If Donovan and Nootbaar for Ellridge was the deal, I do that in light speed. I would be shocked if Bloom hesitated on that. I would do Donny/Crooks too if they needed a CICCFIM2 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 18:00 pm Josuar Gonzalez has a BTV of 39.4 compared to Donovan's 30.7 which is down a tick from a week or so ago. So if he was included by the Giants, he is going to be the headliner if not the only player coming back. He might be great, he might not. I have a hard time getting excited about an 18 year old SS that weighs under 170 pounds. Didn't we draft a guy like that a few years ago, he had some PED issues, we drafted him in the first round and he couldn't hit the ball out of the infield. This kids rookie ball stats were out of the ballpark. But, again, he is a long way off.
Eldridge has a BTV of 48.9. We are not getting him for Donovan. We might get him if they also want Nootbar. But, it would be Donovan plus Nootbar for Eldridge. As impressive as Eldridge looks, I went back to look at how many 60 grade prospects the Cards have had in the last 6 years. There are three, Dylan Carlson, Jordan Walker and JJ Wetherholdt. There are no sure things...
If we want a mix of high upside, proximity to MLs and a bit lower level, Bo Davidson, BTV 14 50 Grade probably starts this year in AAA. He was great at A ball, but struggled at AA last year. Dakota Jordan BTV 11.6 50 Grade RH power hitting OF prospect, probably starts the year in AA probably likely a late 2027 ML debut more likely 2028. Carson Whisenhunt BTV 6.5 50 Grade, probably ready to start in the rotation on opening day 2026.
The total for that Giant prospect group BTV is 32.1, which matches up well to Donovan. I would be OK with that trade. We should also recognize that the Cards could end up with zero out of that trade at the ML level. It is a bit of a quantity for quality trade, which in general I think the Cards should avoid if they trade Donovan. But, there is upside with the 2 OF prospects the Cards definitely need. Whisenhunt throws another pitcher into the pile in the hope a few of them turn out to be good and healthy.
When I saw the trade of Gore by the Nationals to the Rangers, that was also a quality for quantity trade. Similar type prospects going back to the Nationals and more of them.
If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
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Jobu's Rum
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
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ICCFIM2
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
I probably would also. I was just pointing out that our last 2 60 Grade prospects that made the MLs have failed or are in the process of doing so. I have huge hopes for Wetherholdt. But there are no sure things when it comes to prospects, even guys that are top 10 prospects or even #1 prospects in all of baseball.Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 21:21 pmIf Donovan and Nootbaar for Ellridge was the deal, I do that in light speed. I would be shocked if Bloom hesitated on that. I would do Donny/Crooks too if they needed a CICCFIM2 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 18:00 pm Josuar Gonzalez has a BTV of 39.4 compared to Donovan's 30.7 which is down a tick from a week or so ago. So if he was included by the Giants, he is going to be the headliner if not the only player coming back. He might be great, he might not. I have a hard time getting excited about an 18 year old SS that weighs under 170 pounds. Didn't we draft a guy like that a few years ago, he had some PED issues, we drafted him in the first round and he couldn't hit the ball out of the infield. This kids rookie ball stats were out of the ballpark. But, again, he is a long way off.
Eldridge has a BTV of 48.9. We are not getting him for Donovan. We might get him if they also want Nootbar. But, it would be Donovan plus Nootbar for Eldridge. As impressive as Eldridge looks, I went back to look at how many 60 grade prospects the Cards have had in the last 6 years. There are three, Dylan Carlson, Jordan Walker and JJ Wetherholdt. There are no sure things...
If we want a mix of high upside, proximity to MLs and a bit lower level, Bo Davidson, BTV 14 50 Grade probably starts this year in AAA. He was great at A ball, but struggled at AA last year. Dakota Jordan BTV 11.6 50 Grade RH power hitting OF prospect, probably starts the year in AA probably likely a late 2027 ML debut more likely 2028. Carson Whisenhunt BTV 6.5 50 Grade, probably ready to start in the rotation on opening day 2026.
The total for that Giant prospect group BTV is 32.1, which matches up well to Donovan. I would be OK with that trade. We should also recognize that the Cards could end up with zero out of that trade at the ML level. It is a bit of a quantity for quality trade, which in general I think the Cards should avoid if they trade Donovan. But, there is upside with the 2 OF prospects the Cards definitely need. Whisenhunt throws another pitcher into the pile in the hope a few of them turn out to be good and healthy.
When I saw the trade of Gore by the Nationals to the Rangers, that was also a quality for quantity trade. Similar type prospects going back to the Nationals and more of them.
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2ninr
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
That's not enough. Donny Crooks and Newt is a bit of an overpay. But think what you would want for JJ. Think what you get for those guys individually. It's their #1 organizational prospect. I would do it. I dont see a future in stlouis for any of those 3 guys going out and you would put another possible high ceiling player in the system. I would do that. They probably don't. I just don't see a path to Eldridge.Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 21:21 pmIf Donovan and Nootbaar for Ellridge was the deal, I do that in light speed. I would be shocked if Bloom hesitated on that. I would do Donny/Crooks too if they needed a CICCFIM2 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 18:00 pm Josuar Gonzalez has a BTV of 39.4 compared to Donovan's 30.7 which is down a tick from a week or so ago. So if he was included by the Giants, he is going to be the headliner if not the only player coming back. He might be great, he might not. I have a hard time getting excited about an 18 year old SS that weighs under 170 pounds. Didn't we draft a guy like that a few years ago, he had some PED issues, we drafted him in the first round and he couldn't hit the ball out of the infield. This kids rookie ball stats were out of the ballpark. But, again, he is a long way off.
Eldridge has a BTV of 48.9. We are not getting him for Donovan. We might get him if they also want Nootbar. But, it would be Donovan plus Nootbar for Eldridge. As impressive as Eldridge looks, I went back to look at how many 60 grade prospects the Cards have had in the last 6 years. There are three, Dylan Carlson, Jordan Walker and JJ Wetherholdt. There are no sure things...
If we want a mix of high upside, proximity to MLs and a bit lower level, Bo Davidson, BTV 14 50 Grade probably starts this year in AAA. He was great at A ball, but struggled at AA last year. Dakota Jordan BTV 11.6 50 Grade RH power hitting OF prospect, probably starts the year in AA probably likely a late 2027 ML debut more likely 2028. Carson Whisenhunt BTV 6.5 50 Grade, probably ready to start in the rotation on opening day 2026.
The total for that Giant prospect group BTV is 32.1, which matches up well to Donovan. I would be OK with that trade. We should also recognize that the Cards could end up with zero out of that trade at the ML level. It is a bit of a quantity for quality trade, which in general I think the Cards should avoid if they trade Donovan. But, there is upside with the 2 OF prospects the Cards definitely need. Whisenhunt throws another pitcher into the pile in the hope a few of them turn out to be good and healthy.
When I saw the trade of Gore by the Nationals to the Rangers, that was also a quality for quantity trade. Similar type prospects going back to the Nationals and more of them.
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ICCFIM2
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
You might be right. The problem with that trade for both sides, is as you stated, they probably do not want to part with their #1 prospect similar to the cards not wanting to part with Wetherholdt. Second, the Cards are not going to want to trade 3 guys for 1 guy and that 1 guy is a prospect. That gets back to whether the Giants would be willing to do a quantity for quality trade as I suggested above, both their power hitting OF prospects plus Whisenhunt for Donovan. Not sure the Cards want that either. You have to think that if Donovan is going to be traded, it will happen in the next 2 weeks.2ninr wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 06:16 amThat's not enough. Donny Crooks and Newt is a bit of an overpay. But think what you would want for JJ. Think what you get for those guys individually. It's their #1 organizational prospect. I would do it. I dont see a future in stlouis for any of those 3 guys going out and you would put another possible high ceiling player in the system. I would do that. They probably don't. I just don't see a path to Eldridge.Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 21:21 pmIf Donovan and Nootbaar for Ellridge was the deal, I do that in light speed. I would be shocked if Bloom hesitated on that. I would do Donny/Crooks too if they needed a CICCFIM2 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 18:00 pm Josuar Gonzalez has a BTV of 39.4 compared to Donovan's 30.7 which is down a tick from a week or so ago. So if he was included by the Giants, he is going to be the headliner if not the only player coming back. He might be great, he might not. I have a hard time getting excited about an 18 year old SS that weighs under 170 pounds. Didn't we draft a guy like that a few years ago, he had some PED issues, we drafted him in the first round and he couldn't hit the ball out of the infield. This kids rookie ball stats were out of the ballpark. But, again, he is a long way off.
Eldridge has a BTV of 48.9. We are not getting him for Donovan. We might get him if they also want Nootbar. But, it would be Donovan plus Nootbar for Eldridge. As impressive as Eldridge looks, I went back to look at how many 60 grade prospects the Cards have had in the last 6 years. There are three, Dylan Carlson, Jordan Walker and JJ Wetherholdt. There are no sure things...
If we want a mix of high upside, proximity to MLs and a bit lower level, Bo Davidson, BTV 14 50 Grade probably starts this year in AAA. He was great at A ball, but struggled at AA last year. Dakota Jordan BTV 11.6 50 Grade RH power hitting OF prospect, probably starts the year in AA probably likely a late 2027 ML debut more likely 2028. Carson Whisenhunt BTV 6.5 50 Grade, probably ready to start in the rotation on opening day 2026.
The total for that Giant prospect group BTV is 32.1, which matches up well to Donovan. I would be OK with that trade. We should also recognize that the Cards could end up with zero out of that trade at the ML level. It is a bit of a quantity for quality trade, which in general I think the Cards should avoid if they trade Donovan. But, there is upside with the 2 OF prospects the Cards definitely need. Whisenhunt throws another pitcher into the pile in the hope a few of them turn out to be good and healthy.
When I saw the trade of Gore by the Nationals to the Rangers, that was also a quality for quantity trade. Similar type prospects going back to the Nationals and more of them.
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Shady
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
Wow ! If that was, indeed, the offer for Abrams. Bloom very likely could get something done for Donovan.Whatashame wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 20:52 pm I just saw an article written about what SF offered for CJ Abrams from Washington. The offer was
#2 Gonzales SS
#4 Jhonny Level SS
#5 Davidson OF
#7 Whisenhunt P
#11 Bresnahan P
Apparently they were willing to empty their farm for Abrams who I’m not sure is better than Donovan. Abrams was a huge prospect but as time has shown us, he also has his warts. More speed but not as good of a hitter. Also is a defensive liability at SS and doesn’t have the defensive flexibility that Donovan has. IF that’s what was offered for Abrams, I’m assuming a similar offer has been made for Donovan.
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NYCardsFan
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
Abrams is a more valuable player than Donovan--he's younger, and has one more year of control. Of course Bloom can "get something done for Donovan," but the pertinent question is what or how much is "something"? Donovan won't fetch as much as Abrams.Shady wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 19:55 pmWow ! If that was, indeed, the offer for Abrams. Bloom very likely could get something done for Donovan.Whatashame wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 20:52 pm I just saw an article written about what SF offered for CJ Abrams from Washington. The offer was
#2 Gonzales SS
#4 Jhonny Level SS
#5 Davidson OF
#7 Whisenhunt P
#11 Bresnahan P
Apparently they were willing to empty their farm for Abrams who I’m not sure is better than Donovan. Abrams was a huge prospect but as time has shown us, he also has his warts. More speed but not as good of a hitter. Also is a defensive liability at SS and doesn’t have the defensive flexibility that Donovan has. IF that’s what was offered for Abrams, I’m assuming a similar offer has been made for Donovan.
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VegasSully
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
I agree with this this last statement! Also, I don't mind trading 2 years of Donovan (a good but not great player) for Josuar Gonzalez. I agree with the original post that this is good value for the Cards. Eldridge and the complicated trades mentioned are never going to happen.ICCFIM2 wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 19:15 pmYou might be right. The problem with that trade for both sides, is as you stated, they probably do not want to part with their #1 prospect similar to the cards not wanting to part with Wetherholdt. Second, the Cards are not going to want to trade 3 guys for 1 guy and that 1 guy is a prospect. That gets back to whether the Giants would be willing to do a quantity for quality trade as I suggested above, both their power hitting OF prospects plus Whisenhunt for Donovan. Not sure the Cards want that either. You have to think that if Donovan is going to be traded, it will happen in the next 2 weeks.2ninr wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 06:16 amThat's not enough. Donny Crooks and Newt is a bit of an overpay. But think what you would want for JJ. Think what you get for those guys individually. It's their #1 organizational prospect. I would do it. I dont see a future in stlouis for any of those 3 guys going out and you would put another possible high ceiling player in the system. I would do that. They probably don't. I just don't see a path to Eldridge.Jobu's Rum wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 21:21 pmIf Donovan and Nootbaar for Ellridge was the deal, I do that in light speed. I would be shocked if Bloom hesitated on that. I would do Donny/Crooks too if they needed a CICCFIM2 wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 18:00 pm Josuar Gonzalez has a BTV of 39.4 compared to Donovan's 30.7 which is down a tick from a week or so ago. So if he was included by the Giants, he is going to be the headliner if not the only player coming back. He might be great, he might not. I have a hard time getting excited about an 18 year old SS that weighs under 170 pounds. Didn't we draft a guy like that a few years ago, he had some PED issues, we drafted him in the first round and he couldn't hit the ball out of the infield. This kids rookie ball stats were out of the ballpark. But, again, he is a long way off.
Eldridge has a BTV of 48.9. We are not getting him for Donovan. We might get him if they also want Nootbar. But, it would be Donovan plus Nootbar for Eldridge. As impressive as Eldridge looks, I went back to look at how many 60 grade prospects the Cards have had in the last 6 years. There are three, Dylan Carlson, Jordan Walker and JJ Wetherholdt. There are no sure things...
If we want a mix of high upside, proximity to MLs and a bit lower level, Bo Davidson, BTV 14 50 Grade probably starts this year in AAA. He was great at A ball, but struggled at AA last year. Dakota Jordan BTV 11.6 50 Grade RH power hitting OF prospect, probably starts the year in AA probably likely a late 2027 ML debut more likely 2028. Carson Whisenhunt BTV 6.5 50 Grade, probably ready to start in the rotation on opening day 2026.
The total for that Giant prospect group BTV is 32.1, which matches up well to Donovan. I would be OK with that trade. We should also recognize that the Cards could end up with zero out of that trade at the ML level. It is a bit of a quantity for quality trade, which in general I think the Cards should avoid if they trade Donovan. But, there is upside with the 2 OF prospects the Cards definitely need. Whisenhunt throws another pitcher into the pile in the hope a few of them turn out to be good and healthy.
When I saw the trade of Gore by the Nationals to the Rangers, that was also a quality for quantity trade. Similar type prospects going back to the Nationals and more of them.
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Whatashame
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 20:14 pmAbrams is a more valuable player than Donovan--he's younger, and has one more year of control. Of course Bloom can "get something done for Donovan," but the pertinent question is what or how much is "something"? Donovan won't fetch as much as Abrams.Shady wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 19:55 pmWow ! If that was, indeed, the offer for Abrams. Bloom very likely could get something done for Donovan.Whatashame wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 20:52 pm I just saw an article written about what SF offered for CJ Abrams from Washington. The offer was
#2 Gonzales SS
#4 Jhonny Level SS
#5 Davidson OF
#7 Whisenhunt P
#11 Bresnahan P
Apparently they were willing to empty their farm for Abrams who I’m not sure is better than Donovan. Abrams was a huge prospect but as time has shown us, he also has his warts. More speed but not as good of a hitter. Also is a defensive liability at SS and doesn’t have the defensive flexibility that Donovan has. IF that’s what was offered for Abrams, I’m assuming a similar offer has been made for Donovan.
The difference isn’t as great as it seems. Sure Abrams is younger 29/25 but hasn’t progressed as a player like was expected.
Donovan has a better lifetime average
.282/.249
Donovan has a better OBP
.361/.306
Donovan has a better OPS
.772/.717
Donovan has a better OPS+
117/101
Donovan is a better defender and can play multiple positions. Abrams is a defensive liability at the position he plays.
Abrams is younger but it’s a debatable opinion who is actually the better player. Donovan is a plug and play defender who gets on base. Abrams is a guy who came in as a highly thought of prospect but just hasn’t developed like they thought and may actually have to play another position. I doubt SF would use him at SS.
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NYCardsFan
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
I didn't say Abrams is "the better player" (at least for now), I said he is a more valuable player.Whatashame wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 21:28 pmNYCardsFan wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 20:14 pmAbrams is a more valuable player than Donovan--he's younger, and has one more year of control. Of course Bloom can "get something done for Donovan," but the pertinent question is what or how much is "something"? Donovan won't fetch as much as Abrams.Shady wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 19:55 pmWow ! If that was, indeed, the offer for Abrams. Bloom very likely could get something done for Donovan.Whatashame wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 20:52 pm I just saw an article written about what SF offered for CJ Abrams from Washington. The offer was
#2 Gonzales SS
#4 Jhonny Level SS
#5 Davidson OF
#7 Whisenhunt P
#11 Bresnahan P
Apparently they were willing to empty their farm for Abrams who I’m not sure is better than Donovan. Abrams was a huge prospect but as time has shown us, he also has his warts. More speed but not as good of a hitter. Also is a defensive liability at SS and doesn’t have the defensive flexibility that Donovan has. IF that’s what was offered for Abrams, I’m assuming a similar offer has been made for Donovan.
The difference isn’t as great as it seems. Sure Abrams is younger 29/25 but hasn’t progressed as a player like was expected.
Donovan has a better lifetime average
.282/.249
Donovan has a better OBP
.361/.306
Donovan has a better OPS
.772/.717
Donovan has a better OPS+
117/101
Donovan is a better defender and can play multiple positions. Abrams is a defensive liability at the position he plays.
Abrams is younger but it’s a debatable opinion who is actually the better player. Donovan is a plug and play defender who gets on base. Abrams is a guy who came in as a highly thought of prospect but just hasn’t developed like they thought and may actually have to play another position. I doubt SF would use him at SS.
In his age-24 season (last year), Abrams posted 3.1 fWAR. In Donovan's age-27 and age-28 seasons (he was still in the minors at age 24), he posted 3.2 and 2.9 fWAR. It's true that Abrams is a below-average fielder at SS, as Donovan likely would be if he had to play there every day. Donovan is versatile in the sense that he can play multiple positions competently, but he really isn't meaningfully above average at any of them. We don't really know whether Donovan is the "better defender" because Abrams has had to play a more demanding position full-time--it's comparing apples and oranges. We don't really know how Abrams would fare at 2B (or in the OF, for that matter), a less demanding defensive position where Donovan has played the biggest bulk of his innings and been basically average (1,756.2 IP, -5 DRS, 3 OAA, 1 FRV).
So if you have two 3-ish fWAR players--one who just turned 25 and has 3 years of control, and the other who just turned 29 and has 2 years of control--which do you think is likely to have more surplus value? FWIW, for all of the above reasons, Abrams unsurprisingly has a higher value on BTV:
Abrams: 52.9
Donovan: 30.7
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Whatashame
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
NYCardsFan wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 22:20 pmI didn't say Abrams is "the better player" (at least for now), I said he is a more valuable player.Whatashame wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 21:28 pmNYCardsFan wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 20:14 pmAbrams is a more valuable player than Donovan--he's younger, and has one more year of control. Of course Bloom can "get something done for Donovan," but the pertinent question is what or how much is "something"? Donovan won't fetch as much as Abrams.Shady wrote: ↑25 Jan 2026 19:55 pmWow ! If that was, indeed, the offer for Abrams. Bloom very likely could get something done for Donovan.Whatashame wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 20:52 pm I just saw an article written about what SF offered for CJ Abrams from Washington. The offer was
#2 Gonzales SS
#4 Jhonny Level SS
#5 Davidson OF
#7 Whisenhunt P
#11 Bresnahan P
Apparently they were willing to empty their farm for Abrams who I’m not sure is better than Donovan. Abrams was a huge prospect but as time has shown us, he also has his warts. More speed but not as good of a hitter. Also is a defensive liability at SS and doesn’t have the defensive flexibility that Donovan has. IF that’s what was offered for Abrams, I’m assuming a similar offer has been made for Donovan.
The difference isn’t as great as it seems. Sure Abrams is younger 29/25 but hasn’t progressed as a player like was expected.
Donovan has a better lifetime average
.282/.249
Donovan has a better OBP
.361/.306
Donovan has a better OPS
.772/.717
Donovan has a better OPS+
117/101
Donovan is a better defender and can play multiple positions. Abrams is a defensive liability at the position he plays.
Abrams is younger but it’s a debatable opinion who is actually the better player. Donovan is a plug and play defender who gets on base. Abrams is a guy who came in as a highly thought of prospect but just hasn’t developed like they thought and may actually have to play another position. I doubt SF would use him at SS.
In his age-24 season (last year), Abrams posted 3.1 fWAR. In Donovan's age-27 and age-28 seasons (he was still in the minors at age 24), he posted 3.2 and 2.9 fWAR. It's true that Abrams is a below-average fielder at SS, as Donovan likely would be if he had to play there every day. Donovan is versatile in the sense that he can play multiple positions competently, but he really isn't meaningfully above average at any of them. We don't really know whether Donovan is the "better defender" because Abrams has had to play a more demanding position full-time--it's comparing apples and oranges. We don't really know how Abrams would fare at 2B (or in the OF, for that matter), a less demanding defensive position where Donovan has played the biggest bulk of his innings and been basically average (1,756.2 IP, -5 DRS, 3 OAA, 1 FRV).
So if you have two 3-ish fWAR players--one who just turned 25 and has 3 years of control, and the other who just turned 29 and has 2 years of control--which do you think is likely to have more surplus value? FWIW, for all of the above reasons, Abrams unsurprisingly has a higher value on BTV:
Abrams: 52.9
Donovan: 30.7
What we do know is that Abrams has always been a SS and he’s not very good defensively. Value is in the eye of the beholder and admittedly Abrams is younger but his value is in his age and his age alone. In almost every baseball statistic Donovan outperforms Abrams.
Why do you think Washington is looking to move a 26 year old SS who has 3 years of control? Maybe they are looking to get their “haul” for him or maybe they realize they have to move on from him. We also don’t know how a 26 year old guy who has always been a SS is going to take being asked to switch to another position. His BTV is solely based on his age and not on his performance.
I personally don’t think that Donovan is an outfielder. I think his best spot is as an infielder, probably at 2B but he can also play 3B and is proficient enough in LF. I appreciate the conversation but Abrams just hasn’t met expectations. I guess we will see how this turns out.
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Talkin' Baseball
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
If they were looking at keeping/paying a player for the next 10 years the age difference would be significant. If we are just looking at the next 2-3 years, the age difference is not that significant. I wouldn't expect a player in their age 29-30 seasons to be in decline. If Donovan is better presently, the odds are good that he will remain better through the next couple seasons.
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NYCardsFan
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
Again, the primary driver of the difference in expected surplus value between Abrams and Donovan isn’t age per se, it’s the extra year of team control (3 years versus 2). And it’s not at all clear one is better than the other presently (3.1 fWAR and 2.9 fWAR are a push). Also, it’s worth noting that comparing them exclusively on OPS or OPS+ completely excludes/ignores Abrams’s baserunning RAA, which is significant and an important part of his game.
If you have two 3-WAR players, one with 3 years of control (through ages 25-27) and the other with 2, it stands to reason that the guy with 3 years of control will have more expected surplus value. It’s simply incorrect to say Abrams’s “value is in his age and his age alone” or that “his BTV is solely based on his age and not on his performance.”
If you have two 3-WAR players, one with 3 years of control (through ages 25-27) and the other with 2, it stands to reason that the guy with 3 years of control will have more expected surplus value. It’s simply incorrect to say Abrams’s “value is in his age and his age alone” or that “his BTV is solely based on his age and not on his performance.”
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NYCardsFan
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
The Nationals are getting Abrams’s ARB-2 season for $4.2mm—if he’s a 3 WAR player again, that extra year of control will be worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $20mm in added surplus value.NYCardsFan wrote: ↑26 Jan 2026 08:34 am Again, the primary driver of the difference in expected surplus value between Abrams and Donovan isn’t age per se, it’s the extra year of team control (3 years versus 2). And it’s not at all clear one is better than the other presently (3.1 fWAR and 2.9 fWAR are a push). Also, it’s worth noting that comparing them exclusively on OPS or OPS+ completely excludes/ignores Abrams’s baserunning RAA, which is significant and an important part of his game.
If you have two 3-WAR players, one with 3 years of control (through ages 25-27) and the other with 2, it stands to reason that the guy with 3 years of control will have more expected surplus value. It’s simply incorrect to say Abrams’s “value is in his age and his age alone” or that “his BTV is solely based on his age and not on his performance.”
Last edited by NYCardsFan on 26 Jan 2026 08:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Talkin' Baseball
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
I'm on board. The year of control is the difference, not the performance.NYCardsFan wrote: ↑26 Jan 2026 08:34 am Again, the primary driver of the difference in expected surplus value between Abrams and Donovan isn’t age per se, it’s the extra year of team control (3 years versus 2). And it’s not at all clear one is better than the other presently (3.1 fWAR and 2.9 fWAR are a push). Also, it’s worth noting that comparing them exclusively on OPS or OPS+ completely excludes/ignores Abrams’s baserunning RAA, which is significant and an important part of his game.
If you have two 3-WAR players, one with 3 years of control (through ages 25-27) and the other with 2, it stands to reason that the guy with 3 years of control will have more expected surplus value. It’s simply incorrect to say Abrams’s “value is in his age and his age alone” or that “his BTV is solely based on his age and not on his performance.”
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DwaininAztec
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Re: If Giants willing to put this guy in trade talks. Bloom may strike a deal
How about adding another name: Albert Pujolsramfandan wrote: ↑24 Jan 2026 07:07 am
yes, thank you ,12xu .
Since too long to type , I copied and pasted several major league stars who started as SS as teenagers who eventually moved to other positions in the majors :
(Note this is only some )
Here are major league stars who played shortstop as youngsters and later played other positions:
Hall of Famers & Legends
Robin Yount (SS to CF): Reached the majors at 18 as a shortstop, winning an MVP in 1982, before moving to center field in 1985 to prolong his career, winning another MVP there in 1989.
Paul Molitor (SS to 3B/2B/DH): Drafted as a shortstop and played there early, but transitioned to third base, second base, and eventually DH
George Brett (SS to 3B): Played shortstop in the minors before moving to third base in the majors.
Superstars & All-Stars
Alex Rodriguez (SS to 3B): Played shortstop with the Mariners and Rangers, but moved to third base upon joining the Yankees to accommodate Derek Jeter.
Fernando Tatis Jr. (SS to RF): Moved from shortstop to right field upon returning to the Padres, winning a Gold Glove in his first year at the new position.
Miguel Cabrera (SS to 3B/1B/LF): Played 168 games at shortstop as a teenager in the minors before moving to third base, left field, and eventually becoming a first baseman/DH.
Gary Sheffield (SS to 3B/OF): Played shortstop early in his career before moving to third base and eventually the outfield.
Robin Ventura (SS/3B to 1B): While primarily a third baseman, he was a shortstop early in his amateur career.