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rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 12:02 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 10:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:39 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:56 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.

But

I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.

You think running the starting pitching into the ground to protect the bullpen is good managing?

When you have M. Mikolas, E. Fedde and A. Pallante as 3/5ths of your starting rotation they ran themselves into the ground.

He actually did a good job with the staff he had in 2025, especially running the pen'.

(And understand SM, I loathe Oli and have wanted him gone for a couple years )

Explain why Liberatore in 29 starts only threw 90+ pitches 6 times. Only 1 time from July to the end of the season. Pallante did it 5 times in August alone.

Easy

Libby wasn't ramped up to start in 2025, didn't really find out he'd be in the SR until nearing the end of STing.

This season, with a full offseason to train as a starter, I'd expect him to exceed 90 pitches multi times in games he's pitching well.

Here's a stat for you SM:

In games started by the Toxic Trio of Mikolas-Fedde-Pallante the Cardinals only won 31 of their 82 games started or a .378 winning%.

In games started by others, they had a .588 winning%!

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 14:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 12:02 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 10:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:39 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:56 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.

But

I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.

You think running the starting pitching into the ground to protect the bullpen is good managing?

When you have M. Mikolas, E. Fedde and A. Pallante as 3/5ths of your starting rotation they ran themselves into the ground.

He actually did a good job with the staff he had in 2025, especially running the pen'.

(And understand SM, I loathe Oli and have wanted him gone for a couple years )

Explain why Liberatore in 29 starts only threw 90+ pitches 6 times. Only 1 time from July to the end of the season. Pallante did it 5 times in August alone.

Easy

Libby wasn't ramped up to start in 2025, didn't really find out he'd be in the SR until nearing the end of STing.

This season, with a full offseason to train as a starter, I'd expect him to exceed 90 pitches multi times in games he's pitching well.

Here's a stat for you SM:

In games started by the Toxic Trio of Mikolas-Fedde-Pallante the Cardinals only won 31 of their 82 games started or a .378 winning%.

In games started by others, they had a .588 winning%!

I'll be surprised if Liberatore is left on the mound with an obvious tired arm late in the season like what they did with Pallante who has a better career ERA than Liberatore.

A good manager doesn't have a predetermined outcome. He adjusts according to what he sees happening on the field. 2026 will be an interesting season. I wonder how he will handle May who didn't get to the 5th inning in 5 of his last 10 starts in 2025. One year contract. Does he get the Liberatore treatment or the Pallante treatment?

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 14:39 pm

alw80 wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:36 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 10:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:39 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:56 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.

But

I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.

You think running the starting pitching into the ground to protect the bullpen is good managing?

When you have M. Mikolas, E. Fedde and A. Pallante as 3/5ths of your starting rotation they ran themselves into the ground.

He actually did a good job with the staff he had in 2025, especially running the pen'.

(And understand SM, I loathe Oli and have wanted him gone for a couple years )

Explain why Liberatore in 29 starts only threw 90+ pitches 6 times. Only 1 time from July to the end of the season. Pallante did it 5 times in August alone.

They probably saw Libby as a future member of the rotation and wanted to save his arm as much as possible and Pallante and Mikolas not so much.

What does that do to morale in the dugout and to attendance? You pay $100 + dollars to take the family to the game and the pitcher is getting knocked around but left in the game because he isn't in next season's plans?

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

alw80 wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 15:22 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 14:39 pm

alw80 wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:36 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 10:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:39 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:56 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.

But

I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.

You think running the starting pitching into the ground to protect the bullpen is good managing?

When you have M. Mikolas, E. Fedde and A. Pallante as 3/5ths of your starting rotation they ran themselves into the ground.

He actually did a good job with the staff he had in 2025, especially running the pen'.

(And understand SM, I loathe Oli and have wanted him gone for a couple years )

Explain why Liberatore in 29 starts only threw 90+ pitches 6 times. Only 1 time from July to the end of the season. Pallante did it 5 times in August alone.

They probably saw Libby as a future member of the rotation and wanted to save his arm as much as possible and Pallante and Mikolas not so much.

What does that do to morale in the dugout and to attendance? You pay $100 + dollars to take the family to the game and the pitcher is getting knocked around but left in the game because he isn't in next season's plans?

Morale in the dugout? I dont think the players are stupid, they know what it is. Anybody who paid to go to games last year knew what they were getting themselves into. I know you hate Oli but you're really reaching here to create a reason for your hate.

TopofthePerch wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 15:26 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

That has zero to do with it imo. It's as simple as Bloom is now in charge and will take this year to evaluate the new group and how they work together. That includes the manager.

Dazepster wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 20:42 pm I don't believe Mo was replaced. Mo abdicated The Throne.

He hired Bloom and allowed Bloom a year to shadow him and get to see the Org from the inside and the out before taking over. And did the right thing his final year by not sandbagging his successor with addl moves of dubious quality.

I believe he simply had enough of the constant criticism and packed it in. He lasted a lot longer on the Hot Seat than Jeff Albert. Made of sterner stuff I guess Lol

Our Boogeyman is Gone. Let's not continue to give him life.

A New Dawn is Before Us

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 14:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 12:02 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 10:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:39 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:56 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.

But

I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.

You think running the starting pitching into the ground to protect the bullpen is good managing?

When you have M. Mikolas, E. Fedde and A. Pallante as 3/5ths of your starting rotation they ran themselves into the ground.

He actually did a good job with the staff he had in 2025, especially running the pen'.

(And understand SM, I loathe Oli and have wanted him gone for a couple years )

Explain why Liberatore in 29 starts only threw 90+ pitches 6 times. Only 1 time from July to the end of the season. Pallante did it 5 times in August alone.

Easy

Libby wasn't ramped up to start in 2025, didn't really find out he'd be in the SR until nearing the end of STing.

This season, with a full offseason to train as a starter, I'd expect him to exceed 90 pitches multi times in games he's pitching well.

Here's a stat for you SM:

In games started by the Toxic Trio of Mikolas-Fedde-Pallante the Cardinals only won 31 of their 82 games started or a .378 winning%.

In games started by others, they had a .588 winning%!

I'll be surprised if Liberatore is left on the mound with an obvious tired arm late in the season like what they did with Pallante who has a better career ERA than Liberatore.

A good manager doesn't have a predetermined outcome. He adjusts according to what he sees happening on the field. 2026 will be an interesting season. I wonder how he will handle May who didn't get to the 5th inning in 5 of his last 10 starts in 2025. One year contract. Does he get the Liberatore treatment or the Pallante treatment?

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:45 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:29 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

What would you say were his better options in handling the pitching staff?

Month of August Pallante posted an era of 8.67 in 6 starts and was left in the game to throw 90 + pitches in 5 of 6 starts. Obviously had a tired arm. Marmol adhered to a script instead of managing according to what was happening on the field.

The only possible defense is Mozeliak's "game planner" who Bloom has since reassigned. It's possible Marmol was being forced to adhere to a predetermined outcome but it was asinine to leave Pallante in those games. Imagine taking you family to a game and you see that. Are you inclined to attend another game?

JuanAgosto wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 01:33 am Mo proved over and over that he was a putz.
Oli has been little more than a pud the past 3 seasons.
Oli is around because the roster is suspect and the organization isn't concerned about winning.

I dont mind seeing what Marmol can do without Johnny bow ties being around. If he surpasses expectations, great. If the team looks the same as 2023, 24 and 25, he should joing the bow tied jackass in retirement.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:32 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 14:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 12:02 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 10:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:39 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:56 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.

But

I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.

You think running the starting pitching into the ground to protect the bullpen is good managing?

When you have M. Mikolas, E. Fedde and A. Pallante as 3/5ths of your starting rotation they ran themselves into the ground.

He actually did a good job with the staff he had in 2025, especially running the pen'.

(And understand SM, I loathe Oli and have wanted him gone for a couple years )

Explain why Liberatore in 29 starts only threw 90+ pitches 6 times. Only 1 time from July to the end of the season. Pallante did it 5 times in August alone.

Easy

Libby wasn't ramped up to start in 2025, didn't really find out he'd be in the SR until nearing the end of STing.

This season, with a full offseason to train as a starter, I'd expect him to exceed 90 pitches multi times in games he's pitching well.

Here's a stat for you SM:

In games started by the Toxic Trio of Mikolas-Fedde-Pallante the Cardinals only won 31 of their 82 games started or a .378 winning%.

In games started by others, they had a .588 winning%!

I'll be surprised if Liberatore is left on the mound with an obvious tired arm late in the season like what they did with Pallante who has a better career ERA than Liberatore.

A good manager doesn't have a predetermined outcome. He adjusts according to what he sees happening on the field. 2026 will be an interesting season. I wonder how he will handle May who didn't get to the 5th inning in 5 of his last 10 starts in 2025. One year contract. Does he get the Liberatore treatment or the Pallante treatment?

What pitcher is left on the mound w/a tried arm late in the season?

Doing that invites shoulder/elbow issues.

Pallante didn't have a tired arm, he just flat out sucked.

You should stopped at "A good manager....) since we don't have one.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 11:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:32 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 14:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 12:02 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 10:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:39 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:56 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.

But

I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.

You think running the starting pitching into the ground to protect the bullpen is good managing?

When you have M. Mikolas, E. Fedde and A. Pallante as 3/5ths of your starting rotation they ran themselves into the ground.

He actually did a good job with the staff he had in 2025, especially running the pen'.

(And understand SM, I loathe Oli and have wanted him gone for a couple years )

Explain why Liberatore in 29 starts only threw 90+ pitches 6 times. Only 1 time from July to the end of the season. Pallante did it 5 times in August alone.

Easy

Libby wasn't ramped up to start in 2025, didn't really find out he'd be in the SR until nearing the end of STing.

This season, with a full offseason to train as a starter, I'd expect him to exceed 90 pitches multi times in games he's pitching well.

Here's a stat for you SM:

In games started by the Toxic Trio of Mikolas-Fedde-Pallante the Cardinals only won 31 of their 82 games started or a .378 winning%.

In games started by others, they had a .588 winning%!

I'll be surprised if Liberatore is left on the mound with an obvious tired arm late in the season like what they did with Pallante who has a better career ERA than Liberatore.

A good manager doesn't have a predetermined outcome. He adjusts according to what he sees happening on the field. 2026 will be an interesting season. I wonder how he will handle May who didn't get to the 5th inning in 5 of his last 10 starts in 2025. One year contract. Does he get the Liberatore treatment or the Pallante treatment?

What pitcher is left on the mound w/a tried arm late in the season?

Doing that invites shoulder/elbow issues.

Pallante didn't have a tired arm, he just flat out sucked.

You should stopped at "A good manager....) since we don't have one.

On this we disagree. Pallante declined as the season progressed. 4.13 ERA in April. 8 + ERA in August.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 12:11 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 11:49 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Feb 2026 08:32 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 14:51 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 12:02 pm

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 11:24 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 10:26 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 09:39 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 08:56 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑20 Feb 2026 07:25 am The roster wasn't good and replacing Marmol would be blaming it all on him. I thought Marmol mishandled the pitching staff last season and I'm not convinced he is a good manager but Bloom wasn't going to fire him because doing that would suggest the roster was good enough to win.

If it was up to me I'd have replaced Marmol and brought in a new group of coaches but Bloom wasn't going to do that.

Certainly want Oli gone ASAP but I understand why BDWJr wouldn't allow C. Bloom to axe him this season given he's under contract, perhaps might even give him a one year (re: millions under what he might have to pay his new manger) extension given the lockout is on the horizon.

But

I don't compliment him on almost anything since I think he's a huge "MEH" as a manager but the one thing he did do good (IMO) SM is manage his pitching staff, especially his bullpen in 2025.

You think running the starting pitching into the ground to protect the bullpen is good managing?

When you have M. Mikolas, E. Fedde and A. Pallante as 3/5ths of your starting rotation they ran themselves into the ground.

He actually did a good job with the staff he had in 2025, especially running the pen'.

(And understand SM, I loathe Oli and have wanted him gone for a couple years )

Explain why Liberatore in 29 starts only threw 90+ pitches 6 times. Only 1 time from July to the end of the season. Pallante did it 5 times in August alone.

Easy

Libby wasn't ramped up to start in 2025, didn't really find out he'd be in the SR until nearing the end of STing.

This season, with a full offseason to train as a starter, I'd expect him to exceed 90 pitches multi times in games he's pitching well.

Here's a stat for you SM:

In games started by the Toxic Trio of Mikolas-Fedde-Pallante the Cardinals only won 31 of their 82 games started or a .378 winning%.

In games started by others, they had a .588 winning%!

I'll be surprised if Liberatore is left on the mound with an obvious tired arm late in the season like what they did with Pallante who has a better career ERA than Liberatore.

A good manager doesn't have a predetermined outcome. He adjusts according to what he sees happening on the field. 2026 will be an interesting season. I wonder how he will handle May who didn't get to the 5th inning in 5 of his last 10 starts in 2025. One year contract. Does he get the Liberatore treatment or the Pallante treatment?

What pitcher is left on the mound w/a tried arm late in the season?

Doing that invites shoulder/elbow issues.

Pallante didn't have a tired arm, he just flat out sucked.

You should stopped at "A good manager....) since we don't have one.

On this we disagree. Pallante declined as the season progressed. 4.13 ERA in April. 8 + ERA in August.

No sweat, always respect your opinion!

Pallante
May - July (certainly NOT fatigued)
15 GS
4.80 ERA
1.32 WHiP

He s u c k e d