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Melville wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:18 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:05 pm

CNYFan wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 12:21 pm Pages, contrary to many naysayers on CT, has some important value as a decent MLB defensive backstop and a hitter with some occasional pop.

Pages has very little value to other teams.

Most if not all organizations have a version of Pedro Pages in their system.

The fact that he was 11th most in starts by a catcher in 2025 says otherwise.

What it says is we didn't have any other catcher worth a rip.

riff raff wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:23 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:18 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:05 pm

CNYFan wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 12:21 pm Pages, contrary to many naysayers on CT, has some important value as a decent MLB defensive backstop and a hitter with some occasional pop.

Pages has very little value to other teams.

Most if not all organizations have a version of Pedro Pages in their system.

The fact that he was 11th most in starts by a catcher in 2025 says otherwise.

What it says is we didn't have any other catcher else worth a rip.

Apparently, nearly 20 teams had even worse options....

Mel you are smarter than this.

Teams use a 2 catcher system more now than ever. So starts by a catcher is a terrible way to frame a debate.

Ask yourself, and be honest with yourself, how many other teams would Pages start on?

Pages is JAG bro. Pick another battle

Melville wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:18 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:05 pm

CNYFan wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 12:21 pm Pages, contrary to many naysayers on CT, has some important value as a decent MLB defensive backstop and a hitter with some occasional pop.

Pages has very little value to other teams.

Most if not all organizations have a version of Pedro Pages in their system.

The fact that he was 11th most in starts by a catcher in 2025 says otherwise.

This makes little sense, Mel.
Are you saying because he started the 11th most games he is somehow worthy? He certainly is not. Offensively, he is a black hole. His defense/handling of the staff is also overrated. I don't dislike Petey, but he should not be a MLB starter.

Please elaborate.

Melville wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:27 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:23 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:18 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:05 pm

CNYFan wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 12:21 pm Pages, contrary to many naysayers on CT, has some important value as a decent MLB defensive backstop and a hitter with some occasional pop.

Pages has very little value to other teams.

Most if not all organizations have a version of Pedro Pages in their system.

The fact that he was 11th most in starts by a catcher in 2025 says otherwise.

What it says is we didn't have any other catcher else worth a rip.

Apparently, nearly 20 teams had even worse options....

As usual you're being disingenuous.
You never disappoint

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:33 pm Mel you are smarter than this.

Teams use a 2 catcher system more now than ever. So starts by a catcher is a terrible way to frame a debate.

Ask yourself, and be honest with yourself, how many other teams would Pages start on?

Pages is JAG bro. Pick another battle

I have said repeatedly that he is not the long term answer.
There are 2 realities.
One, the Cardinals had 4 catchers from whom to choose last season and assign the primary starting duties - and they (coaches, pitchers) picked Pages by a wide margin.
Two, over half of MLB team would have done the same.
Like it or not, that is the reality.
Not an endorsement.
But it is the bias free, agenda free reality of the situation.
Facts.
All I do.
Now, if you want my opinion, I would like to see Crooks hit well enough to become the primary catcher in 2026.
But that is a different conversation entirely.

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:38 pm

Melville wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:18 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:05 pm

CNYFan wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 12:21 pm Pages, contrary to many naysayers on CT, has some important value as a decent MLB defensive backstop and a hitter with some occasional pop.

Pages has very little value to other teams.

Most if not all organizations have a version of Pedro Pages in their system.

The fact that he was 11th most in starts by a catcher in 2025 says otherwise.

This makes little sense, Mel.
Are you saying because he started the 11th most games he is somehow worthy? He certainly is not. Offensively, he is a black hole. His defense/handling of the staff is also overrated. I don't dislike Petey, but he should not be a MLB starter.

Please elaborate.

Facts and opinions are very different things.
FACT: the Cardinals coaches and pitchers determined Pages was the best starting catcher option each of the past 2 years.
FACT: he was 11th in MLB starts last year.
FACT: nearly 20 teams determined they had no catcher deserving of more starts.
FACT: the Cardinals have tried other 4 catchers at the position over the past 2 seasons - and he beat each of them for the job.
That is the reality.
Now, you and I may be of the OPINION that he should not be a starting MLB catcher - or should not be STL's starting catcher.
But, like it or not, he is.
Could change.
Bloom may overrule every sane person and force Herrera into the role to repeat the multiple previous failed such experiments.
Crooks may take the job away from Pages in 2026 - which I would like to see happen.
But to say Pages in not currently an MLB starting catcher simply does not square with the facts.
He is competent, adequate MLB starting catcher - but I think what we are both saying is that STL should aim for something more.
Certainly better than the 2020 - 2022 3-year stretch from Molina - but fans are absolutely understandably spoiled by the elite Molina in younger years.
That has colored the judgment of most, but is a ridiculous current standard.

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:33 pm Mel you are smarter than this.

Teams use a 2 catcher system more now than ever. So starts by a catcher is a terrible way to frame a debate.

Ask yourself, and be honest with yourself, how many other teams would Pages start on?

Pages is JAG bro. Pick another battle

You lost him at “be honest” . . .

The Herrera situation reminds me of Todd Zeile. Zeile had long been touted as the Cardinals catcher of the future. However, once he got to STL, it was obvious he couldn’t catch. However, he went on to have a long career as a 3B and 1B/DH. I see same path for Herrera.

Red7 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 16:13 pm The Herrera situation reminds me of Todd Zeile. Zeile had long been touted as the Cardinals catcher of the future. However, once he got to STL, it was obvious he couldn’t catch. However, he went on to have a long career as a 3B and 1B/DH. I see same path for Herrera.

Solid comparison - though Zeile was far superior to Herrera defensively.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 08:49 am

cardinalsfever44 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 07:50 am 4. Rainel Rodriguez

Scouting Report

...he could grow into a defense-first backup with some pop or, in an optimistic scenario, a timeshare catcher.

That is about the most out of line take on Rodriguez that I've seen.

He's definitely a bat-first prospect who is developing defensively.

I agree...when was this projection from...this kid can hit

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:33 pm Mel you are smarter than this.

Teams use a 2 catcher system more now than ever. So starts by a catcher is a terrible way to frame a debate.

Ask yourself, and be honest with yourself, how many other teams would Pages start on?

Pages is JAG bro. Pick another battle

Pages IS a JAG. He’s also an MLB starting catcher. You can be both. The fact that he’s the Cardinals’ best option is the problem.

Red7 wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 17:21 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑08 Feb 2026 14:33 pm Mel you are smarter than this.

Teams use a 2 catcher system more now than ever. So starts by a catcher is a terrible way to frame a debate.

Ask yourself, and be honest with yourself, how many other teams would Pages start on?

Pages is JAG bro. Pick another battle

Pages IS a JAG. He’s also an MLB starting catcher. You can be both. The fact that he’s the Cardinals’ best option is the problem.

He is not our best option. He is the 3rd best option.

1.) Herrera
2.) Crooks
3.) Pages

Herrera can't catch or throw and Crooks was helpless at the plate. Pages was a Silver Slugger compared to him. Now, Crooks may improve at the plate, but Cardinals' pitchers prefer Pages and that cannot be overlooked. Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm not here to sing Pages' praises. You're right. He's nothing special. Hopefully, Crooks, Bernal, or Rodriguez will replace him. However, until they show they can, it's Pages.