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rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:27 am I'm still a NADO fan

BUT

He needs to be dropped to the #6 hole:

Noot
Winn
Donny
WillyC
Hererra
NADO

Right now, Marmol might want to go Herrera at 4 and stay with Contreras at 5 to see how it goes.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:26 am

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:11 amHe was at 105 2 days ago.

So he was barely above average two days ago. That really doesn't change anything. Do you want a barely average hitter, bottom 3rd among qualifying MLB 3B, hitting cleanup? What for? I love Arenado, but he's getting older. He's been steadily declining. It happens. This isn't an insult to him. It's appropriate for this point in his career. Best to get ahead of it and treat it accordingly.

Man y’all are exhausting, I don’t care about batting order. I was responding to the fact the he is an above average hitter for a 3Bman.

I’ve got an idea. He’s not going anywhere with his defense. So……….

Why don’t we treat him as a middle infielder, all glove, no stick. That would require us to attain a big bat elsewhere, corner outfield. Hit him six or seven, enjoy the extra base hit here and there and love you some defense.

Shady wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:27 am I'm still a NADO fan

BUT

He needs to be dropped to the #6 hole:

Noot
Winn
Donny
WillyC
Hererra
NADO

Right now, Marmol might want to go Herrera at 4 and stay with Contreras at 5 to see how it goes.

I'm a massive Ivan the Terrible fan!

BUT

I prefer the grizzled veteran WillyC (hitting 4th this season: .364 .417 .636 1.053) in the cleanup role w/Hererra behind him.

No need putting any unnecessary pressure on the kid, let the veteran carry the cleanup slot.

JMO

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:37 am

Shady wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:27 am I'm still a NADO fan

BUT

He needs to be dropped to the #6 hole:

Noot
Winn
Donny
WillyC
Hererra
NADO

Right now, Marmol might want to go Herrera at 4 and stay with Contreras at 5 to see how it goes.

I'm a massive Ivan the Terrible fan!

BUT

I prefer the grizzled veteran WillyC (hitting 4th this season: .364 .417 .636 1.053) in the cleanup role w/Hererra behind him.

No need putting any unnecessary pressure on the kid, let the veteran carry the cleanup slot.

JMO

I don't know. Herrera just has that look of a cleanup hitter. The Cardinals are probably good either way. They just need to make a move with Arenado. Heck, it might help him.

Shady wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:40 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:37 am

Shady wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:30 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:27 am I'm still a NADO fan

BUT

He needs to be dropped to the #6 hole:

Noot
Winn
Donny
WillyC
Hererra
NADO

Right now, Marmol might want to go Herrera at 4 and stay with Contreras at 5 to see how it goes.

I'm a massive Ivan the Terrible fan!

BUT

I prefer the grizzled veteran WillyC (hitting 4th this season: .364 .417 .636 1.053) in the cleanup role w/Hererra behind him.

No need putting any unnecessary pressure on the kid, let the veteran carry the cleanup slot.

JMO

I don't know. Herrera just has that look of a cleanup hitter. The Cardinals are probably good either way. They just need to make a move with Arenado. Heck, it might help him.

I've said for a while now this kid is looking to do damage when he takes his hacks, literally trying to knock the cover off the d a m n ball!

I don't like putting extra pressure on young players which is why I was so against using Winn in the lead-off spot last season over Noot (glad they realized that huge mistake).

But I'm fine if they slot him there w/WillyC behind him in the #5 spot.

But they have to drop NADO to the #6 slot, he's trying too hard hitting cleanup to be the guy he was for a decade but who he isn't anymore.

Drop him, let him relax a bit (he's very high strung) and he may get hot.

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:30 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:18 am
He was at like 170 a month ago probably. He’s been going down and down and down since the beginning. Over his last 30 games he’s hitting .224 with a .651 OPS. He’ll have an occasional game that reminds you of the Arenado of old but the fact is he is not and he shouldn’t be hitting 4th for this team.

That wasn’t what I was arguing. I don’t care as much as y’all about batting order. Everyone hated Contreras hitting up top in April and Herrera was hurt until a little over a week ago.

I was talking about your comment that his only positive trait is his defense. Which isn’t true l, unless you want to use recent small sample sizes which can change on a dime.

Hated Contreras hitting 2nd because he’s a run producer. He should have been hitting 3-5.

And here is the fact, Arenado has been 7th or worse on this team in OPS for 3 consecutive seasons. It’s not a “small” sample size. His bat is on decline. It’s no longer a positive trait for him.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:48 am
And here is the fact, Arenado has been 7th or worse on this team in OPS for 3 consecutive seasons. It’s not a “small” sample size. His bat is on decline. It’s no longer a positive trait for him.

That fact sounds like (bleep) and sure enough it is. He’s been 5th best over 3 years among Cardinals with at least 600 PAs over that time period. Behind Contreras, Goldschmidt, Donovan, and Nootbarr. To drop him to 6th, you’d have to drop the PAs to 350 to include Herrera.

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:02 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:48 am
And here is the fact, Arenado has been 7th or worse on this team in OPS for 3 consecutive seasons. It’s not a “small” sample size. His bat is on decline. It’s no longer a positive trait for him.

That fact sounds like (bleep) and sure enough it is. He’s been 5th best over 3 years among Cardinals with at least 600 PAs over that time period. Behind Contreras, Goldschmidt, Donovan, and Nootbarr. To drop him to 6th, you’d have to drop the PAs to 350 to include Herrera.

2025
Herrera
Donovan
Winn
Nootbaar
Contreras
Arenado

2024
Contreras
Herrera
Donovan
Nootbaar
Burleson
Winn
Arenado

2023
Contreras
Goldy
Gorman
Walker
Donovan
Nootbaar
Arenado

I guess you got me with 2025, he’s only 6th, but 6 points above VS2 and 7 ahead of Burly, so easily could be 8th.

Point remains he should be batting 6th, not 4th. He’s a shell of his former self at the plate.

I think Oli will end up dropping him, it'll just take him frustratingly long to do so when it's already more than 2 years overdue.

Arenado is a 98 OPS +. He's average. Hitting him 7th or 8th is just fine with me....You still have to have him somewhere in the lineup and he'll be just average wherever he hits. But, his fielding is part of why we are so dam.ned good defensively. We aren't putting Gorman in there for God's sake.

Leave Arenado alone. There is no trade value. If the Yankees go crazy and offer us somebody great...maybe...we trade. First, I'm not sure the Yankees have anybody who can help us this year..... Second, I'm not giving up on THIS YEAR. We ain't broke. Don't fix.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:18 am

PadsFS07 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:02 am

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 10:48 am
And here is the fact, Arenado has been 7th or worse on this team in OPS for 3 consecutive seasons. It’s not a “small” sample size. His bat is on decline. It’s no longer a positive trait for him.

That fact sounds like (bleep) and sure enough it is. He’s been 5th best over 3 years among Cardinals with at least 600 PAs over that time period. Behind Contreras, Goldschmidt, Donovan, and Nootbarr. To drop him to 6th, you’d have to drop the PAs to 350 to include Herrera.

2025
Herrera
Donovan
Winn
Nootbaar
Contreras
Arenado

2024
Contreras
Herrera
Donovan
Nootbaar
Burleson
Winn
Arenado

2023
Contreras
Goldy
Gorman
Walker
Donovan
Nootbaar
Arenado

I guess you got me with 2025, he’s only 6th, but 6 points above VS2 and 7 ahead of Burly, so easily could be 8th.

Point remains he should be batting 6th, not 4th. He’s a shell of his former self at the plate.

So over individual years, not collectively, which would make more sense… then you use guys with barely 300 PAs, and a couple with less than 300, to prove your point over 23 and 24? And it’s still not 7th or worse. I guess you got me.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:34 am Arenado is a 98 OPS +. He's average. Hitting him 7th or 8th is just fine with me....You still have to have him somewhere in the lineup and he'll be just average wherever he hits. But, his fielding is part of why we are so dam.ned good defensively. We aren't putting Gorman in there for God's sake.

Leave Arenado alone. There is no trade value. If the Yankees go crazy and offer us somebody great...maybe...we trade. First, I'm not sure the Yankees have anybody who can help us this year..... Second, I'm not giving up on THIS YEAR. We ain't broke. Don't fix.

Yanks will eventually get back J. Chissom and DJ LaMethieu so they don't need or want NADO.

And like you said, they won't give us anything we'd want.

I say keep him unless some team overwhelms Mo/Bloom.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:43 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:34 am Arenado is a 98 OPS +. He's average. Hitting him 7th or 8th is just fine with me....You still have to have him somewhere in the lineup and he'll be just average wherever he hits. But, his fielding is part of why we are so dam.ned good defensively. We aren't putting Gorman in there for God's sake.

Leave Arenado alone. There is no trade value. If the Yankees go crazy and offer us somebody great...maybe...we trade. First, I'm not sure the Yankees have anybody who can help us this year..... Second, I'm not giving up on THIS YEAR. We ain't broke. Don't fix.

Yanks will eventually get back J. Chissom and DJ LaMethieu so they don't need or want NADO.

And like you said, they won't give us anything we'd want.

I say keep him unless some team overwhelms Mo/Bloom.

Agreed, it’s doubtful anyone does. I don’t mind him on the team because his defense is so good, they just should move him down in the order.

Futuregm2 wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:45 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:43 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:34 am Arenado is a 98 OPS +. He's average. Hitting him 7th or 8th is just fine with me....You still have to have him somewhere in the lineup and he'll be just average wherever he hits. But, his fielding is part of why we are so dam.ned good defensively. We aren't putting Gorman in there for God's sake.

Leave Arenado alone. There is no trade value. If the Yankees go crazy and offer us somebody great...maybe...we trade. First, I'm not sure the Yankees have anybody who can help us this year..... Second, I'm not giving up on THIS YEAR. We ain't broke. Don't fix.

Yanks will eventually get back J. Chissom and DJ LaMethieu so they don't need or want NADO.

And like you said, they won't give us anything we'd want.

I say keep him unless some team overwhelms Mo/Bloom.

Agreed, it’s doubtful anyone does. I don’t mind him on the team because his defense is so good, they just should move him down in the order.

I'm keeping an eye on M. Muncy in every days box score, the Dodgers are really the only team who would take the contract and he'd run as fast as he could to accept a trade.

Low probability it happens and I'm in no rush to trade him as his defense alone is worth a lot.

As an aside, I don't think I've ever seen two more powerful arms on the left side on any teams infield better than NADO & Winns!

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:43 am

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑17 May 2025 11:34 am Arenado is a 98 OPS +. He's average. Hitting him 7th or 8th is just fine with me....You still have to have him somewhere in the lineup and he'll be just average wherever he hits. But, his fielding is part of why we are so dam.ned good defensively. We aren't putting Gorman in there for God's sake.

Leave Arenado alone. There is no trade value. If the Yankees go crazy and offer us somebody great...maybe...we trade. First, I'm not sure the Yankees have anybody who can help us this year..... Second, I'm not giving up on THIS YEAR. We ain't broke. Don't fix.

Yanks will eventually get back J. Chissom and DJ LaMethieu so they don't need or want NADO.

And like you said, they won't give us anything we'd want.

I say keep him unless some team overwhelms Mo/Bloom.

Yeah. I just chuckle when someone has an epiphany that Arenado isn't much help offensively, "time to trade". We have 2 players we kind of need to hide in the lineup right now, Walker and Arenado. Not really, you know, but expectations kinda slip when you see them at the bat. Both are solid defensively so you live with it and hope that Walker will emerge. Not sure why Nolan is hitting in top 5, but, I'm sure that Oli sees what we see and eventually it gets fixed. Again, he has to bat somewhere....With a lineup as potent as ours, NA's hitting is problematic.