What makes anyone think Church is anything more than Siani?

[Cardinals4Life]

Siani was a very flawed player, but he was not okay defensively. He was an excellent defensive center fielder.

I'm not sure why Mike Antico does not get more of a look. Similar skill set to Church or Scott but I think he might be a better MLB hitter if given the chance.

Antico is not the hitter Church is.

[CCard]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

Church is a WAY better player than Siani. Not even close. Church has shown good offensive numbers in the minors. He is a plus defender, can handle CF, and has a very strong arm. Probably not the power numbers for an everyday corner OFer, but he has a chance to be very good.

Give the guy a shot. I think he will impress.

Where are these good offensive numbers? So, Siani was a plus defender too but it takes more than a glove.

Siani literally never had an above average batting line (>100 wRC+) at any level, minors or majors.

Church was 8% above average in '23, 9% above average the second half of '24, 57% above average in AA in '25, and 44% above average in AAA in '25.

Their bats aren't even close.

True I guess, but neither has any real slugging power. Maybe Church can hit for avg and play good defense. I'm all for it.

[CCard]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

Have you seen Church play in person? He has more raw power than Siani (and Scott) and it isn't close.

"Okay defensively" is really underselling him as well. He led the minors in OF assists in 2024 and has been rated by BA as the best defensive outfielder in the Cards system. That's certainly better than "okay defensively." Go watch his defensive highlights from his short stint in Aug/Sept

He hit better than Scott in college, in AA, and in AAA. His first 65 PA's in the majors were also better than Scott's first 65 PA's. He deserves regular PA's to prove what he can, especially in a rebuilding year.

More raw power? LOL
Nathan Church has shown improvement offensively, with a notable increase in his OPS to over .900 in the minor leagues, indicating potential as a solid hitter. However, his major league performance has been less impressive, with a batting average of .179 in his debut season.

To me Scott and Church seem nearly the same to be honest. Scott has more talent and speed. Church might hit for a slightly higher avg. Neither are setting the world on fire. Sure, go ahead and have a competition.

You've clearly never seen them hit in person if you're laughing here.

And you mean Church or Scott? Church hit .179 with 46 wRC+ in 65 PA's in his debut, while Scott hit .179 with a 40 wRC+ in over 150 PA's in his debut season (both are still a small sample).

The difference is Scott has an extra 450 PA's where he still hasn't hit, and that's a decent sample size. Can he improve? Sure hope so.

But we haven't seen what Church can do with 600 PA's. Scott has a career line of .206/.283/.293/.576 (67 wRC+) and 1.3 fWAR in 600 PA's. Not exactly a high bar

Nathan Church, an outfielder for the St. Louis Cardinals, has a career batting average of .179 with 1 home run and 8 runs batted in as of the end of the 2025 season. He made his MLB debut on August 17, 2025, and has played in 27 games.

Of course he did better in the minor leagues but then again a lot of players do. I mean, I guess he deserves a chance. Just not a slugger.

[ecleme22]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

This OP implies Church is getting a lot of hype.

I haven’t seen it.

[Melville]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

There may not be much in Church, but it won't take much to be more than Siani.

[rockondlouie]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

Sure it's a SSS but he doesn't seem like another player who's J.A.G.

I mean, I guess it's okay to give him some playing time and see if he can keep up good play. He's just such a low floor player in my eyes. Then again, I literally hated Siani getting playing time, and for good reason.

He'll likely get it too cc, especially while Noot's out and again if (when?) J. Walker hits the skids.....again.

(And I hated Sinai getting playing time too)

[moose-and-squirrel]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

There may not be much in Church, but it won't take much to be more than Siani.

or Scott, for that matter

[cosmo.kramer]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

Church is a WAY better player than Siani. Not even close. Church has shown good offensive numbers in the minors. He is a plus defender, can handle CF, and has a very strong arm. Probably not the power numbers for an everyday corner OFer, but he has a chance to be very good.

Give the guy a shot. I think he will impress.

Where are these good offensive numbers? So, Siani was a plus defender too but it takes more than a glove.

Siani literally never had an above average batting line (>100 wRC+) at any level, minors or majors.

Church was 8% above average in '23, 9% above average the second half of '24, 57% above average in AA in '25, and 44% above average in AAA in '25.

Their bats aren't even close.

True I guess, but neither has any real slugging power. Maybe Church can hit for avg and play good defense. I'm all for it.

Church slugged over .500 last year in AA and also carried that into AAA.

Siani's highest slugging at any level for any meaningful PA's is .404.

The comparison is silly. Church is much better than Siani

[Bomber1]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

Church is a WAY better player than Siani. Not even close. Church has shown good offensive numbers in the minors. He is a plus defender, can handle CF, and has a very strong arm. Probably not the power numbers for an everyday corner OFer, but he has a chance to be very good.

Give the guy a shot. I think he will impress.

Where are these good offensive numbers? So, Siani was a plus defender too but it takes more than a glove.

Siani literally never had an above average batting line (>100 wRC+) at any level, minors or majors.

Church was 8% above average in '23, 9% above average the second half of '24, 57% above average in AA in '25, and 44% above average in AAA in '25.

Their bats aren't even close.

True I guess, but neither has any real slugging power. Maybe Church can hit for avg and play good defense. I'm all for it.

Church slugged over .500 last year in AA and also carried that into AAA.

Siani's highest slugging at any level for any meaningful PA's is .404.

The comparison is silly. Church is much better than Siani

I’m looking forward to seeing Church get a fair shot.

[cosmo.kramer]

Siani was a very flawed player, but he was not okay defensively. He was an excellent defensive center fielder.

I'm not sure why Mike Antico does not get more of a look. Similar skill set to Church or Scott but I think he might be a better MLB hitter if given the chance.

Antico is not the hitter Church is.

Nor defender. Antico has a noodle arm, even for LF.

[Cardinals1964]

As bad as VS2 hit, he still had a 2.2 War.
Not far off from perennial All Star Donovan’s 2.7.

[cosmo.kramer]

As bad as VS2 hit, he still had a 2.2 War.
Not far off from perennial All Star Donovan’s 2.7.

Victor Scott 463 PA's in 2025
Bref: 2.2
Fg: 1.7

Church 65 PA's in 2025
Bref: 0.4
Fg: 0.3

Church scaled to 463 PA's
Bref: 2.85
Fg: 2.14

(small sample obviously)

[CCard]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

Church is a WAY better player than Siani. Not even close. Church has shown good offensive numbers in the minors. He is a plus defender, can handle CF, and has a very strong arm. Probably not the power numbers for an everyday corner OFer, but he has a chance to be very good.

Give the guy a shot. I think he will impress.

Where are these good offensive numbers? So, Siani was a plus defender too but it takes more than a glove.

Siani literally never had an above average batting line (>100 wRC+) at any level, minors or majors.

Church was 8% above average in '23, 9% above average the second half of '24, 57% above average in AA in '25, and 44% above average in AAA in '25.

Their bats aren't even close.

True I guess, but neither has any real slugging power. Maybe Church can hit for avg and play good defense. I'm all for it.

Church slugged over .500 last year in AA and also carried that into AAA.

Siani's highest slugging at any level for any meaningful PA's is .404.

The comparison is silly. Church is much better than Siani

I wouldn't call him a power hitter. It just shows how bad Siani was. But Church has shown some upside for sure. An OPS of 900 in AAA is definitely encouraging. But it is a very short sample size and it isn't facing major league pitching. So while it could be promising and worth some playing time, I'd temper my expectations until he's a little more proven. I'll admit though that it's time for Walker and Scott to put up or go away. They've had enough time to adjust.

[CCard]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

Sure it's a SSS but he doesn't seem like another player who's J.A.G.

I mean, I guess it's okay to give him some playing time and see if he can keep up good play. He's just such a low floor player in my eyes. Then again, I literally hated Siani getting playing time, and for good reason.

He'll likely get it too cc, especially while Noot's out and again if (when?) J. Walker hits the skids.....again.

(And I hated Sinai getting playing time too)

It's been brought to my attention that Church has been much better than Siani so I guess (depending on his future play) that I stand corrected. I certainly hope that I was wrong about he and he becomes a great player. He still has to do it in the majors though.

[cosmo.kramer]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

Church is a WAY better player than Siani. Not even close. Church has shown good offensive numbers in the minors. He is a plus defender, can handle CF, and has a very strong arm. Probably not the power numbers for an everyday corner OFer, but he has a chance to be very good.

Give the guy a shot. I think he will impress.

Where are these good offensive numbers? So, Siani was a plus defender too but it takes more than a glove.

Siani literally never had an above average batting line (>100 wRC+) at any level, minors or majors.

Church was 8% above average in '23, 9% above average the second half of '24, 57% above average in AA in '25, and 44% above average in AAA in '25.

Their bats aren't even close.

True I guess, but neither has any real slugging power. Maybe Church can hit for avg and play good defense. I'm all for it.

Church slugged over .500 last year in AA and also carried that into AAA.

Siani's highest slugging at any level for any meaningful PA's is .404.

The comparison is silly. Church is much better than Siani

I wouldn't call him a power hitter. It just shows how bad Siani was. But Church has shown some upside for sure. An OPS of 900 in AAA is definitely encouraging. But it is a very short sample size and it isn't facing major league pitching. So while it could be promising and worth some playing time, I'd temper my expectations until he's a little more proven. I'll admit though that it's time for Walker and Scott to put up or go away. They've had enough time to adjust.

Agreed, will be a key season for both of them. Seems like the lineup could be Church/Scott/Walker until Noot gets his legs back.

Excited to see how they do

[CCard]

Looks like a no power outfielder that is okay defensively. People here think he should challenge Scott for CF? Maybe you all see something I don't in Church.

There may not be much in Church, but it won't take much to be more than Siani.

True that. I've posted elsewhere that it was brought to my attention that Church has been much better lately. After checking some stats it appears that he OPS'd .900 last year in AAA. It's a short sample size of course but if he does any of that for the Cards it would be a welcome addition for sure. You don't have to just hit homers to slug, a single and stolen base is fine with me. Even more so because it makes a pitcher have to work more.