STLtoday.com

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:39 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:30 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 06:49 am I’ve seen enough of Gorman. I have not given up on Saggese.

Yep. Let Saggese have some runway.

But why Saggese over Fermin?

Fermin in 126 games at Memphis:
.305 AVG, .426 OBP, 146 wRC+ with 15 HR, 36 doubles, 38 SB, and a sterling 79:47 strikeout to walk ratio

That's what EARNING an opportunity looks like.

Fair question.

I will say Saggese was the AA League MVP, so it isn't like he hasn't earned a shot too. IMO, he was called up a bit too early from Memphis, but the Cards seem to have a problem with that. I think he is more ready this year.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:56 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:39 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:30 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 06:49 am I’ve seen enough of Gorman. I have not given up on Saggese.

Yep. Let Saggese have some runway.

But why Saggese over Fermin?

Fermin in 126 games at Memphis:
.305 AVG, .426 OBP, 146 wRC+ with 15 HR, 36 doubles, 38 SB, and a sterling 79:47 strikeout to walk ratio

That's what EARNING an opportunity looks like.

Fair question.

I will say Saggese was the AA League MVP, so it isn't like he hasn't earned a shot too. IMO, he was called up a bit too early from Memphis, but the Cards seem to have a problem with that. I think he is more ready this year.

I think Bloom & Cerfolio will correct the early call-up problem that persisted with Mozeliak. They better know what to look for when gauging player readiness. Mozeliak basically looked at prospect rankings over process and performance.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:10 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:56 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:39 am

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:30 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 06:49 am I’ve seen enough of Gorman. I have not given up on Saggese.

Yep. Let Saggese have some runway.

But why Saggese over Fermin?

Fermin in 126 games at Memphis:
.305 AVG, .426 OBP, 146 wRC+ with 15 HR, 36 doubles, 38 SB, and a sterling 79:47 strikeout to walk ratio

That's what EARNING an opportunity looks like.

Fair question.

I will say Saggese was the AA League MVP, so it isn't like he hasn't earned a shot too. IMO, he was called up a bit too early from Memphis, but the Cards seem to have a problem with that. I think he is more ready this year.

I think Bloom & Cerfolio will correct the early call-up problem that persisted with Mozeliak. They better know what to look for when gauging player readiness. Mozeliak basically looked at prospect rankings over process and performance.

I think they will also correct the problem of falling in love with one player, while looking at the other as an afterthought.

In essence, I think Fermin will start ST on the same ‘level’ as TS.

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

No, it's not a platoon.

JJW is going to be F-T at 2nd Base, once NADO is dealt Gorman F-T (until he losses it) at 3rd Base.

Saggese is J.A.G., not even close to being the hitter Donny is.

"But it's pretty clear they're going to give Gorman (and J. Walker) starting positions and they either sink or swim.

Not what me (or likely you) want but it does seem to be the 2026 plan."

A failed plan based upon history. The good ol ..... doing the same thing over and over and expecting........

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 07:38 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 07:33 am

Cardinals1964 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 04:59 am I’m not excited at all about Saggese.

I’m a lot more excited over Saggese than I am Gorman who IMO has shown us what he is.

I hope I’m wrong but Gorman just looked helpless for huge stretches the last 2 years. And his defense has been bad, no other way to spin it.

I’d agree. Horrible defense for a team breaking in young staff. Pitchers thrive on stud defense. Falter under the load of additional base runners then additional pitches, then third time thru.

All gets pushed forward with an error.

well said sikeston, IMO

82birds wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:49 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 07:38 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 07:33 am

Cardinals1964 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 04:59 am I’m not excited at all about Saggese.

I’m a lot more excited over Saggese than I am Gorman who IMO has shown us what he is.

I hope I’m wrong but Gorman just looked helpless for huge stretches the last 2 years. And his defense has been bad, no other way to spin it.

I’d agree. Horrible defense for a team breaking in young staff. Pitchers thrive on stud defense. Falter under the load of additional base runners then additional pitches, then third time thru.

All gets pushed forward with an error.

well said sikeston, IMO

Thanx. It’s all about the pitching. It’s then all about strategy/ no runners on base-hold runners closer- no walks.

In today’s game, the dreaded pitch count and third time thru strategy will limit the depth starters go into games. An error just exaggerates that thought. Pitchers know it.

ilcubuffs wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:48 am "But it's pretty clear they're going to give Gorman (and J. Walker) starting positions and they either sink or swim.

Not what me (or likely you) want but it does seem to be the 2026 plan."

A failed plan based upon history. The good ol ..... doing the same thing over and over and expecting........

I do think that Bloom will want an evaluation period for both players coming off of their new offseason development plans to see if they can make strides… and they should do that based on their skill sets and pedigree.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:48 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

No, it's not a platoon.

JJW is going to be F-T at 2nd Base, once NADO is dealt Gorman F-T (until he losses it) at 3rd Base.

Saggese is J.A.G., not even close to being the hitter Donny is.

Former Texas League MVP (2023) Saggese
Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 45

MLB Super Utility Player Donovan
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 45 | Run: 45 | Arm: 45 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

It’s a lot closer than you think.

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 11:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:48 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

No, it's not a platoon.

JJW is going to be F-T at 2nd Base, once NADO is dealt Gorman F-T (until he losses it) at 3rd Base.

Saggese is J.A.G., not even close to being the hitter Donny is.

Former Texas League MVP (2023) Saggese
Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 45

MLB Super Utility Player Donovan
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 45 | Run: 45 | Arm: 45 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

It’s a lot closer than you think.

Maybe. I like the grading tools they use. It's helpful to see what could develop when people like me don't have more information. At the end of the day though, they are just a projection tool based on what they have done against weaker competition than they will face going forward, and whatever projection "experts" can add to that. There is much variation in how players respond to stiffer competition. Donovan has played out to nearly a best case scenario. Saggese, we'll see.

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 11:07 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:48 am

BleedingBleu wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 10:09 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 09:02 am Saggese isn't going to be at 2nd base or platooning w/Gorman, he's nothing more than a back of the bench player.

Saggese is J.A.G.

JJW is going to be at 2nd base, Gorman at 3rd base.

That’s kind of what a platoon is, isn’t it?

I could see him being a RHH Donnie

No, it's not a platoon.

JJW is going to be F-T at 2nd Base, once NADO is dealt Gorman F-T (until he losses it) at 3rd Base.

Saggese is J.A.G., not even close to being the hitter Donny is.

Former Texas League MVP (2023) Saggese
Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 50 | Field: 50 | Overall: 45

MLB Super Utility Player Donovan
Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 45 | Run: 45 | Arm: 45 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

It’s a lot closer than you think.

Scouting grades vs Actual Major league Stats?

Donny career:
.282 .361 .411 .772
117 OPS+
+
Gold Glove
All-Star

Saggese career (acknowledged SSS):
.250 .292 .336 .628
78 OPS+

Not even close, Saggese isn't in Donny's class as a player.

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

I'd give Saggese the job. Excited? No. In a rebuild he makes more sense than Gorman. Saggese had better power numbers than Wetherholt in milb.

Infield is Saggese, Winn, Wetherholt, Burleson.

Interesting that folks are already giving up on Saggese and ranking Fermin above him. I'm not saying that won't be true in the end but curious why?

Fermin is 26 with a career minors stat line of 267/365/396 762 OPS. Has had 180 major league ABs with a 70 OPS+

Saggese is 23 with 258/358/485 842 OPS. With 324 major league ABs and a 77 OPS+

I for one haven't written Saggese off. He is at the age where there might be significantly more in the tank. Fermin seems to have shown his peak. I don't know. Saggese is one of the players I am hoping takes a step up in 2026 pressing for playing time and if Gorman sucks again takes 3B.

rage-STL wrote: ↑27 Dec 2025 23:33 pm Nolan Gorman: 20 HR, 15 2B

Thomas Saggese: 10 HR, 20 2B

Anyone else excited about the potential between these two at 3B/2B?

Not particularly

Cardinals1964 wrote: ↑28 Dec 2025 04:59 am I’m not excited at all about Saggese.

I’m not excited at all about Gormy.