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Goldfan wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:39 pm

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:59 pm Let me give yall a little history lesson

Back in 2011, when TLR resigned, it was apparent that BDW and Mo were absolutely overjoyed, because “The Load” was going out the door at years end.

TLR had the gravitas to challenge the GM and by proxy the owner to improve his teams and he wanted certain players here and certain players gone

Mo got a shot in at TLR by trading away Chris Duncan too

BDW and Mo starting in 2012 wanted to control everything with no backtalk from dugout, hired Matheny who was on verge of bankruptcy, hired Shildt who was quickly fired when he challenged Mo, and Marmol who is one of the youngest and lowest paid MLB managers

Toss in HackGate in 2015 when BDW and Mo played the plausible deniability card and orchestrated a back room deal with Manfred to make Correa the fall guy, don’t forget BDW chaired the committee that hired Manfred, and also the Judge in Texas didn’t allow Correa to say anything at his trial, Correa played nice, served time and I’m sure got a fat hush money wad for doing so.

It’s literally been a feces show for about a decade.

They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.

They killed a Golden Goose due to their own insecurities and poor decision making

This franchise is close to being the Pirates right now and I doubt BDW or BDW3 will give Bloom free rein to run the organization as he sees fit.

The owner and Mo have put major dent in this Organization that will be Long Lasting.

Buckle up!

You forgot the enormous Sized Ego of MO……he wanted credit so Badly for creating some sort of NEW Cardinals Way that was in place during that season Schildty ran off 17……. The team was going nowhere under this most likely analytically run MO/Gersch system. Schildty deviated and went back to old school Cardinals Baseball……ran off 17 and made playoffs. Thought he had the clout to keep his approach, but as now the famous “winning isn’t everything” quote from Mo clearly exposed……Winning takes a back seat to MO’s SYSTEM and EGO. Fired the 17 in row streak playoff manager……theres your Philosophical Differences. And Schildty all but admitted as much

Goldfan wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:47 pm

Hazelwood72 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:42 pm

Goldfan wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:39 pm

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:59 pm Let me give yall a little history lesson

Back in 2011, when TLR resigned, it was apparent that BDW and Mo were absolutely overjoyed, because “The Load” was going out the door at years end.

TLR had the gravitas to challenge the GM and by proxy the owner to improve his teams and he wanted certain players here and certain players gone

Mo got a shot in at TLR by trading away Chris Duncan too

BDW and Mo starting in 2012 wanted to control everything with no backtalk from dugout, hired Matheny who was on verge of bankruptcy, hired Shildt who was quickly fired when he challenged Mo, and Marmol who is one of the youngest and lowest paid MLB managers

Toss in HackGate in 2015 when BDW and Mo played the plausible deniability card and orchestrated a back room deal with Manfred to make Correa the fall guy, don’t forget BDW chaired the committee that hired Manfred, and also the Judge in Texas didn’t allow Correa to say anything at his trial, Correa played nice, served time and I’m sure got a fat hush money wad for doing so.

It’s literally been a feces show for about a decade.

They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.

They killed a Golden Goose due to their own insecurities and poor decision making

This franchise is close to being the Pirates right now and I doubt BDW or BDW3 will give Bloom free rein to run the organization as he sees fit.

The owner and Mo have put major dent in this Organization that will be Long Lasting.

Buckle up!

You forgot the enormous Sized Ego of MO……he wanted credit so Badly for creating some sort of NEW Cardinals Way that was in place during that season Schildty ran off 17……. The team was going nowhere under this most likely analytically run MO/Gersch system. Schildty deviated and went back to old school Cardinals Baseball……ran off 17 and made playoffs. Thought he had the clout to keep his approach, but as now the famous “winning isn’t everything” quote from Mo clearly exposed……Winning takes a back seat to MO’s SYSTEM and EGO. Fired the 17 in row streak playoff manager……theres your Philosophical Differences. And Schildty all but admitted as much

You just described my “last straw” with Mozo the Clown. I didn’t think much of his “leadership” from 2016 on, but firing Shildt showed the baseball world how petty and stupid Mozo really is.

I think this entire giant Clusterphuck we’re currently experiencing was Solely due to BDW/MO thinking they were the straw that stirred the drink in the TLR era, were jealous, didn’t want to bend to TLR, and wanted to be the Main Character going forward after they led TLR/Dunc out…….and THIS mess is what we have.

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:59 pm Let me give yall a little history lesson

Back in 2011, when TLR resigned, it was apparent that BDW and Mo were absolutely overjoyed, because “The Load” was going out the door at years end.

TLR had the gravitas to challenge the GM and by proxy the owner to improve his teams and he wanted certain players here and certain players gone

Mo got a shot in at TLR by trading away Chris Duncan too

BDW and Mo starting in 2012 wanted to control everything with no backtalk from dugout, hired Matheny who was on verge of bankruptcy, hired Shildt who was quickly fired when he challenged Mo, and Marmol who is one of the youngest and lowest paid MLB managers

Toss in HackGate in 2015 when BDW and Mo played the plausible deniability card and orchestrated a back room deal with Manfred to make Correa the fall guy, don’t forget BDW chaired the committee that hired Manfred, and also the Judge in Texas didn’t allow Correa to say anything at his trial, Correa played nice, served time and I’m sure got a fat hush money wad for doing so.

It’s literally been a feces show for about a decade.

They made their bed and now they have to lay in it.

They killed a Golden Goose due to their own insecurities and poor decision making

This franchise is close to being the Pirates right now and I doubt BDW or BDW3 will give Bloom free rein to run the organization as he sees fit.

The owner and Mo have put major dent in this Organization that will be Long Lasting.

Buckle up!

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:11 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 13:19 pm Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

RobbieRe wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:11 pm I know that Mo did not want to be challenged by his manager. He did not like Tony challenging the GM.

Seriously, was it ever revealed what the “philosophical differences” that Mo had with Mike Shildt? Was it that Shildt was challenging him — or was it Shildt’s decision making in the Cardinals’ playoff game against the Dodgers?

Pathetic.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 22:45 pm

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:11 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 13:19 pm Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 23:52 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 22:45 pm

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:11 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 13:19 pm Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

For a long time this ownership was great and had this organization going in the right direction. What is hard to understand is what changed?

Is it a function of BDW III now being in charge and this is his vision and not his father's?

Have the prices of free agents went up so much they just don't want to get involved? If this, how does that explain letting the draft and develop model lag so much?

Given the value of this franchise, the tradition ownership was developing with the team hall of fame inductees, the crowds they were drawing, the complete change in messaging is just difficult to comprehend.

As much as I would like to put this all on the Dewitt's, the small mindedness of MO firing Shildt as pointed out in this thread makes him at least equally culpable, even if he was for the most part carrying out marching orders.

butsir01 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 00:50 am

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 23:52 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 22:45 pm

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:11 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 13:19 pm Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

For a long time this ownership was great and had this organization going in the right direction. What is hard to understand is what changed?

Is it a function of BDW III now being in charge and this is his vision and not his father's?

Have the prices of free agents went up so much they just don't want to get involved? If this, how does that explain letting the draft and develop model lag so much?

Given the value of this franchise, the tradition ownership was developing with the team hall of fame inductees, the crowds they were drawing, the complete change in messaging is just difficult to comprehend.

As much as I would like to put this all on the Dewitt's, the small mindedness of MO firing Shildt as pointed out in this thread makes him at least equally culpable, even if he was for the most part carrying out marching orders.

I see what you are saying. I do not believe the firing of Shildt happened without ownership's approval. Look at the approval of three consecutive managers without MLB managing experience. They had to approve those, too.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 01:56 am

butsir01 wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 00:50 am

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 23:52 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 22:45 pm

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:11 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 13:19 pm Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

For a long time this ownership was great and had this organization going in the right direction. What is hard to understand is what changed?

Is it a function of BDW III now being in charge and this is his vision and not his father's?

Have the prices of free agents went up so much they just don't want to get involved? If this, how does that explain letting the draft and develop model lag so much?

Given the value of this franchise, the tradition ownership was developing with the team hall of fame inductees, the crowds they were drawing, the complete change in messaging is just difficult to comprehend.

As much as I would like to put this all on the Dewitt's, the small mindedness of MO firing Shildt as pointed out in this thread makes him at least equally culpable, even if he was for the most part carrying out marching orders.

I see what you are saying. I do not believe the firing of Shildt happened without ownership's approval. Look at the approval of three consecutive managers without MLB managing experience. They had to approve those, too.

I am certain firing Shildt required ownership approval. But absent MO wanting to do so, it would not have happened, hence blaming MO for that one. It all ultimately comes back to ownership. But, MO had a large role in both doing exactly what they wanted to do, but also clearing out the underlings he either did not like or others. Lets not forget the hitting coach fiasco with Jeff Albert, where they cleared out a bunch of long time coaches to make Albert happy who promptly quit the following year. These are all little pieces that led us down this path, one by one. Getting rid of Chris Carpenter is another example from the coaching group.

ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 23:52 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 22:45 pm

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:11 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 13:19 pm Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose

I would prefer # 2 and get this club competitive in 2028 hopefully.

Otherwise I wish they’d sell.

For a long time this ownership was great and had this organization going in the right direction. What is hard to understand is what changed?

Is it a function of BDW III now being in charge and this is his vision and not his father's?

Have the prices of free agents went up so much they just don't want to get involved? If this, how does that explain letting the draft and develop model lag so much?

Given the value of this franchise, the tradition ownership was developing with the team hall of fame inductees, the crowds they were drawing, the complete change in messaging is just difficult to comprehend.

As much as I would like to put this all on the Dewitt's, the small mindedness of MO firing Shildt as pointed out in this thread makes him at least equally culpable, even if he was for the most part carrying out marching orders.

Chubbs0910 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 23:23 pm Why would any GM hire 3 straight rookie managers?

skeezix wrote: ↑18 Aug 2025 08:11 am Ownership - with advancing age often comes less energy and enthusiasm. The path has been cleared for BDWIII, who views himself as a real estate-extraordinaire, instead of a baseball executive. This could look like the transition from Gussie/Whitey to ABIII, and we all saw how that turned out.

Baseball Savant wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 18:11 pm

hmoss859 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 13:19 pm Now the owner has philosophical differences with his fan base

He will never win that battle until product improves

3 possible outcomes

1-Invest in major league roster, won’t happen, BDW will cry poor

2-Let Bloom tear it down to studs, with massive changes to players and manager/coaches

3-Sell the team

The spin coming from team will be infuriating in off season

There’s more misery on the way, BDW killed the Golden Goose