STLtoday.com

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.

Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?

They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 13:17 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.

Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?

They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Sonny gray had a 4.28 ERA that’s not super impossible to replace or for a starter to produce near it where the team will improve will be upgrading on pallante mikolas and Fedde who were disasters this won’t be hard with all of the starters he has brought in and will bring in and if any of them are sucking he will replace them because he actually has the depth to do so. Even if they trade Donovan JJ should be able to replace his 50 RBI and 64 runs and could do even better. I don’t see bloom sticking with Gorman all season once he shows he still sucks and if Gorman and walker aren’t total disasters like last season the offense will be improved. Bloom will be bringing in at least one bat probably two bats Contreras hit 20 home runs and drove in 80 that’s not impossible to replace. People act like they are trading superstars they aren’t they are trading mid players who won’t be that difficult to replace and others who are very easy to not only replace but upgrade a lot from

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 13:17 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.

Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?

They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Sonny gray had a 4.28 ERA that’s not super impossible to replace or for a starter to produce near it where the team will improve will be upgrading on pallante mikolas and Fedde who were disasters this won’t be hard with all of the starters he has brought in and will bring in and if any of them are sucking he will replace them because he actually has the depth to do so. Even if they trade Donovan JJ should be able to replace his 50 RBI and 64 runs and could do even better. I don’t see bloom sticking with Gorman all season once he shows he still sucks and if Gorman and walker aren’t total disasters like last season the offense will be improved. Bloom will be bringing in at least one bat probably two bats Contreras hit 20 home runs and drove in 80 that’s not impossible to replace. People act like they are trading superstars they aren’t they are trading mid players who won’t be that difficult to replace and others who are very easy to not only replace but upgrade a lot from

What depth?

Contreras wasn't a "superstar" but he was arguably the best run producer we had and you still have to replace Gray's innings. These two won't be an easy upgrade, and we don't know what Wetherholts going to be in year one.

You're making a lot of assumptions and few if any of those is going to come to fruition.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:54 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 13:17 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.

Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?

They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Sonny gray had a 4.28 ERA that’s not super impossible to replace or for a starter to produce near it where the team will improve will be upgrading on pallante mikolas and Fedde who were disasters this won’t be hard with all of the starters he has brought in and will bring in and if any of them are sucking he will replace them because he actually has the depth to do so. Even if they trade Donovan JJ should be able to replace his 50 RBI and 64 runs and could do even better. I don’t see bloom sticking with Gorman all season once he shows he still sucks and if Gorman and walker aren’t total disasters like last season the offense will be improved. Bloom will be bringing in at least one bat probably two bats Contreras hit 20 home runs and drove in 80 that’s not impossible to replace. People act like they are trading superstars they aren’t they are trading mid players who won’t be that difficult to replace and others who are very easy to not only replace but upgrade a lot from

What depth?

Contreras wasn't a "superstar" but he was arguably the best run producer we had and you still have to replace Gray's innings. These two won't be an easy upgrade, and we don't know what Wetherholts going to be in year one.

You're making a lot of assumptions and few if any of those is going to come to fruition.

They have may liebratore McGreevy pallante lehay Matthew’s Hansen fitts dobbins Henderson mautz all battling for rotation spots with the rest at Memphis ready to be called up that’s 11 starters and he said he’s looking at bringing in another veteran starter also. It’s hilarious people act like the cardinals are breaking up a dynasty by trading two mid players and making a lot of assumptions that everything is going to go wrong and nothing or very few things will go right.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:07 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:54 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 13:17 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.

Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?

They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Sonny gray had a 4.28 ERA that’s not super impossible to replace or for a starter to produce near it where the team will improve will be upgrading on pallante mikolas and Fedde who were disasters this won’t be hard with all of the starters he has brought in and will bring in and if any of them are sucking he will replace them because he actually has the depth to do so. Even if they trade Donovan JJ should be able to replace his 50 RBI and 64 runs and could do even better. I don’t see bloom sticking with Gorman all season once he shows he still sucks and if Gorman and walker aren’t total disasters like last season the offense will be improved. Bloom will be bringing in at least one bat probably two bats Contreras hit 20 home runs and drove in 80 that’s not impossible to replace. People act like they are trading superstars they aren’t they are trading mid players who won’t be that difficult to replace and others who are very easy to not only replace but upgrade a lot from

What depth?

Contreras wasn't a "superstar" but he was arguably the best run producer we had and you still have to replace Gray's innings. These two won't be an easy upgrade, and we don't know what Wetherholts going to be in year one.

You're making a lot of assumptions and few if any of those is going to come to fruition.

They have may liebratore McGreevy pallante lehay Matthew’s Hansen fitts dobbins Henderson mautz all battling for rotation spots with the rest at Memphis ready to be called up that’s 11 starters and he said he’s looking at bringing in another veteran starter also. It’s hilarious people act like the cardinals are breaking up a dynasty by trading two mid players and making a lot of assumptions that everything is going to go wrong and nothing or very few things will go right.

What's hilarious is listening to people who get all bent out of shape because somebody has a different slant on this.

Gray and Contreras are more productive than their replacements are going to be.

The other thing is you make the same mistake a lot of people here do by mistaking numbers for depth. That's what happened last year remember?

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:31 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:07 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:54 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 13:17 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.

Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?

They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Sonny gray had a 4.28 ERA that’s not super impossible to replace or for a starter to produce near it where the team will improve will be upgrading on pallante mikolas and Fedde who were disasters this won’t be hard with all of the starters he has brought in and will bring in and if any of them are sucking he will replace them because he actually has the depth to do so. Even if they trade Donovan JJ should be able to replace his 50 RBI and 64 runs and could do even better. I don’t see bloom sticking with Gorman all season once he shows he still sucks and if Gorman and walker aren’t total disasters like last season the offense will be improved. Bloom will be bringing in at least one bat probably two bats Contreras hit 20 home runs and drove in 80 that’s not impossible to replace. People act like they are trading superstars they aren’t they are trading mid players who won’t be that difficult to replace and others who are very easy to not only replace but upgrade a lot from

What depth?

Contreras wasn't a "superstar" but he was arguably the best run producer we had and you still have to replace Gray's innings. These two won't be an easy upgrade, and we don't know what Wetherholts going to be in year one.

You're making a lot of assumptions and few if any of those is going to come to fruition.

They have may liebratore McGreevy pallante lehay Matthew’s Hansen fitts dobbins Henderson mautz all battling for rotation spots with the rest at Memphis ready to be called up that’s 11 starters and he said he’s looking at bringing in another veteran starter also. It’s hilarious people act like the cardinals are breaking up a dynasty by trading two mid players and making a lot of assumptions that everything is going to go wrong and nothing or very few things will go right.

What's hilarious is listening to people who get all bent out of shape because somebody has a different slant on this.

Gray and Contreras are more productive than their replacements are going to be.

The other thing is you make the same mistake a lot of people here do by mistaking numbers for depth. That's what happened last year remember?

lol what depth did they have last season? They had 5 starters for 5 spots and mcgreevy was the only real depth they had in the minors they have 11 starters and are still going to bring in more this offseason. The reason they couldn’t dump Fedde mikolas and pallante is because they had no depth I don’t get where people think they had depth last season

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 13:38 pm

zuck698 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 13:00 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 12:56 pm

jccarlson wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 12:55 pm The pirates are definitely making better deals than we are. With our "someday in the future" approach, how many years will the Bucs be ahead of us in the final standings of the year?

To be fair, they HAVE to spend now while they have Skenes on the cheap. Their window is very narrow.

This. Their chips all have to be pushed in the pot now. Whatever they do, it will be over by the end of 28 when Paul is free. He may be too expensive for them before that.

Skenes needs to be the big piece we look to add in a couple of years.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:31 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:07 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:54 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 13:17 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.

Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?

They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Sonny gray had a 4.28 ERA that’s not super impossible to replace or for a starter to produce near it where the team will improve will be upgrading on pallante mikolas and Fedde who were disasters this won’t be hard with all of the starters he has brought in and will bring in and if any of them are sucking he will replace them because he actually has the depth to do so. Even if they trade Donovan JJ should be able to replace his 50 RBI and 64 runs and could do even better. I don’t see bloom sticking with Gorman all season once he shows he still sucks and if Gorman and walker aren’t total disasters like last season the offense will be improved. Bloom will be bringing in at least one bat probably two bats Contreras hit 20 home runs and drove in 80 that’s not impossible to replace. People act like they are trading superstars they aren’t they are trading mid players who won’t be that difficult to replace and others who are very easy to not only replace but upgrade a lot from

What depth?

Contreras wasn't a "superstar" but he was arguably the best run producer we had and you still have to replace Gray's innings. These two won't be an easy upgrade, and we don't know what Wetherholts going to be in year one.

You're making a lot of assumptions and few if any of those is going to come to fruition.

They have may liebratore McGreevy pallante lehay Matthew’s Hansen fitts dobbins Henderson mautz all battling for rotation spots with the rest at Memphis ready to be called up that’s 11 starters and he said he’s looking at bringing in another veteran starter also. It’s hilarious people act like the cardinals are breaking up a dynasty by trading two mid players and making a lot of assumptions that everything is going to go wrong and nothing or very few things will go right.

What's hilarious is listening to people who get all bent out of shape because somebody has a different slant on this.

Gray and Contreras are more productive than their replacements are going to be.

The other thing is you make the same mistake a lot of people here do by mistaking numbers for depth. That's what happened last year remember?

lol what depth did they have last season? They had 5 starters for 5 spots and mcgreevy was the only real depth they had in the minors they have 11 starters and are still going to bring in more this offseason. The reason they couldn’t dump Fedde mikolas and pallante is because they had no depth I don’t get where people think they had depth last season

A lot of people here sure thought so just like they did the year before a d the year before that ad nauseum.

So how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?

An Old Friend wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 22:09 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?

It’s not a rebuild.

I wish people would understand this.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 22:09 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?

It’s not a rebuild.

I wish people would understand this.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:55 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:31 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:07 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:54 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 13:17 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Sonny gray had a 4.28 ERA that’s not super impossible to replace or for a starter to produce near it where the team will improve will be upgrading on pallante mikolas and Fedde who were disasters this won’t be hard with all of the starters he has brought in and will bring in and if any of them are sucking he will replace them because he actually has the depth to do so. Even if they trade Donovan JJ should be able to replace his 50 RBI and 64 runs and could do even better. I don’t see bloom sticking with Gorman all season once he shows he still sucks and if Gorman and walker aren’t total disasters like last season the offense will be improved. Bloom will be bringing in at least one bat probably two bats Contreras hit 20 home runs and drove in 80 that’s not impossible to replace. People act like they are trading superstars they aren’t they are trading mid players who won’t be that difficult to replace and others who are very easy to not only replace but upgrade a lot from

What depth?

Contreras wasn't a "superstar" but he was arguably the best run producer we had and you still have to replace Gray's innings. These two won't be an easy upgrade, and we don't know what Wetherholts going to be in year one.

You're making a lot of assumptions and few if any of those is going to come to fruition.

They have may liebratore McGreevy pallante lehay Matthew’s Hansen fitts dobbins Henderson mautz all battling for rotation spots with the rest at Memphis ready to be called up that’s 11 starters and he said he’s looking at bringing in another veteran starter also. It’s hilarious people act like the cardinals are breaking up a dynasty by trading two mid players and making a lot of assumptions that everything is going to go wrong and nothing or very few things will go right.

What's hilarious is listening to people who get all bent out of shape because somebody has a different slant on this.

Gray and Contreras are more productive than their replacements are going to be.

The other thing is you make the same mistake a lot of people here do by mistaking numbers for depth. That's what happened last year remember?

lol what depth did they have last season? They had 5 starters for 5 spots and mcgreevy was the only real depth they had in the minors they have 11 starters and are still going to bring in more this offseason. The reason they couldn’t dump Fedde mikolas and pallante is because they had no depth I don’t get where people think they had depth last season

A lot of people here sure thought so just like they did the year before a d the year before that ad nauseum.

So how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?

Well those on here who thought 6 starters equals depth last season were laughably wrong and as I said the rotation will be better because they won’t be stuck running the same pitchers out start after start after start. He’s going to bring in more starters including another veteran starter if any pitchers are sucking he has the depth to replace them unlike last season

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:49 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 13:38 pm

zuck698 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 13:00 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 12:56 pm

jccarlson wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 12:55 pm The pirates are definitely making better deals than we are. With our "someday in the future" approach, how many years will the Bucs be ahead of us in the final standings of the year?

To be fair, they HAVE to spend now while they have Skenes on the cheap. Their window is very narrow.

This. Their chips all have to be pushed in the pot now. Whatever they do, it will be over by the end of 28 when Paul is free. He may be too expensive for them before that.

Skenes needs to be the big piece we look to add in a couple of years.

I don't think he is ever going to be on our radar.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:31 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:07 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:54 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 13:17 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.

Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?

They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Sonny gray had a 4.28 ERA that’s not super impossible to replace or for a starter to produce near it where the team will improve will be upgrading on pallante mikolas and Fedde who were disasters this won’t be hard with all of the starters he has brought in and will bring in and if any of them are sucking he will replace them because he actually has the depth to do so. Even if they trade Donovan JJ should be able to replace his 50 RBI and 64 runs and could do even better. I don’t see bloom sticking with Gorman all season once he shows he still sucks and if Gorman and walker aren’t total disasters like last season the offense will be improved. Bloom will be bringing in at least one bat probably two bats Contreras hit 20 home runs and drove in 80 that’s not impossible to replace. People act like they are trading superstars they aren’t they are trading mid players who won’t be that difficult to replace and others who are very easy to not only replace but upgrade a lot from

What depth?

Contreras wasn't a "superstar" but he was arguably the best run producer we had and you still have to replace Gray's innings. These two won't be an easy upgrade, and we don't know what Wetherholts going to be in year one.

You're making a lot of assumptions and few if any of those is going to come to fruition.

They have may liebratore McGreevy pallante lehay Matthew’s Hansen fitts dobbins Henderson mautz all battling for rotation spots with the rest at Memphis ready to be called up that’s 11 starters and he said he’s looking at bringing in another veteran starter also. It’s hilarious people act like the cardinals are breaking up a dynasty by trading two mid players and making a lot of assumptions that everything is going to go wrong and nothing or very few things will go right.

What's hilarious is listening to people who get all bent out of shape because somebody has a different slant on this.

Gray and Contreras are more productive than their replacements are going to be.

The other thing is you make the same mistake a lot of people here do by mistaking numbers for depth. That's what happened last year remember?

lol what depth did they have last season? They had 5 starters for 5 spots and mcgreevy was the only real depth they had in the minors they have 11 starters and are still going to bring in more this offseason. The reason they couldn’t dump Fedde mikolas and pallante is because they had no depth I don’t get where people think they had depth last season

ecleme22 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 22:13 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 22:09 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 21:24 pmSo how does a team in a total rebuild be better this year than last year?

It’s not a rebuild.

I wish people would understand this.

It’s because you have no proof.

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 23:04 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:31 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 18:07 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:54 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 15:38 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 13:17 pm

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 12:58 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 10:33 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑25 Dec 2025 01:01 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:44 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 21:23 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 15:16 pm The Pirates won 71 games last year, and maybe should have won ~73. They added maybe 3-4 wins in with their FA signings, so are looking at 76-77 wins.

Where are the other 12+ wins coming from that they need to get to the upper 80s?

They are going to need a lot out of Chandler, Ashcraft, etc. in the rotation and a lot more out of Cruz, Reynolds, etc. offensively.

Pirates will be better.

How better? Not sure. Sometimes you can’t just add up WAR.

But we’ll see if they take over STL

They won’t be better guaranteed. People knee jerk and freak out over the silliest early offseason moves. Cards are going to be much better than people think and they will say oh I didn’t think they would be good I’m happily eating crow even though they whined and cried the entire off season and were raging and bawling it will be hilarious to see all the crow eating

You're going to be wrong.

Nah I won’t be wrong

Im sure some more moves are coming but Gray is gone and so is Contreras .

No objection to them being moved but you still have to put a team on the field.

The Pirates are moving forward tge Cardinals will be stuck in second gear for some time.

Sonny gray had a 4.28 ERA that’s not super impossible to replace or for a starter to produce near it where the team will improve will be upgrading on pallante mikolas and Fedde who were disasters this won’t be hard with all of the starters he has brought in and will bring in and if any of them are sucking he will replace them because he actually has the depth to do so. Even if they trade Donovan JJ should be able to replace his 50 RBI and 64 runs and could do even better. I don’t see bloom sticking with Gorman all season once he shows he still sucks and if Gorman and walker aren’t total disasters like last season the offense will be improved. Bloom will be bringing in at least one bat probably two bats Contreras hit 20 home runs and drove in 80 that’s not impossible to replace. People act like they are trading superstars they aren’t they are trading mid players who won’t be that difficult to replace and others who are very easy to not only replace but upgrade a lot from

What depth?

Contreras wasn't a "superstar" but he was arguably the best run producer we had and you still have to replace Gray's innings. These two won't be an easy upgrade, and we don't know what Wetherholts going to be in year one.

You're making a lot of assumptions and few if any of those is going to come to fruition.

They have may liebratore McGreevy pallante lehay Matthew’s Hansen fitts dobbins Henderson mautz all battling for rotation spots with the rest at Memphis ready to be called up that’s 11 starters and he said he’s looking at bringing in another veteran starter also. It’s hilarious people act like the cardinals are breaking up a dynasty by trading two mid players and making a lot of assumptions that everything is going to go wrong and nothing or very few things will go right.

What's hilarious is listening to people who get all bent out of shape because somebody has a different slant on this.

Gray and Contreras are more productive than their replacements are going to be.

The other thing is you make the same mistake a lot of people here do by mistaking numbers for depth. That's what happened last year remember?

lol what depth did they have last season? They had 5 starters for 5 spots and mcgreevy was the only real depth they had in the minors they have 11 starters and are still going to bring in more this offseason. The reason they couldn’t dump Fedde mikolas and pallante is because they had no depth I don’t get where people think they had depth last season

No no that's not what the well wishers said.

They mentioned Roberse, Graceffo , Roby, Rom etc.

Yeah crazy isnt it?