MLB career when promoted at age 22??

The kids was one of the top prospects in all of baseball. He had a slash line of .320/.376/.892 in his minor league career. YEAH, THE KID COULD HIT!

He definitely did things on the field to show he could hit! C'mon, guy.

I hit over .400 in little league.

The point: Lots of guys hit well in double and triple A, but can't hit at the major league level. If you look at the entirety of Taveras' career, you see that he struggled more at every level as the quality of competition got tougher.

Bottom line: There's no reason to assume that Taveras would have turned out any better than Carlson or Walker. But people continue to project based on good minor-league numbers. What might have been....

If Carlson had (heaven forbid) gotten himself killed in February of 2022, you'd be in here saying how great things would have been if only Carlson hadn't offed himself.

First off .400 in little league SUCKS!!!! Lol

You keep saying his numbers dropped off at each level he progressed. Sure maybe his average went down a touch. The guys still tore up EVERY level he played at. He NEVER had an average season in the minors.

Your "he struggled more at every level" just isn’t the cade. There was never a struggle. Ever. DUDE COULD HIT!!!

I said I hit over .400. Not .400.

Let's keep the numbers in front of us:

__A: .386/.444/.584/1.028
_AA: .321/.380/.572/.953
AAA: .313/.358/.485/.843
MLB: .239/.278/.312/.590

Taveras was a terror in A ball, but so are a lot of guys you never heard of. He did great in double A. I'll give him that. But I wouldn't call an .843 OPS at Memphis tearing up triple A. There are currently 5 players at Memphis putting up better OPS.

And his major league record was horrible.

The guy wasn't a good fielder or a good runner. He had a big looping swing, which major league pitchers exploited to the hilt. Maybe he would have adjusted. Maybe not. But that's the point. We can't give the kid credit for what you think might have happened.

Or discredit for what you think might have happened. A short, below average span at the top level, at age 22 doesn't really mean squat.

It means more than what the kid did at Springfield.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 08:49 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑23 Aug 2025 00:33 am

Red Bird Classic wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 10:13 am

Cranny wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 10:00 am

Ace07 wrote: ↑22 Aug 2025 07:22 am Here are the prospects who have been #1 overall on MLB.com for the Cardinals:

Colby Rasmus, 2009 1st
Oscar Taveras, 2013 1st
Stephen Piscotty, 2015 1st
Dylan Carlson, 2020 1st overall
Jordan Walker, 2022 1st overall

Obviously different stories for each, but what an awful ROI on these players.

Taveras? A tragedy. Not the Cardinals fault for ROI.
Walker? Way too soon to judge.

Taveras never did anything on the field to suggest he was any better than Walker or Carlson. If anything, he was worse.

Taveras was bad, bad with a glove and bad with a stick. He didn't run well and lacked range in the outfield. He never got a chance to prove he could do better with time, but he was bad.

That's not real accurate.

RBC likes to pretend that he doesn’t remember that Taveras was coming off of ankle surgery and hadn’t had a full offseason to truly recover.

He did run well and was a solid defender before the injury, and there would’ve been no sane reason to not expect the athleticism to return in time.

The ankle injury was indeed severe and ended his 2023 season. It seems incredulous that knowing that, the Cards made him play on a still injured ankle at the MLB level as a rookie who turned 22 years old in June. They traded RF Allen Craig and Joe Kelly to Boston for John Lackey and turned to Taveras to play RF every day. Craig was awful before he was traded so the baseline in RF was very low; maybe they just figured Taveras could be no worse than Craig and would improve over time. However, he was probably much worse than they expected. Grichuk and Bourjos were also awful so the just stuck with him, I guess.

.325 .373 .524 .897 Taveras Memphis 209 PA from Apr 3 to May 28, 2014
.189 .225 .297 .522 Taveras St Louis 40 PA from May 31 to Jun 11, 2014
.292 .358 .417 .775 Taveras Mempis 53 PA from Jun 13 to Jun 27, 2014
.249 .288 .315 .603 Taveras St Louis 208 PA from Jul 1 to Sep 28, 2014