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PacNWCardsfan2 wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 21:06 pm According to fangraphs, Soto's 5.8 was worth $46.4M, not $24.2M. Yet Gorman gets $2.65M for for substandard performance, so he got a $2M raise for being substantially below replacement level, because Arbitration doesn't allow salary to go down. At best he should have stayed a league minimum.
That being said, it's not about that, it's about what a team is willing to pay.
You can't expect him to accept less so some JAG can make more.
I do think salaries are too high which increases ticket prices but that is the norm now.

Per Cot's, MLB players in total were paid $5.28 billion in salary in 2025. If pay and production were more closely linked than they are in the current system, what might team payrolls have looked like, and what might that tell us about what a starting point could be for a salary cap/salary floor system?

First, assume every team sets aside $20 million (~$770,000 per roster spot) to pay the ML minimum to each player. That leaves $4.68 billion.

Next, there were 1000 fWAR across MLB in 2025. However, negative fWAR players are all going to get the ML minimum, so we really need to determine how many positive fWAR there were in 2025. There were 1157.6 positive fWAR (and, therefore, 157.6 negative fWAR to balance out to a total of 1000 fWAR).

So that would imply that positive fWAR players should get ~$4.04 million per positive fWAR they produce ($4.68 billion / 1157.6 = $4.04 million per positive fWAR), on top of their ML minimum.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 07:25 am We arrived at this point in part because of changed to free agent compensation which were put in place to benefit the big market teams and union. As part of the sweeping reforms they need to return to the previous system in which a team lost their first round pick for signing a high level free agent and they lost more daft picks the more free agents they signed. No more deferred or renegotiated contracts.

That's one small part of sweeping changes that are needed.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 07:47 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 07:25 am We arrived at this point in part because of changed to free agent compensation which were put in place to benefit the big market teams and union. As part of the sweeping reforms they need to return to the previous system in which a team lost their first round pick for signing a high level free agent and they lost more daft picks the more free agents they signed. No more deferred or renegotiated contracts.

That's one small part of sweeping changes that are needed.

In my opinion, in getting from when free agency started back in 1976 to today in 2026, maybe the MLBPA was right for much of that time in taking a philosophical approach of believing that, if they could push the top contracts for superstar players higher and higher, it would rapidly and effectively raise what all players were getting paid. I think that worked when there was a semi-infinite supply of excess money that owners could, and would, put into the system once they had to pay players based on free agency prices.

However, I think the MLBPA needs to reconsider that philosophy. Other than the biggest market teams, I think we're seeing that 20+ mid to small market teams have decided they are at their limits of what they can and will spend on player salaries. So the MLBPA needs to focus on negotiating concessions (higher ML minimum, fewer years to ARB, fewer years to FA, etc.) which directly help getting money to the productive players who are not getting it under the current system, even if that means stalling out or even reducing the mega-contracts that are going to the superstar players.

passthebuck wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 08:20 am Any salary cap should include a revenue cap, and cost limits for fans attending and watching via streaming.

PacNWCardsfan2 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 10:06 am MM, I also agree that their will changes to minimums, years of ARB, years to FA.
Now, what owners ask for in return, is less clear, but cap/ floor wont be on the table.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 10:08 am

PacNWCardsfan2 wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 10:06 am MM, I also agree that their will changes to minimums, years of ARB, years to FA.
Now, what owners ask for in return, is less clear, but cap/ floor wont be on the table.

Those will go hand-in-hand for the owners.

If the players want a more favorable system for younger players, journeymen, regular players, etc., the owners will have to get their salary cap/floor system.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 09:48 am

passthebuck wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 08:20 am Any salary cap should include a revenue cap, and cost limits for fans attending and watching via streaming.

Now that's just anti-capitalist. This isn't amatuer baseball.

passthebuck wrote: ↑24 Feb 2026 16:37 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 09:48 am

passthebuck wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 08:20 am Any salary cap should include a revenue cap, and cost limits for fans attending and watching via streaming.

Now that's just anti-capitalist. This isn't amatuer baseball.

Then it seems moot to complain about player salaries. Some of them are forced to give up much worth in their early careers and are forced to make it up on the back end. That is the system they currently have. Capitalism suggests they should be free to market services to whoever will pay the most. Why does capitalism always seem to favor the owners of everything?

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑24 Feb 2026 17:38 pm

passthebuck wrote: ↑24 Feb 2026 16:37 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 09:48 am

passthebuck wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 08:20 am Any salary cap should include a revenue cap, and cost limits for fans attending and watching via streaming.

Now that's just anti-capitalist. This isn't amatuer baseball.

Then it seems moot to complain about player salaries. Some of them are forced to give up much worth in their early careers and are forced to make it up on the back end. That is the system they currently have. Capitalism suggests they should be free to market services to whoever will pay the most. Why does capitalism always seem to favor the owners of everything?

I disagree with the concept of "control" as well, as it now exists in MLB pre-free agency.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 04:55 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑24 Feb 2026 17:38 pm

passthebuck wrote: ↑24 Feb 2026 16:37 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 09:48 am

passthebuck wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 08:20 am Any salary cap should include a revenue cap, and cost limits for fans attending and watching via streaming.

Now that's just anti-capitalist. This isn't amatuer baseball.

Then it seems moot to complain about player salaries. Some of them are forced to give up much worth in their early careers and are forced to make it up on the back end. That is the system they currently have. Capitalism suggests they should be free to market services to whoever will pay the most. Why does capitalism always seem to favor the owners of everything?

I disagree with the concept of "control" as well, as it now exists in MLB pre-free agency.

For lack of a better way of putting it, whatever proposal the owners put on the table in order to get the discussion of a salary cap/floor going has to target driving a wedge between the relatively few "I got mine" star/superstar players and the many "I haven't got mine yet, if ever" young players, journeymen, etc.

The owners must put together a package of improvements in the compensation system - which may include a much higher ML minimum salary; cutting pre-ARB years to 2 or 1; offering FA after 5 years; etc. - which dramatically change the playing field for 50+% of the players who will have to vote on this new CBA.

IMO, the best thing that can happen for baseball right now is if the small/mid market owners and the players who aren't benefitting as much as they should from the current system can find common cause to transform the economics of baseball, notwithstanding what the big market owner and the star/superstar players and the agents think.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 05:09 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2026 04:55 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑24 Feb 2026 17:38 pm

passthebuck wrote: ↑24 Feb 2026 16:37 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑23 Feb 2026 09:48 am

passthebuck wrote: ↑22 Feb 2026 08:20 am Any salary cap should include a revenue cap, and cost limits for fans attending and watching via streaming.

Now that's just anti-capitalist. This isn't amatuer baseball.

Then it seems moot to complain about player salaries. Some of them are forced to give up much worth in their early careers and are forced to make it up on the back end. That is the system they currently have. Capitalism suggests they should be free to market services to whoever will pay the most. Why does capitalism always seem to favor the owners of everything?

I disagree with the concept of "control" as well, as it now exists in MLB pre-free agency.

For lack of a better way of putting it, whatever proposal the owners put on the table in order to get the discussion of a salary cap/floor going has to target driving a wedge between the relatively few "I got mine" star/superstar players and the many "I haven't got mine yet, if ever" young players, journeymen, etc.

The owners must put together a package of improvements in the compensation system - which may include a much higher ML minimum salary; cutting pre-ARB years to 2 or 1; offering FA after 5 years; etc. - which dramatically change the playing field for 50+% of the players who will have to vote on this new CBA.

IMO, the best thing that can happen for baseball right now is if the small/mid market owners and the players who aren't benefitting as much as they should from the current system can find common cause to transform the economics of baseball, notwithstanding what the big market owner and the star/superstar players and the agents think.

Finding that common cause has proved to be quite elusive. And the back lash from the top five teams, and the top ten players, may be a mountain too big to traverse.

These owners and stats don’t have to cave, they got theirs, and are in a position to wait it out. T

That’s the whole key- who has assets to survive the entire length. And I think that’s the top five power teams and top ten studs.