Re: The future of baseball may rest on the "Alec Burlesons"
Posted: 25 Feb 2026 18:08 pm
STLtoday.com Forums
https://interact.stltoday.com/forums/
https://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1520674
Agree about Soto’s defense, but last year he led the NL in SBs and ranked 90th percentile in baserunning. He doesn’t run well, but he’s savvy on the bases.Hoosier59 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 10:09 amWhenever players like Tucker, and Soto receive the ridiculous contracts they have, players aspire to do the same. Both players have flaws in their games. I think they see the deals Ohtani and Judge get and feel like, oh those are elite guys and deserve what they get, but when Soto, Tucker, and players like them get paid stupid money, they can easier compare themselves to them. Soto can hit and get on base, but that’s it. Hes terrible defensively, and not a good base runner. Tucker is a very good player, but not great at any one thing.bccardsfan wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 09:56 am The only way to pay for bringing younger players' salaries into the range Matt suggests is to either decrease the profit by ownership or lower the salaries of the extremely well paid top tier of players. I sincerely doubt either group will give up much. The younger players see a $35M per season multi-year contract given out to a few vets on each team and aspire to that, not seeing that they would be better off making $5-9M really early in their careers, and have salaries at the top reduced. Something has to give, but I doubt owners and high paid vets (and young superstars) are going to want to give up much.....
What players need to realize is that there are only a few owners willing to spend outrageously, and once their rosters are full, or they have the team assembled like they want, the money dries up!
Owners need to police their own, somehow, and not let a few ruin the game! More penalties need to be applied to curb their excessive spending, and if that doesn’t work add on even more, until they do.
I don't disagree with you in principle.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
What if a partial reason Burleson has a roster position is that he is a bargain. He replaced a player that wasmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about a new paradigm system that completely blows everything out of the water.renostl wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 00:15 amWhat if a partial reason Burleson has a roster position is that he is a bargain. He replaced a player that wasmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
less of a bargain it worked extremely well for AB. He's been questionable at making the roster the 2 prior seasons.
To ramp up the salary of an accumulative 0.5 WAR player prior to 2025 may also create less opportunity to establish himself. The 2025 season was rewarded in not just 3.3M but in more opportunities like a
starters position.
I support the midrange player as much as anyone. They typically are the ones to be squeezed. There
are FA's that go unsigned now. Edman getting that contract was unique. Donovan's value is also partially due
to his cost. He may not be as lucky as Edman in his FA search.
If teams replace AS level players with the next great prospect what happen win a 1-2 WAR player
cost too much. I see these 0.5-2 WAR players out of the game at 30 or trying to grab a Spring training
invite in this current system which definitely wouldn't increase their career earnings.
Seems similar to our tax code desires to over tax the rich to support the poor. Over tax/restrict Soto to pay for 50 underprivileged/under taxed.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 05:01 amJust to be clear, I'm not talking about a new paradigm system that completely blows everything out of the water.renostl wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 00:15 amWhat if a partial reason Burleson has a roster position is that he is a bargain. He replaced a player that wasmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
less of a bargain it worked extremely well for AB. He's been questionable at making the roster the 2 prior seasons.
To ramp up the salary of an accumulative 0.5 WAR player prior to 2025 may also create less opportunity to establish himself. The 2025 season was rewarded in not just 3.3M but in more opportunities like a
starters position.
I support the midrange player as much as anyone. They typically are the ones to be squeezed. There
are FA's that go unsigned now. Edman getting that contract was unique. Donovan's value is also partially due
to his cost. He may not be as lucky as Edman in his FA search.
If teams replace AS level players with the next great prospect what happen win a 1-2 WAR player
cost too much. I see these 0.5-2 WAR players out of the game at 30 or trying to grab a Spring training
invite in this current system which definitely wouldn't increase their career earnings.
For example, in the case of Burleson, I noted that you could say he's made $2+ million but probably should have earned closer to $12+ million over 2022-2025.
Without going all the way into the details of the math, I'm looking a new system - between a higher ML min. and starting to make a new take on ARB adjustments after 1 yr. of service time - that might have paid Burleson closer to $5 million over 2022-2025. And then for 2026, I'd probably having him making about $5 million, based on his 2025 performance, vs. $3.3 million.
So, by the end of 2026, I'd have Burleson having made like $10 million instead of $5.5 million and he'd be that much less "in arrears" going into 2027.
That may not look like a huge difference in the context of a $5.28 billion industry in player salaries, but I think it would be very meaningful difference on level of individual players, in particular for guys who are "average" to "marginal" players who may have short careers and who moreso need to cash in when they can. If Burleson suffered a career ending injury this season, walking away from MLB having justifiably made $10 million instead of $5.5 million would make a huge difference in him and his family being "set for life".
In my conceptualization, even if it means Juan Soto gets $550 million instead of $750 million so that other $200 million can go to 40-50 "Alec Burlesons," I think that would be good for baseball.
The simple truth is that, as good as he was last year, even Juan Soto was vastly overpaid - if you go by actual production.sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 05:14 amSeems similar to our tax code desires to over tax the rich to support the poor. Over tax/restrict Soto to pay for 50 underprivileged/under taxed.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 05:01 amJust to be clear, I'm not talking about a new paradigm system that completely blows everything out of the water.renostl wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 00:15 amWhat if a partial reason Burleson has a roster position is that he is a bargain. He replaced a player that wasmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
less of a bargain it worked extremely well for AB. He's been questionable at making the roster the 2 prior seasons.
To ramp up the salary of an accumulative 0.5 WAR player prior to 2025 may also create less opportunity to establish himself. The 2025 season was rewarded in not just 3.3M but in more opportunities like a
starters position.
I support the midrange player as much as anyone. They typically are the ones to be squeezed. There
are FA's that go unsigned now. Edman getting that contract was unique. Donovan's value is also partially due
to his cost. He may not be as lucky as Edman in his FA search.
If teams replace AS level players with the next great prospect what happen win a 1-2 WAR player
cost too much. I see these 0.5-2 WAR players out of the game at 30 or trying to grab a Spring training
invite in this current system which definitely wouldn't increase their career earnings.
For example, in the case of Burleson, I noted that you could say he's made $2+ million but probably should have earned closer to $12+ million over 2022-2025.
Without going all the way into the details of the math, I'm looking a new system - between a higher ML min. and starting to make a new take on ARB adjustments after 1 yr. of service time - that might have paid Burleson closer to $5 million over 2022-2025. And then for 2026, I'd probably having him making about $5 million, based on his 2025 performance, vs. $3.3 million.
So, by the end of 2026, I'd have Burleson having made like $10 million instead of $5.5 million and he'd be that much less "in arrears" going into 2027.
That may not look like a huge difference in the context of a $5.28 billion industry in player salaries, but I think it would be very meaningful difference on level of individual players, in particular for guys who are "average" to "marginal" players who may have short careers and who moreso need to cash in when they can. If Burleson suffered a career ending injury this season, walking away from MLB having justifiably made $10 million instead of $5.5 million would make a huge difference in him and his family being "set for life".
In my conceptualization, even if it means Juan Soto gets $550 million instead of $750 million so that other $200 million can go to 40-50 "Alec Burlesons," I think that would be good for baseball.
Now. The trick. How to convince 20 studs to take much less, 20 agencies to negotiate the transactions, two opposing factions, and the average fan, to say ok.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 06:08 amThe simple truth is that, as good as he was last year, even Juan Soto was vastly overpaid - if you go by actual production.sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 05:14 amSeems similar to our tax code desires to over tax the rich to support the poor. Over tax/restrict Soto to pay for 50 underprivileged/under taxed.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 05:01 amJust to be clear, I'm not talking about a new paradigm system that completely blows everything out of the water.renostl wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 00:15 amWhat if a partial reason Burleson has a roster position is that he is a bargain. He replaced a player that wasmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
less of a bargain it worked extremely well for AB. He's been questionable at making the roster the 2 prior seasons.
To ramp up the salary of an accumulative 0.5 WAR player prior to 2025 may also create less opportunity to establish himself. The 2025 season was rewarded in not just 3.3M but in more opportunities like a
starters position.
I support the midrange player as much as anyone. They typically are the ones to be squeezed. There
are FA's that go unsigned now. Edman getting that contract was unique. Donovan's value is also partially due
to his cost. He may not be as lucky as Edman in his FA search.
If teams replace AS level players with the next great prospect what happen win a 1-2 WAR player
cost too much. I see these 0.5-2 WAR players out of the game at 30 or trying to grab a Spring training
invite in this current system which definitely wouldn't increase their career earnings.
For example, in the case of Burleson, I noted that you could say he's made $2+ million but probably should have earned closer to $12+ million over 2022-2025.
Without going all the way into the details of the math, I'm looking a new system - between a higher ML min. and starting to make a new take on ARB adjustments after 1 yr. of service time - that might have paid Burleson closer to $5 million over 2022-2025. And then for 2026, I'd probably having him making about $5 million, based on his 2025 performance, vs. $3.3 million.
So, by the end of 2026, I'd have Burleson having made like $10 million instead of $5.5 million and he'd be that much less "in arrears" going into 2027.
That may not look like a huge difference in the context of a $5.28 billion industry in player salaries, but I think it would be very meaningful difference on level of individual players, in particular for guys who are "average" to "marginal" players who may have short careers and who moreso need to cash in when they can. If Burleson suffered a career ending injury this season, walking away from MLB having justifiably made $10 million instead of $5.5 million would make a huge difference in him and his family being "set for life".
In my conceptualization, even if it means Juan Soto gets $550 million instead of $750 million so that other $200 million can go to 40-50 "Alec Burlesons," I think that would be good for baseball.
Soto got $62 million in 2025, which was ~1/85th of ALL the money ($5.28 billion) paid out in player salaries. However, he produced 5.8 fWAR, which was only about 1/170th of the 1000 fWAR in production across MLB last year. So, in a real sense, he was probably paid about twice as much (maybe actually a bit more than that) than he perhaps should have been.
But that is exactly what the current system is set up to do - underpay the Alec Burlesons, Masyn Winns, Ivan Herreras, etc. and overpay in particular the stars/superstars who cash in after reaching FA.
But, because there isn't sufficient revenue sharing between teams and there isn't a salary floor, the system unfortunately has to be set up that way in order to allow the smallest market teams access to really cheap, young players.
All of these "wrongs" of the current system feed off each other, but don't really make a "right" in the end, IMO.
If every one of the 800+ players in the MLBPA gets exactly one vote, you don't have to convince the 20, 30, 50 top players of anything. As a percentage of the overall voting population, they are irrelevant. They just have to live with whatever happens - and they are still going to end up making hundreds of millions of dollars, just less hundreds of millions.sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 06:20 am Now. The trick. How to convince 20 studs to take much less, 20 agencies to negotiate the transactions, two opposing factions, and the average fan, to say ok.
Whats the real outcome gonna look like.
Ok. I get it. it’s the 600 or so players, in the nego range of effects, who you need a vote from. How do you convince them, with much noise- agents, peers- former players- etc, in their ear.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 06:30 amIf every one of the 800+ players in the MLBPA gets exactly one vote, you don't have to convince the 20, 30, 50 top players of anything. As a percentage of the overall voting population, they are irrelevant. They just have to live with whatever happens - and they are still going to end up making hundreds of millions of dollars, just less hundreds of millions.sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 06:20 am Now. The trick. How to convince 20 studs to take much less, 20 agencies to negotiate the transactions, two opposing factions, and the average fan, to say ok.
Whats the real outcome gonna look like.
You have to convince the hundreds of "marginal", "average", journeyman, etc. - however you want to characterize them - players that they will be demonstrably better off.
This negotiation shouldn't be players vs. owners, it really should be, if done rationally and logically, the many small/mid market owners + marginal/average/etc. players vs. the few big market owners + star/superstar players and their agents. And the "many" should win out over the "few."
IMO - the owners need to come to the table, right from the start, with a suite of changes (higher ML minimum, fewer years to ARB/a different implementation of ARB, fewer years to FA, etc.) which are an undeniable "win" for the vast majority of players. They need to not be subtle or reserved about wooing the 51+ percent of players they need to agree to a new CBA, and presumably one that gives the owners the salary cap/floor that they want. The owners need to come quickly with a new paradigm which is on the side of the young "average"/"journeyman" etc. player to win the PR battle.sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 06:42 amOk. I get it. it’s the 600 or so players, in the nego range of effects, who you need a vote from. How do you convince them, with much noise- agents, peers- former players- etc, in their ear.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 06:30 amIf every one of the 800+ players in the MLBPA gets exactly one vote, you don't have to convince the 20, 30, 50 top players of anything. As a percentage of the overall voting population, they are irrelevant. They just have to live with whatever happens - and they are still going to end up making hundreds of millions of dollars, just less hundreds of millions.sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 06:20 am Now. The trick. How to convince 20 studs to take much less, 20 agencies to negotiate the transactions, two opposing factions, and the average fan, to say ok.
Whats the real outcome gonna look like.
You have to convince the hundreds of "marginal", "average", journeyman, etc. - however you want to characterize them - players that they will be demonstrably better off.
This negotiation shouldn't be players vs. owners, it really should be, if done rationally and logically, the many small/mid market owners + marginal/average/etc. players vs. the few big market owners + star/superstar players and their agents. And the "many" should win out over the "few."
"In my conceptualization, even if it means Juan Soto gets $550 million instead of $750 million so that other $200 million can go to 40-50 'Alec Burlesons', I think that would be good for baseball."mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 05:01 amJust to be clear, I'm not talking about a new paradigm system that completely blows everything out of the water.renostl wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 00:15 amWhat if a partial reason Burleson has a roster position is that he is a bargain. He replaced a player that wasmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
less of a bargain it worked extremely well for AB. He's been questionable at making the roster the 2 prior seasons.
To ramp up the salary of an accumulative 0.5 WAR player prior to 2025 may also create less opportunity to establish himself. The 2025 season was rewarded in not just 3.3M but in more opportunities like a
starters position.
I support the midrange player as much as anyone. They typically are the ones to be squeezed. There
are FA's that go unsigned now. Edman getting that contract was unique. Donovan's value is also partially due
to his cost. He may not be as lucky as Edman in his FA search.
If teams replace AS level players with the next great prospect what happen win a 1-2 WAR player
cost too much. I see these 0.5-2 WAR players out of the game at 30 or trying to grab a Spring training
invite in this current system which definitely wouldn't increase their career earnings.
For example, in the case of Burleson, I noted that you could say he's made $2+ million but probably should have earned closer to $12+ million over 2022-2025.
Without going all the way into the details of the math, I'm looking a new system - between a higher ML min. and starting to make a new take on ARB adjustments after 1 yr. of service time - that might have paid Burleson closer to $5 million over 2022-2025. And then for 2026, I'd probably having him making about $5 million, based on his 2025 performance, vs. $3.3 million.
So, by the end of 2026, I'd have Burleson having made like $10 million instead of $5.5 million and he'd be that much less "in arrears" going into 2027.
That may not look like a huge difference in the context of a $5.28 billion industry in player salaries, but I think it would be very meaningful difference on level of individual players, in particular for guys who are "average" to "marginal" players who may have short careers and who moreso need to cash in when they can. If Burleson suffered a career ending injury this season, walking away from MLB having justifiably made $10 million instead of $5.5 million would make a huge difference in him and his family being "set for life".
In my conceptualization, even if it means Juan Soto gets $550 million instead of $750 million so that other $200 million can go to 40-50 "Alec Burlesons," I think that would be good for baseball.
To date, you are correct that the Cardinals have not that . In order to do it, you must have a young player who you feel has a ton of upside to warrant the risk . The Cardinals have not had the player to gambe on in the past several years but they may have one right now.. JJ Wetherhold may be the one guy Bloom would roll the dice on .. just like the Brewers did with Chourio . To make that bold move, you want not only the physical baseball upside talent but also the mental , emotional makeup to turn out positive for you . Don't know if Bloom is a gambler to do an extension like that .Melville wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 21:19 pmI don't disagree with you in principle.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
But there is one fatal flaw.
The players making 25M, 30M, 45M a year are never going to surrender a penny in order to free up payroll for owners to "come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers".
The union would gladly agree to a structure that paid young guys more - provided that ONLY the owners and fans foot the entire bill.
I think we both know that is true.
And, in reality, some smart owners and POBO's are already doing what you are asking.
Extending players early on in their careers is not uncommon.
But, to date, the Cardinals just won't do it.
The only way your conceptualization works is if the union and management sets salaries for all players.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 05:01 amJust to be clear, I'm not talking about a new paradigm system that completely blows everything out of the water.renostl wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 00:15 amWhat if a partial reason Burleson has a roster position is that he is a bargain. He replaced a player that wasmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
less of a bargain it worked extremely well for AB. He's been questionable at making the roster the 2 prior seasons.
To ramp up the salary of an accumulative 0.5 WAR player prior to 2025 may also create less opportunity to establish himself. The 2025 season was rewarded in not just 3.3M but in more opportunities like a
starters position.
I support the midrange player as much as anyone. They typically are the ones to be squeezed. There
are FA's that go unsigned now. Edman getting that contract was unique. Donovan's value is also partially due
to his cost. He may not be as lucky as Edman in his FA search.
If teams replace AS level players with the next great prospect what happen win a 1-2 WAR player
cost too much. I see these 0.5-2 WAR players out of the game at 30 or trying to grab a Spring training
invite in this current system which definitely wouldn't increase their career earnings.
For example, in the case of Burleson, I noted that you could say he's made $2+ million but probably should have earned closer to $12+ million over 2022-2025.
Without going all the way into the details of the math, I'm looking a new system - between a higher ML min. and starting to make a new take on ARB adjustments after 1 yr. of service time - that might have paid Burleson closer to $5 million over 2022-2025. And then for 2026, I'd probably having him making about $5 million, based on his 2025 performance, vs. $3.3 million.
So, by the end of 2026, I'd have Burleson having made like $10 million instead of $5.5 million and he'd be that much less "in arrears" going into 2027.
That may not look like a huge difference in the context of a $5.28 billion industry in player salaries, but I think it would be very meaningful difference on level of individual players, in particular for guys who are "average" to "marginal" players who may have short careers and who moreso need to cash in when they can. If Burleson suffered a career ending injury this season, walking away from MLB having justifiably made $10 million instead of $5.5 million would make a huge difference in him and his family being "set for life".
In my conceptualization, even if it means Juan Soto gets $550 million instead of $750 million so that other $200 million can go to 40-50 "Alec Burlesons," I think that would be good for baseball.
For who - Soto?Bomber1 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 11:17 amThe only way your conceptualization works is if the union and management sets salaries for all players.mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 05:01 amJust to be clear, I'm not talking about a new paradigm system that completely blows everything out of the water.renostl wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 00:15 amWhat if a partial reason Burleson has a roster position is that he is a bargain. He replaced a player that wasmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
less of a bargain it worked extremely well for AB. He's been questionable at making the roster the 2 prior seasons.
To ramp up the salary of an accumulative 0.5 WAR player prior to 2025 may also create less opportunity to establish himself. The 2025 season was rewarded in not just 3.3M but in more opportunities like a
starters position.
I support the midrange player as much as anyone. They typically are the ones to be squeezed. There
are FA's that go unsigned now. Edman getting that contract was unique. Donovan's value is also partially due
to his cost. He may not be as lucky as Edman in his FA search.
If teams replace AS level players with the next great prospect what happen win a 1-2 WAR player
cost too much. I see these 0.5-2 WAR players out of the game at 30 or trying to grab a Spring training
invite in this current system which definitely wouldn't increase their career earnings.
For example, in the case of Burleson, I noted that you could say he's made $2+ million but probably should have earned closer to $12+ million over 2022-2025.
Without going all the way into the details of the math, I'm looking a new system - between a higher ML min. and starting to make a new take on ARB adjustments after 1 yr. of service time - that might have paid Burleson closer to $5 million over 2022-2025. And then for 2026, I'd probably having him making about $5 million, based on his 2025 performance, vs. $3.3 million.
So, by the end of 2026, I'd have Burleson having made like $10 million instead of $5.5 million and he'd be that much less "in arrears" going into 2027.
That may not look like a huge difference in the context of a $5.28 billion industry in player salaries, but I think it would be very meaningful difference on level of individual players, in particular for guys who are "average" to "marginal" players who may have short careers and who moreso need to cash in when they can. If Burleson suffered a career ending injury this season, walking away from MLB having justifiably made $10 million instead of $5.5 million would make a huge difference in him and his family being "set for life".
In my conceptualization, even if it means Juan Soto gets $550 million instead of $750 million so that other $200 million can go to 40-50 "Alec Burlesons," I think that would be good for baseball.
No more individually-negotiated contracts.
Hard to see the MlBPA going for this.
The attempted point was not about blowing up the system. It was about the counter points to be made whenmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 05:01 amJust to be clear, I'm not talking about a new paradigm system that completely blows everything out of the water.renostl wrote: ↑26 Feb 2026 00:15 amWhat if a partial reason Burleson has a roster position is that he is a bargain. He replaced a player that wasmattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 08:44 am It's easy to demonstrate that, if the economic system of baseball were "just" based on actual production, Alec Burleson should have probably already make $12+ million (a prorated ML minimum for 2022, 2023; about $3.5 million for 2024; and about $9 million for 2025) for his ML career. Under the existing system he's actually made just over $2 million ($3 million of you count his original $700K signing bonus when drafted). So his account might be considered about $10 million "in arrears" right now.
And that "in arrears" isn't related to "the owners should just pay more money to the players." It's based on that, for example, $5.28 billion went to pay player salaries in 2025, Burleson (2.1 fWAR) produced about 1/500th of the total "value" in MLB in 2025, so $5.28 billion/500 = ~$10 million (a more detailed calc gets to ~$9 million). So, even given just the size of the "pie" as it is, Burleson has been far short of getting his slice of the "pie".
He will make $3.3 million for 2026, but he if has another season consistent with 2025, he'll actually fall about another $6 million "in arrears."
In short, under the current system - even if Burleson remains healthy and productive as he was in 2025 - he'll never make up for what he already is "in arrears" in ARB-1, ARB-2, or ARB-3. Under the current system, Burleson's only hope of making up what he will be "in arrears" by the time he's through his first six years is to:
(1) remain consistently healthy
(2) remain consistently productive and
(3) then convince some team to give him a contract in FA which, in addition to paying him for what he does going forward, makes up for what he is "in arrears" from his first six seasons.
This systematic situation affects the vast majority of players as they work through their ML career, and for a sizeable fraction of them likely never gets balanced out in the long run if they never get that FA contract that balances the books.
This is where the owners need to come to the table with a proposal that does much, much better for this vast majority of players early in their careers - there needs to be a transformation to the system that puts these "Alec Burlesons" less "in arrears" from the beginning. If the owners want enough players (51%?), enough "Alec Burlesons," to support a new CBA that gives the owners what they may want (salary caps, salary floors, etc.) to improve competitiveness in MLB, winning over enough players to that CBA, IMO, has to be based on addressing this situation for players in their early careers.
less of a bargain it worked extremely well for AB. He's been questionable at making the roster the 2 prior seasons.
To ramp up the salary of an accumulative 0.5 WAR player prior to 2025 may also create less opportunity to establish himself. The 2025 season was rewarded in not just 3.3M but in more opportunities like a
starters position.
I support the midrange player as much as anyone. They typically are the ones to be squeezed. There
are FA's that go unsigned now. Edman getting that contract was unique. Donovan's value is also partially due
to his cost. He may not be as lucky as Edman in his FA search.
If teams replace AS level players with the next great prospect what happen win a 1-2 WAR player
cost too much. I see these 0.5-2 WAR players out of the game at 30 or trying to grab a Spring training
invite in this current system which definitely wouldn't increase their career earnings.
For example, in the case of Burleson, I noted that you could say he's made $2+ million but probably should have earned closer to $12+ million over 2022-2025.
Without going all the way into the details of the math, I'm looking a new system - between a higher ML min. and starting to make a new take on ARB adjustments after 1 yr. of service time - that might have paid Burleson closer to $5 million over 2022-2025. And then for 2026, I'd probably having him making about $5 million, based on his 2025 performance, vs. $3.3 million.
So, by the end of 2026, I'd have Burleson having made like $10 million instead of $5.5 million and he'd be that much less "in arrears" going into 2027.
That may not look like a huge difference in the context of a $5.28 billion industry in player salaries, but I think it would be very meaningful difference on level of individual players, in particular for guys who are "average" to "marginal" players who may have short careers and who moreso need to cash in when they can. If Burleson suffered a career ending injury this season, walking away from MLB having justifiably made $10 million instead of $5.5 million would make a huge difference in him and his family being "set for life".
In my conceptualization, even if it means Juan Soto gets $550 million instead of $750 million so that other $200 million can go to 40-50 "Alec Burlesons," I think that would be good for baseball.