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Too bad some can't recognize a good player in real time right under their noses.
Noot trending for a +4 bWAR type season. That's a useful starting player while cost controlled for any team.
That's a useful starting player for most teams later on when he won't be cost controlled till likely age regression sets in, and for Noot would guess that's around when he hits 32 yrs. old or so.

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

Or you could just say he'll probably fall within the top 60 in multiple offensive categories. That means he's the second, maybe third best offensive player on most teams.

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 22:12 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:52 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

He has the benefit of leading the Cardinals in runs scored and home runs on 2025.

He has 22 more PA's than Donovan, 57 more than Scott, and 65 more than Winn - all of whom would be ahead of him if they hit leadoff and had his number of PA's
Of course he has scored more runs - given the massive advantages he has been given, it would be nearly impossible for him not to have.
Reality is, leading those 3 by a mere 3,5, and 7 is an underperformance.
Again, a handy player to have around in a supporting role - but not a key piece, a lineup anchor, for any serious contender.
Currently, the team has 6 bats who are far more important to the present and the future - and 2 more who almost certainly will be in another 60 days.

Nootbaar has rightfully been criticized over the years for not being healthy. Now, he is and that's getting used against him. Ok. He has more ABs than Donovan and Scott b/c those two can't hit LHP (yes, I know the leadoff hitter gets the most ABs). The reality is Nootbaar doesn't need to sit against LHP. You can't hold that against him, yet you are.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:10 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:02 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑27 May 2025 19:52 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 May 2025 19:09 pm

woofy25 wrote: ↑27 May 2025 18:43 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 May 2025 13:50 pm

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑27 May 2025 13:28 pm .209 .267 .330 .597

Just throwing this out there. I like Nootbaar and I know he's been streaky in the past, but he's gotta be more consistent. I'd take him being a bit more mediocre overall if it meant he wouldn't go through these long stretches of sucking.

People just to say his cold months were due to injury and if he could only stay healthy he could OPS > .800-.850.

He had something like a career .778 ops coming into the season. He’s had two seasons in the mid to high 780s. Hes in his baseball prime. Why is it so unimaginable that with a healthy season he could have an .800 OPS?

It’s the .850 and 600 PAs he has yet to prove.

lol so if an outfielder doesn’t have an .850 OPS he’s a fourth outfielder? lol I guess most outfielders are fourth outfielders then

I didn't say he's a 4th OFer. He should start. But he's not a Holliday or Ozuna, much less a Judge, Carroll, Trout or Stanton in his prime. He's not that Moto bat that more than 0 posters predicted he would turn into if healthy.

We have a good team right now, but not a great team. In order to get to the next level, we need another 100 RBI type bat. 3 teams have a TEAM ops of .790 or better. All 3 lead their divisions, including the NLC. In order to consistently compete with teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, even the Cubs as they are currently playing, our lineup will need another upgrade to the MOTO, not another .700-.800 OPS type Middle infielder. Dodgers have 4 players with OPS over .900. .900 shouldn't be considered an impossible target, even for OFers. We don't wanna be average. We want to be the best.

And how much did the dodgers spend for those .900 OPS players??? lol. The cardinals need good players lars is a good player. If you want .900 OPS players at every position it’s not happening. What the cardinals need are players who lengthen the line up. Lars is one of those players that does he’s a .780 to .800 OPS guy. They need more production from third and right field although walker is hitting better lately.
Lars is not a problem. I can complain masyn Winn isn’t Bobby Witt jr but he’s still a very good player and it’s silly to complain about that

I'm with you.
Those three teams will likely not finish over .790. Zero teams in 2024 finished over .781. They Yankees were 3rd at .762. The Phillies record is currently great and they have a .744 OPS.
There were literally 9 players in MLB to finish with a .900+ OPS in 2024. It's still early enough that stats are both over and under inflated for the 2025 season. They will normalize as the season progresses. All that said, I do agree with the people who say the Cardinals need a MOTO bat. Contreras will likely finish with higher numbers, but may not get to where some hoped. Arenado just isn't the guy anymore. Would much rather have Donovan hitting 2nd.

woofy25 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:01 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 22:12 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:52 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

He has the benefit of leading the Cardinals in runs scored and home runs on 2025.

He has 22 more PA's than Donovan, 57 more than Scott, and 65 more than Winn - all of whom would be ahead of him if they hit leadoff and had his number of PA's
Of course he has scored more runs - given the massive advantages he has been given, it would be nearly impossible for him not to have.
Reality is, leading those 3 by a mere 3,5, and 7 is an underperformance.
Again, a handy player to have around in a supporting role - but not a key piece, a lineup anchor, for any serious contender.
Currently, the team has 6 bats who are far more important to the present and the future - and 2 more who almost certainly will be in another 60 days.

Nootbaar has rightfully been criticized over the years for not being healthy. Now, he is and that's getting used against him. Ok. He has more ABs than Donovan and Scott b/c those two can't hit LHP (yes, I know the leadoff hitter gets the most ABs). The reality is Nootbaar doesn't need to sit against LHP. You can't hold that against him, yet you are.

You're better off jamming crochet needles into your ears than arguing with Melville, who permanently has his fingers in his.

woofy25 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:01 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 22:12 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:52 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

He has the benefit of leading the Cardinals in runs scored and home runs on 2025.

He has 22 more PA's than Donovan, 57 more than Scott, and 65 more than Winn - all of whom would be ahead of him if they hit leadoff and had his number of PA's
Of course he has scored more runs - given the massive advantages he has been given, it would be nearly impossible for him not to have.
Reality is, leading those 3 by a mere 3,5, and 7 is an underperformance.
Again, a handy player to have around in a supporting role - but not a key piece, a lineup anchor, for any serious contender.
Currently, the team has 6 bats who are far more important to the present and the future - and 2 more who almost certainly will be in another 60 days.

Nootbaar has rightfully been criticized over the years for not being healthy. Now, he is and that's getting used against him. Ok. He has more ABs than Donovan and Scott b/c those two can't hit LHP (yes, I know the leadoff hitter gets the most ABs). The reality is Nootbaar doesn't need to sit against LHP. You can't hold that against him, yet you are.

He pumps up a guy who is hitting .188 with a .287 OBP and .569 while criticizing Nootbaar his judgement is not good

AnExParrot wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:12 am

woofy25 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:01 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 22:12 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:52 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

He has the benefit of leading the Cardinals in runs scored and home runs on 2025.

He has 22 more PA's than Donovan, 57 more than Scott, and 65 more than Winn - all of whom would be ahead of him if they hit leadoff and had his number of PA's
Of course he has scored more runs - given the massive advantages he has been given, it would be nearly impossible for him not to have.
Reality is, leading those 3 by a mere 3,5, and 7 is an underperformance.
Again, a handy player to have around in a supporting role - but not a key piece, a lineup anchor, for any serious contender.
Currently, the team has 6 bats who are far more important to the present and the future - and 2 more who almost certainly will be in another 60 days.

Nootbaar has rightfully been criticized over the years for not being healthy. Now, he is and that's getting used against him. Ok. He has more ABs than Donovan and Scott b/c those two can't hit LHP (yes, I know the leadoff hitter gets the most ABs). The reality is Nootbaar doesn't need to sit against LHP. You can't hold that against him, yet you are.

You're better off jamming crochet needles into your ears than arguing with Melville, who permanently has his fingers in his.

Aaww [shirt]. That would hurt.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:18 am

AnExParrot wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:12 am

woofy25 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:01 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 22:12 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:52 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

He has the benefit of leading the Cardinals in runs scored and home runs on 2025.

He has 22 more PA's than Donovan, 57 more than Scott, and 65 more than Winn - all of whom would be ahead of him if they hit leadoff and had his number of PA's
Of course he has scored more runs - given the massive advantages he has been given, it would be nearly impossible for him not to have.
Reality is, leading those 3 by a mere 3,5, and 7 is an underperformance.
Again, a handy player to have around in a supporting role - but not a key piece, a lineup anchor, for any serious contender.
Currently, the team has 6 bats who are far more important to the present and the future - and 2 more who almost certainly will be in another 60 days.

Nootbaar has rightfully been criticized over the years for not being healthy. Now, he is and that's getting used against him. Ok. He has more ABs than Donovan and Scott b/c those two can't hit LHP (yes, I know the leadoff hitter gets the most ABs). The reality is Nootbaar doesn't need to sit against LHP. You can't hold that against him, yet you are.

You're better off jamming crochet needles into your ears than arguing with Melville, who permanently has his fingers in his.

Aaww [shirt]. That would hurt.

Not if you do it fast enough.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑27 May 2025 13:39 pm Looking for the walk. Makes him less aggressive. Swing on two strikes too often. Bad habit to get into.

Leads the team in HRs, second in RBI's, 3rd in OBP, 1st in Runs

Nothing to complain about

woofy25 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:01 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 22:12 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:52 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

He has the benefit of leading the Cardinals in runs scored and home runs on 2025.

He has 22 more PA's than Donovan, 57 more than Scott, and 65 more than Winn - all of whom would be ahead of him if they hit leadoff and had his number of PA's
Of course he has scored more runs - given the massive advantages he has been given, it would be nearly impossible for him not to have.
Reality is, leading those 3 by a mere 3,5, and 7 is an underperformance.
Again, a handy player to have around in a supporting role - but not a key piece, a lineup anchor, for any serious contender.
Currently, the team has 6 bats who are far more important to the present and the future - and 2 more who almost certainly will be in another 60 days.

Nootbaar has rightfully been criticized over the years for not being healthy. Now, he is and that's getting used against him. Ok. He has more ABs than Donovan and Scott b/c those two can't hit LHP (yes, I know the leadoff hitter gets the most ABs). The reality is Nootbaar doesn't need to sit against LHP. You can't hold that against him, yet you are.

Nootbaar is .236/.337/.361/.698 against LH pitching this year.
Which is actually worse than his career rate against LH pitching.
Not what any team should want against lefthanders from the leadoff spot.
Overall, his career .240ish BA (repeated again this year) is less the desirable for a leadoff hitter.
His 28 career stolen base total is just bad.
I am glad he is having a solid pedestrian season and is staying out of the emergency room.
He does one thing well - draws walks.
And, he will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gifts him with a high straight fastball.
But that is all there is to his game.
To his credit, he has remained healthy enough to be a solid role player this season.
But he is not a difference maker.
He is not a line-up anchor.
He is a lesser version of Matt Carpenter.
As I said when the season began, Nootbaar would actually make a very good #9 hitter - in this DH era that role has gained importance.
Scott should be hitting #1 and Nootbaar #9 against RH starting pitchers.
Remember, I was the ONLY person who CORRECTLY stated before the season began that Winn/Donovan/Contreras should hit 2-3-4 in the lineup.
There was a lot of pushback, but the fact is that once The Marmot did exactly as I advised with those 3 spots, the offense took off.
I was right then.
And I am right now.
To your final point, I hold nothing against any player.
Never for, never against.
But always with unbiased, fact based, analysis.

Melville wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:49 am

woofy25 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:01 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 22:12 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:52 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

He has the benefit of leading the Cardinals in runs scored and home runs on 2025.

He has 22 more PA's than Donovan, 57 more than Scott, and 65 more than Winn - all of whom would be ahead of him if they hit leadoff and had his number of PA's
Of course he has scored more runs - given the massive advantages he has been given, it would be nearly impossible for him not to have.
Reality is, leading those 3 by a mere 3,5, and 7 is an underperformance.
Again, a handy player to have around in a supporting role - but not a key piece, a lineup anchor, for any serious contender.
Currently, the team has 6 bats who are far more important to the present and the future - and 2 more who almost certainly will be in another 60 days.

Nootbaar has rightfully been criticized over the years for not being healthy. Now, he is and that's getting used against him. Ok. He has more ABs than Donovan and Scott b/c those two can't hit LHP (yes, I know the leadoff hitter gets the most ABs). The reality is Nootbaar doesn't need to sit against LHP. You can't hold that against him, yet you are.

Nootbaar is .236/.337/.361/.698 against LH pitching this year.
Which is actually worse than his career rate against LH pitching.
Not what any team should want against lefthanders from the leadoff spot.
Overall, his career .240ish BA (repeated again this year) is less the desirable for a leadoff hitter.
His 28 career stolen base total is just bad.
I am glad he is having a solid pedestrian season and is staying out of the emergency room.
He does one thing well - draws walks.
And, he will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gifts him with a high straight fastball.
But that is all there is to his game.
To his credit, he has remained healthy enough to be a solid role player this season.
But he is not a difference maker.
He is not a line-up anchor.
He is a lesser version of Matt Carpenter.
As I said when the season began, Nootbaar would actually make a very good #9 hitter - in this DH era that role has gained importance.
Scott should be hitting #1 and Nootbaar #9 against RH starting pitchers.
Remember, I was the ONLY person who CORRECTLY stated before the season began that Winn/Donovan/Contreras should hit 2-3-4 in the lineup.
There was a lot of pushback, but the fact is that once The Marmot did exactly as I advised with those 3 spots, the offense took off.
I was right then.
And I am right now.
To your final point, I hold nothing against any player.
Never for, never against.
But always with unbiased, fact based, analysis.

A .337 OBP is still above league average from the leadoff spot. The league average OBP from the 1st spot is .326.

Also he’s still better vs LHP than Donovan (.238/.294/.365 vs LHP) or VS2 (.208/.291/.250) or even Masyn Winn (.140/.228/.200).

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:18 am

AnExParrot wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:12 am

woofy25 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:01 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 22:12 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:52 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

He has the benefit of leading the Cardinals in runs scored and home runs on 2025.

He has 22 more PA's than Donovan, 57 more than Scott, and 65 more than Winn - all of whom would be ahead of him if they hit leadoff and had his number of PA's
Of course he has scored more runs - given the massive advantages he has been given, it would be nearly impossible for him not to have.
Reality is, leading those 3 by a mere 3,5, and 7 is an underperformance.
Again, a handy player to have around in a supporting role - but not a key piece, a lineup anchor, for any serious contender.
Currently, the team has 6 bats who are far more important to the present and the future - and 2 more who almost certainly will be in another 60 days.

Nootbaar has rightfully been criticized over the years for not being healthy. Now, he is and that's getting used against him. Ok. He has more ABs than Donovan and Scott b/c those two can't hit LHP (yes, I know the leadoff hitter gets the most ABs). The reality is Nootbaar doesn't need to sit against LHP. You can't hold that against him, yet you are.

You're better off jamming crochet needles into your ears than arguing with Melville, who permanently has his fingers in his.

Aaww [shirt]. That would hurt.

Yeah, I'd rather argue than self harm. Easier to shrug off as just losing a few minutes of my life as being wasted.

The whining about Nootbar is just dumb.
For those naysayers, a simple question: With whom do you want to replace him?
I'll wait...

Complaining about something without offering a reasonable alternative = whining.

PS for Melville: You often said "he should have been traded," but you offer nothing regarding who they should trade him for, except the vague and ubiquitous "prospects." Weak. It reveals a whining mentality rather than an intelligent one.
I assume you want him traded for Dylan Carlson, since you long championed him as a future star. Or maybe Conforto, since you repeatedly advocated they sign him for a long-term FA deal years ago (he's done nothing since). Or maybe Chris Taylor, as you also consistently championed him.

So let's have it Mel - for whom should they trade Noot? You say Noot will average 2.0 WAR 18 HR, .320 OBP and 750 OPS the next five years. Do you know that there is an average of one OF per team who does that in MLB?

Lars gets weird hate here. Sure some people overrate him, but he was a relatively unheralded prospect who has become a consistent .770 ops hitter and yet people hate on him and complain hes not an mvp player- whem he was never projected as one. And others say hes a 4th outfielder which is abszrd considering his production. Baseball isnt full of 800 ops players at every position anymore- or even corner outfield.

He has a .770 ops when league average is around .700 each year and league average for his position is about .720ish. So hes above average offensively for his position and defensively. He isnt one of the elite corner outfielders butbhe is a solid starter who also is cheap.

About the only legit criticisms are that he is streaky to an extent and of course health because hes always injured. But hes been consistently between .760 to .780 for years.

JDW wrote: ↑28 May 2025 09:19 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:18 am

AnExParrot wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:12 am

woofy25 wrote: ↑28 May 2025 08:01 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 22:12 pm

Monsieur De Treville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:52 pm

Melville wrote: ↑27 May 2025 21:46 pm Good to see him have a good day.
He has been rough at the plate, rough in the field, and rough on the bases.
Players will have good stretches and bad.
Mootbaar is and always will remain that which he has been throughout his career.
A passive, low BA, good OBP inconsistent hitter who will hit a HR every now and then when a pitcher gives him a gift with a straight FB at the top of the zone.
He is a handy role player - but not a key lineup cog.
That won't change.
In STL he has the added benefit of being an odd marketing piece and he is aware enough to take advantage by playing to that.

He has the benefit of leading the Cardinals in runs scored and home runs on 2025.

He has 22 more PA's than Donovan, 57 more than Scott, and 65 more than Winn - all of whom would be ahead of him if they hit leadoff and had his number of PA's
Of course he has scored more runs - given the massive advantages he has been given, it would be nearly impossible for him not to have.
Reality is, leading those 3 by a mere 3,5, and 7 is an underperformance.
Again, a handy player to have around in a supporting role - but not a key piece, a lineup anchor, for any serious contender.
Currently, the team has 6 bats who are far more important to the present and the future - and 2 more who almost certainly will be in another 60 days.

Nootbaar has rightfully been criticized over the years for not being healthy. Now, he is and that's getting used against him. Ok. He has more ABs than Donovan and Scott b/c those two can't hit LHP (yes, I know the leadoff hitter gets the most ABs). The reality is Nootbaar doesn't need to sit against LHP. You can't hold that against him, yet you are.

You're better off jamming crochet needles into your ears than arguing with Melville, who permanently has his fingers in his.

Aaww [shirt]. That would hurt.

Yeah, I'd rather argue than self harm. Easier to shrug off as just losing a few minutes of my life as being wasted.

That doesn't necessarily mean you'd be better off.

He's kind of like Randy Arozarena without the health.

Health is a big deal, but LN produces when healthy, so you have to give him that.

Conversely, someone like Tyler O'Neil is not only injury-prone, but we had to wait for him to get 'comfortable' after coming back from injury. Have fun, Baltimore...