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I'd keep playing him. I don't think the really hard stuff is coming for quite a while.

illiniriles wrote: ↑13 May 2025 13:51 pm I'd keep playing him. I don't think the really hard stuff is coming for quite a while.

JDW wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:07 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:02 am Llike I said in another thread he isn't doing his future or the ballclub any good dwindling away to nothing here.

Frankly if the ballclub is to contend in this division it really isn't practical to have here with little to no chance to contribute.

If the ballclub was floundering and there wasn't any real pressure to produce the just maybe it might be a different story.

Nice write. Yes this streak has everyone giddy. Everyone wants to change course after a week of good baseball.

Walker is not only feeling the pressure to just hit, but now the added pressure of a faux pennant race.

And now the fan base.

Hey, us fans are fickle.
Depressed one week, giddy the next.
Sure, put up the weather vane, I deserve it.

Agree with many of these statements. Just to add that last year most of we’re ripping on him for his defense. This year he is not only a + defender but part of an elite defensive OF. Probably the best defensive OF in all of Baseball. So there has been significant improvement. His upside and athleticism deserves a long runway to now focus on offensive improvement and hopefully the coaching can support that as well as the psychological impact of his work.

Tough call but I’m in favor of not breaking what has been a significant contributor to the team this early on and continue the reset mentality for him with a long runway. Optioning him will cause a rebalance of players in a couple positions and for what? More Burly and others playing with net negative defensively and offensively?

Just my thoughts

A few have suggested sending Walker down to a level even lower than AAA.. to Double A (AA) ball.
Will repeating that level make him improve ? He already had tremendous success there. He was the Cardinals Player of the Year both in 2021 & 2022 . Baseball America had him rated as the 4 best prospect in all the minor leagues heading into 2023 . Also factored in was he was dominating at that level at age 19 & 20 years old. (He was playing with kids mostly 2 and 3 years older than himself. )

He had a good rookie year with the Cardinals hitting .276 with OPS .767 .. 16 HR's and 51 RBI's ..started that 2023 season at age 20
Then he fell off the cliff in 2024 and into 2025 has not yet improved.

So the decision becomes .. Is the organization better working with him at the major league level with Brant Brown on a daily basis OR returning him to a minor league level where he would be facing far less than major league caliber pitching and arguably a hitting instructor not the caliber of his major league coaching ? That is the $64 question I would guess like differing opinions on CT as the correct route to go from here , those same discussions are going on within the Cards FO too.
He has been sent down extensively previously and that didn't seem to change things for the major league level when he returned. It's a perplexing situation for sure.

Looksgoodonyouthough wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:02 pm

JDW wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:07 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:02 am Llike I said in another thread he isn't doing his future or the ballclub any good dwindling away to nothing here.

Frankly if the ballclub is to contend in this division it really isn't practical to have here with little to no chance to contribute.

If the ballclub was floundering and there wasn't any real pressure to produce the just maybe it might be a different story.

Nice write. Yes this streak has everyone giddy. Everyone wants to change course after a week of good baseball.

Walker is not only feeling the pressure to just hit, but now the added pressure of a faux pennant race.

And now the fan base.

Hey, us fans are fickle.
Depressed one week, giddy the next.
Sure, put up the weather vane, I deserve it.

Agree with many of these statements. Just to add that last year most of we’re ripping on him for his defense. This year he is not only a + defender but part of an elite defensive OF. Probably the best defensive OF in all of Baseball. So there has been significant improvement. His upside and athleticism deserves a long runway to now focus on offensive improvement and hopefully the coaching can support that as well as the psychological impact of his work.

Tough call but I’m in favor of not breaking what has been a significant contributor to the team this early on and continue the reset mentality for him with a long runway. Optioning him will cause a rebalance of players in a couple positions and for what? More Burly and others playing with net negative defensively and offensively?

Just my thoughts

It's a good point you make. They can do their best to be patient like the Brewers did with Chourio. If you keep batting him 8th or even 9th, you can do your best that way to keep the spotlight off of him.

imadangman wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:11 pm

Looksgoodonyouthough wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:02 pm

JDW wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:07 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:02 am Llike I said in another thread he isn't doing his future or the ballclub any good dwindling away to nothing here.

Frankly if the ballclub is to contend in this division it really isn't practical to have here with little to no chance to contribute.

If the ballclub was floundering and there wasn't any real pressure to produce the just maybe it might be a different story.

Nice write. Yes this streak has everyone giddy. Everyone wants to change course after a week of good baseball.

Walker is not only feeling the pressure to just hit, but now the added pressure of a faux pennant race.

And now the fan base.

Hey, us fans are fickle.
Depressed one week, giddy the next.
Sure, put up the weather vane, I deserve it.

Agree with many of these statements. Just to add that last year most of we’re ripping on him for his defense. This year he is not only a + defender but part of an elite defensive OF. Probably the best defensive OF in all of Baseball. So there has been significant improvement. His upside and athleticism deserves a long runway to now focus on offensive improvement and hopefully the coaching can support that as well as the psychological impact of his work.

Tough call but I’m in favor of not breaking what has been a significant contributor to the team this early on and continue the reset mentality for him with a long runway. Optioning him will cause a rebalance of players in a couple positions and for what? More Burly and others playing with net negative defensively and offensively?

Just my thoughts

It's a good point you make. They can do their best to be patient like the Brewers did with Chourio. If you keep batting him 8th or even 9th, you can do your best that way to keep the spotlight off of him.

+1

imadangman wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:11 pm

Looksgoodonyouthough wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:02 pm

JDW wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:07 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:02 am Llike I said in another thread he isn't doing his future or the ballclub any good dwindling away to nothing here.

Frankly if the ballclub is to contend in this division it really isn't practical to have here with little to no chance to contribute.

If the ballclub was floundering and there wasn't any real pressure to produce the just maybe it might be a different story.

Nice write. Yes this streak has everyone giddy. Everyone wants to change course after a week of good baseball.

Walker is not only feeling the pressure to just hit, but now the added pressure of a faux pennant race.

And now the fan base.

Hey, us fans are fickle.
Depressed one week, giddy the next.
Sure, put up the weather vane, I deserve it.

Agree with many of these statements. Just to add that last year most of we’re ripping on him for his defense. This year he is not only a + defender but part of an elite defensive OF. Probably the best defensive OF in all of Baseball. So there has been significant improvement. His upside and athleticism deserves a long runway to now focus on offensive improvement and hopefully the coaching can support that as well as the psychological impact of his work.

Tough call but I’m in favor of not breaking what has been a significant contributor to the team this early on and continue the reset mentality for him with a long runway. Optioning him will cause a rebalance of players in a couple positions and for what? More Burly and others playing with net negative defensively and offensively?

Just my thoughts

It's a good point you make. They can do their best to be patient like the Brewers did with Chourio. If you keep batting him 8th or even 9th, you can do your best that way to keep the spotlight off of him.

Good analogy with Chourio from Brewers. Remembered how he struggled the first few months with Brewers but Manager Pat Murphy kept giving him playing time.
In regards to batting him low and keeping the spotlight off him, when a kid is 6-6 250 standing in the batters box , he is a tough guy to 'hide' in your lineup. The massive size alone draws the spotlight to him .

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:16 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:11 pm

Looksgoodonyouthough wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:02 pm

JDW wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:07 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:02 am Llike I said in another thread he isn't doing his future or the ballclub any good dwindling away to nothing here.

Frankly if the ballclub is to contend in this division it really isn't practical to have here with little to no chance to contribute.

If the ballclub was floundering and there wasn't any real pressure to produce the just maybe it might be a different story.

Nice write. Yes this streak has everyone giddy. Everyone wants to change course after a week of good baseball.

Walker is not only feeling the pressure to just hit, but now the added pressure of a faux pennant race.

And now the fan base.

Hey, us fans are fickle.
Depressed one week, giddy the next.
Sure, put up the weather vane, I deserve it.

Agree with many of these statements. Just to add that last year most of we’re ripping on him for his defense. This year he is not only a + defender but part of an elite defensive OF. Probably the best defensive OF in all of Baseball. So there has been significant improvement. His upside and athleticism deserves a long runway to now focus on offensive improvement and hopefully the coaching can support that as well as the psychological impact of his work.

Tough call but I’m in favor of not breaking what has been a significant contributor to the team this early on and continue the reset mentality for him with a long runway. Optioning him will cause a rebalance of players in a couple positions and for what? More Burly and others playing with net negative defensively and offensively?

Just my thoughts

It's a good point you make. They can do their best to be patient like the Brewers did with Chourio. If you keep batting him 8th or even 9th, you can do your best that way to keep the spotlight off of him.

Good analogy with Chourio from Brewers. Remembered how he struggled the first few months with Brewers but Manager Pat Murphy kept giving him playing time.
In regards to batting him low and keeping the spotlight off him, when a kid is 6-6 250 standing in the batters box , he is a tough guy to 'hide' in your lineup. The massive size alone draws the spotlight to him .

It's also hard to hide a sub-.500 ops

Looksgoodonyouthough wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:13 pm

imadangman wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:11 pm

Looksgoodonyouthough wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:02 pm

JDW wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:07 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:02 am Llike I said in another thread he isn't doing his future or the ballclub any good dwindling away to nothing here.

Frankly if the ballclub is to contend in this division it really isn't practical to have here with little to no chance to contribute.

If the ballclub was floundering and there wasn't any real pressure to produce the just maybe it might be a different story.

Nice write. Yes this streak has everyone giddy. Everyone wants to change course after a week of good baseball.

Walker is not only feeling the pressure to just hit, but now the added pressure of a faux pennant race.

And now the fan base.

Hey, us fans are fickle.
Depressed one week, giddy the next.
Sure, put up the weather vane, I deserve it.

Agree with many of these statements. Just to add that last year most of we’re ripping on him for his defense. This year he is not only a + defender but part of an elite defensive OF. Probably the best defensive OF in all of Baseball. So there has been significant improvement. His upside and athleticism deserves a long runway to now focus on offensive improvement and hopefully the coaching can support that as well as the psychological impact of his work.

Tough call but I’m in favor of not breaking what has been a significant contributor to the team this early on and continue the reset mentality for him with a long runway. Optioning him will cause a rebalance of players in a couple positions and for what? More Burly and others playing with net negative defensively and offensively?

Just my thoughts

It's a good point you make. They can do their best to be patient like the Brewers did with Chourio. If you keep batting him 8th or even 9th, you can do your best that way to keep the spotlight off of him.

+1

It wouldn't hurt to give Barrero some split time in RF too.

Swuhgen wrote: ↑13 May 2025 09:04 am

woofy25 wrote: ↑13 May 2025 08:25 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 08:16 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑13 May 2025 08:06 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑13 May 2025 07:57 am D, C (not trade) if it is necessary for him, not because I have run out of patience. I don't think the organization can send him down in May for a third straight year and expect a different result. They said they were going to do something different and that is correct, something different is needed. You don't always get the answers you want, but one of the benefits you can get from seeing something through is that you get your questions answered and it allows you to move forward (one way or another). We've come this far, answer the questions.

Except that .263 avg with a .753 OPS are the best numbers he's ever posted at AAA. I'd send him down and make him hit his way back into MLB, meaning close to a .300 avg with an OPS near or above .900 for at least 4-8 weeks straight, just like the majority of AAA players have to hit to make the big league squad.

This guy has been coddled endlessly for the last 3 years and it's clearly not having the desired effect. At some point, every man realizes if he's going to succeed in his field, you either find your ability to excel in that field or you don't. You want to play at MLB, EARN it!

He doesn't turn 23 until next month so he's still got years to figure it out down there. You'd think the thought of languishing in AAA for the next few years would light a fire under his *ss to start producing asap.

EDIT- I'd also give him a choice or ultimatum or whatever you want to call before sending him down. I'd tell him straight up, you've got 2 weeks to start showing you're on the right track, lay it out in black and white, constant hard contact, very few K's, or whatever they'd deem necessary. Just end the (Ef'En) coddling. It's not working!

Reference was made to AAA .263 numbers but many forget Walker has done better than that in the majors.
In 2023 as a rookie, Walker hit .276 . He was 20 years old and hit higher BA than both Goldy and Nado. He had 17 HRs too.
Then 2024 disaster thru now.
So it’s not like he has never batted well with big club.

Exactly right. The cardinals cannot send him down in May three years in a row. He’s had success at the mlb level. 2025 is the year of runway, supposedly. Things are different. Yet, those who want to send him to AAA are going down the same road which hasn’t worked. Why? I know guys on here are excited about the winning streak. That cannot change the point of the season. The cardinals cannot get sidetracked. They need to know whether or not he’s locked in as the 2026 RFer and beyond but won’t get the answer from Memphis.

I was all about keeping him on the roster the entire season.
But you can't keep a guy who is literally offering nothing but some above average defense.
He has to hit better than this to justify being on the roster.

He does in 2026. This is what the season of runway is for. To resist the temptation to send guys down. That move hasn’t worked. Why try the same thing a third time?

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑13 May 2025 13:33 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑13 May 2025 09:30 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 04:29 am First, kudos to Jordan Walker for making a speedy running grab Monday night.

Now select from below the 'patience level' for Jordan Walker . Choose the one that best describes your feelings on him .

A. My patience has run out. He should be sent to Memphis immediately.
B. I would play him thru the end of May. If no turnaround by then, then bye bye
C. Play him thru end of July. If he hasn't looked good by then, consider trading him (if possible) or demoting him.
D. Stick with Walker for the full season. I am still optimistic about his future.

Thanks for your feedback on Jordan Walker.
Look forward to the results .

A without question... although I'd send him lower than Memphis.

1-27 in May with a 44% strikeout rate
.484 OPS vs RHP

He's unplayable and the majors are eating him alive. He needs to go away to do work, get in a lab, have some success at a lower level, and work his way back up.

You send him to AA and he’ll just get fat on dead red fastballs. IMO he needs to make adjustments at the major league level.

I’d send him wherever they have their best hitting instructor. He’s dying in the majors.

imadangman wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:11 pm

Looksgoodonyouthough wrote: ↑13 May 2025 14:02 pm

JDW wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:26 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:07 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑13 May 2025 11:02 am Llike I said in another thread he isn't doing his future or the ballclub any good dwindling away to nothing here.

Frankly if the ballclub is to contend in this division it really isn't practical to have here with little to no chance to contribute.

If the ballclub was floundering and there wasn't any real pressure to produce the just maybe it might be a different story.

Nice write. Yes this streak has everyone giddy. Everyone wants to change course after a week of good baseball.

Walker is not only feeling the pressure to just hit, but now the added pressure of a faux pennant race.

And now the fan base.

Hey, us fans are fickle.
Depressed one week, giddy the next.
Sure, put up the weather vane, I deserve it.

Agree with many of these statements. Just to add that last year most of we’re ripping on him for his defense. This year he is not only a + defender but part of an elite defensive OF. Probably the best defensive OF in all of Baseball. So there has been significant improvement. His upside and athleticism deserves a long runway to now focus on offensive improvement and hopefully the coaching can support that as well as the psychological impact of his work.

Tough call but I’m in favor of not breaking what has been a significant contributor to the team this early on and continue the reset mentality for him with a long runway. Optioning him will cause a rebalance of players in a couple positions and for what? More Burly and others playing with net negative defensively and offensively?

Just my thoughts

It's a good point you make. They can do their best to be patient like the Brewers did with Chourio. If you keep batting him 8th or even 9th, you can do your best that way to keep the spotlight off of him.

The Brewers did not wait this long for Chourio; after his first 300 PA, he was already very good. Also, Chourio's defense was much better than Walker's defense so he really wasn't hurting the team that badly when his bat was struggling.

Walker has already struggled for 2.5 times longer than Chourio did.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑13 May 2025 15:45 pm

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑13 May 2025 13:33 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑13 May 2025 09:30 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 04:29 am First, kudos to Jordan Walker for making a speedy running grab Monday night.

Now select from below the 'patience level' for Jordan Walker . Choose the one that best describes your feelings on him .

A. My patience has run out. He should be sent to Memphis immediately.
B. I would play him thru the end of May. If no turnaround by then, then bye bye
C. Play him thru end of July. If he hasn't looked good by then, consider trading him (if possible) or demoting him.
D. Stick with Walker for the full season. I am still optimistic about his future.

Thanks for your feedback on Jordan Walker.
Look forward to the results .

A without question... although I'd send him lower than Memphis.

1-27 in May with a 44% strikeout rate
.484 OPS vs RHP

He's unplayable and the majors are eating him alive. He needs to go away to do work, get in a lab, have some success at a lower level, and work his way back up.

You send him to AA and he’ll just get fat on dead red fastballs. IMO he needs to make adjustments at the major league level.

I’d send him wherever they have their best hitting instructor. He’s dying in the majors.

Hire whoever is instructing James Wood, about the same age, size and build. I know he is a lefty but he is having a great rookie start to the season. 11 bombs already. Also remember a guy named Chris Carter, I was thinking that would be Walker's floor, now may be his ceiling. Carter had a few seasons of good power, but very low BA/OBP

Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑13 May 2025 23:09 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑13 May 2025 15:45 pm

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑13 May 2025 13:33 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑13 May 2025 09:30 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 04:29 am First, kudos to Jordan Walker for making a speedy running grab Monday night.

Now select from below the 'patience level' for Jordan Walker . Choose the one that best describes your feelings on him .

A. My patience has run out. He should be sent to Memphis immediately.
B. I would play him thru the end of May. If no turnaround by then, then bye bye
C. Play him thru end of July. If he hasn't looked good by then, consider trading him (if possible) or demoting him.
D. Stick with Walker for the full season. I am still optimistic about his future.

Thanks for your feedback on Jordan Walker.
Look forward to the results .

A without question... although I'd send him lower than Memphis.

1-27 in May with a 44% strikeout rate
.484 OPS vs RHP

He's unplayable and the majors are eating him alive. He needs to go away to do work, get in a lab, have some success at a lower level, and work his way back up.

You send him to AA and he’ll just get fat on dead red fastballs. IMO he needs to make adjustments at the major league level.

I’d send him wherever they have their best hitting instructor. He’s dying in the majors.

Hire whoever is instructing James Wood, about the same age, size and build. I know he is a lefty but he is having a great rookie start to the season. 11 bombs already. Also remember a guy named Chris Carter, I was thinking that would be Walker's floor, now may be his ceiling. Carter had a few seasons of good power, but very low BA/OBP

James Wood hit .353 with a 177 wRC+ in AAA with 17% BB / 18% K rates.

Walker did nothing close to that. There was always near zero reason to expect sustained success in the majors when he had clear red flags and hadn’t hit well in AAA.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑13 May 2025 23:17 pm

Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑13 May 2025 23:09 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑13 May 2025 15:45 pm

Quincy Varnish wrote: ↑13 May 2025 13:33 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑13 May 2025 09:30 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑13 May 2025 04:29 am First, kudos to Jordan Walker for making a speedy running grab Monday night.

Now select from below the 'patience level' for Jordan Walker . Choose the one that best describes your feelings on him .

A. My patience has run out. He should be sent to Memphis immediately.
B. I would play him thru the end of May. If no turnaround by then, then bye bye
C. Play him thru end of July. If he hasn't looked good by then, consider trading him (if possible) or demoting him.
D. Stick with Walker for the full season. I am still optimistic about his future.

Thanks for your feedback on Jordan Walker.
Look forward to the results .

A without question... although I'd send him lower than Memphis.

1-27 in May with a 44% strikeout rate
.484 OPS vs RHP

He's unplayable and the majors are eating him alive. He needs to go away to do work, get in a lab, have some success at a lower level, and work his way back up.

You send him to AA and he’ll just get fat on dead red fastballs. IMO he needs to make adjustments at the major league level.

I’d send him wherever they have their best hitting instructor. He’s dying in the majors.

Hire whoever is instructing James Wood, about the same age, size and build. I know he is a lefty but he is having a great rookie start to the season. 11 bombs already. Also remember a guy named Chris Carter, I was thinking that would be Walker's floor, now may be his ceiling. Carter had a few seasons of good power, but very low BA/OBP

James Wood hit .353 with a 177 wRC+ in AAA with 17% BB / 18% K rates.

Walker did nothing close to that. There was always near zero reason to expect sustained success in the majors when he had clear red flags and hadn’t hit well in AAA.

He never had a PA in AAA until he had reached the MLB and already been messed with. So we have no idea how he would have done if he had gone the Wood path like the Nats did.

Can I change C to the end of June? I think 5 more weeks is sufficient runway for Walker to turn it around. If not, then send him to Memphis for the rest of the year. Bring Sagesse back up to play 3B and Gorman can get some more reps there as well with Donovan in LF. Everyone should look at Byron Buxton and his numbers and how long it took him to reach his potential as a hitter. There is hope for Walker, but it might take 2-3 more years.