STLtoday.com

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:56 am

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:24 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:58 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 21:14 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 20:48 pm Though I did not hear Oli's reply , the first report I read said that after making the comment Oli immediately laughed. Therefore, he was making a humorous retort to the question.
So he was using humor and some took it as a serious reply to the question. One must always consider any words in the context of the moment.

Some would characterize his reply as self-depricating humor.

He has a great personality. I think he'd be an awesome guy to get a beer with. That's part of the reason I don't like him as a manager. He's too much cheerleader, not enough commander-in-chief.

He laughed at it, but didn't laugh at it as though "How ridiculous is that? It was more of a "What else can I do but laugh?" He took it seriously saying "That's what happens when you sit in the manager's chair and that's fine because that's where I want to be."

Again, more commander, less cheerleader-I'm-your-buddy and he could be serviceable. But he also has too many other bad strategies he consistenly employs.

In the military we had this saying- if your liked your not respected; if your respected, who cares if your liked.

I have managed thousands of employees over the years.
My job was to help every one of them succeed.
I treated everyone exactly the same (something The Marmot has never figured out).
Funny thing.
I have been fortunate enough to enjoy many, many successes over the decades and only a few disappointments - and I can count the complaints from others on one hand.
Which is something else The Marmot has never figured out - and likely never will.
The best way to limit criticism is by producing success.

I would suggest that for the past 2 seasons the Cardinals victory totals have been toward the top end of their range of outcomes. With the rosters provided, do you think many more wins were possible?

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:56 am

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:24 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:58 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 21:14 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 20:48 pm Though I did not hear Oli's reply , the first report I read said that after making the comment Oli immediately laughed. Therefore, he was making a humorous retort to the question.
So he was using humor and some took it as a serious reply to the question. One must always consider any words in the context of the moment.

Some would characterize his reply as self-depricating humor.

He has a great personality. I think he'd be an awesome guy to get a beer with. That's part of the reason I don't like him as a manager. He's too much cheerleader, not enough commander-in-chief.

He laughed at it, but didn't laugh at it as though "How ridiculous is that? It was more of a "What else can I do but laugh?" He took it seriously saying "That's what happens when you sit in the manager's chair and that's fine because that's where I want to be."

Again, more commander, less cheerleader-I'm-your-buddy and he could be serviceable. But he also has too many other bad strategies he consistenly employs.

In the military we had this saying- if your liked your not respected; if your respected, who cares if your liked.

I have managed thousands of employees over the years.
My job was to help everyone one of them succeed.
I treated everyone exactly the same (something The Marmot has never figured out).
Funny thing.
I have been fortunate enough to enjoy many, many successes over the decades and only a few disappointments - and I can count the complaints from others on one hand.
Which is something else The Marmot has never figured out - and likely never will.
The best way to limit criticism is by producing success.

I would suggest that for the past 2 seasons the Cardinals victory totals have been toward the top end of their range of outcomes. With the rosters provided, do you think many more wins were possible?

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:00 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:56 am

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:24 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:58 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 21:14 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 20:48 pm Though I did not hear Oli's reply , the first report I read said that after making the comment Oli immediately laughed. Therefore, he was making a humorous retort to the question.
So he was using humor and some took it as a serious reply to the question. One must always consider any words in the context of the moment.

Some would characterize his reply as self-depricating humor.

He has a great personality. I think he'd be an awesome guy to get a beer with. That's part of the reason I don't like him as a manager. He's too much cheerleader, not enough commander-in-chief.

He laughed at it, but didn't laugh at it as though "How ridiculous is that? It was more of a "What else can I do but laugh?" He took it seriously saying "That's what happens when you sit in the manager's chair and that's fine because that's where I want to be."

Again, more commander, less cheerleader-I'm-your-buddy and he could be serviceable. But he also has too many other bad strategies he consistenly employs.

In the military we had this saying- if your liked your not respected; if your respected, who cares if your liked.

I have managed thousands of employees over the years.
My job was to help every one of them succeed.
I treated everyone exactly the same (something The Marmot has never figured out).
Funny thing.
I have been fortunate enough to enjoy many, many successes over the decades and only a few disappointments - and I can count the complaints from others on one hand.
Which is something else The Marmot has never figured out - and likely never will.
The best way to limit criticism is by producing success.

I would suggest that for the past 2 seasons the Cardinals victory totals have been toward the top end of their range of outcomes. With the rosters provided, do you think many more wins were possible?

Unquestionably.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:06 am

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:00 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:56 am

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:24 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:58 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 21:14 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 20:48 pm Though I did not hear Oli's reply , the first report I read said that after making the comment Oli immediately laughed. Therefore, he was making a humorous retort to the question.
So he was using humor and some took it as a serious reply to the question. One must always consider any words in the context of the moment.

Some would characterize his reply as self-depricating humor.

He has a great personality. I think he'd be an awesome guy to get a beer with. That's part of the reason I don't like him as a manager. He's too much cheerleader, not enough commander-in-chief.

He laughed at it, but didn't laugh at it as though "How ridiculous is that? It was more of a "What else can I do but laugh?" He took it seriously saying "That's what happens when you sit in the manager's chair and that's fine because that's where I want to be."

Again, more commander, less cheerleader-I'm-your-buddy and he could be serviceable. But he also has too many other bad strategies he consistenly employs.

In the military we had this saying- if your liked your not respected; if your respected, who cares if your liked.

I have managed thousands of employees over the years.
My job was to help every one of them succeed.
I treated everyone exactly the same (something The Marmot has never figured out).
Funny thing.
I have been fortunate enough to enjoy many, many successes over the decades and only a few disappointments - and I can count the complaints from others on one hand.
Which is something else The Marmot has never figured out - and likely never will.
The best way to limit criticism is by producing success.

I would suggest that for the past 2 seasons the Cardinals victory totals have been toward the top end of their range of outcomes. With the rosters provided, do you think many more wins were possible?

Unquestionably.

I'm questioning it. What do you think was possible?

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:03 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:56 am

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:24 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:58 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 21:14 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 20:48 pm Though I did not hear Oli's reply , the first report I read said that after making the comment Oli immediately laughed. Therefore, he was making a humorous retort to the question.
So he was using humor and some took it as a serious reply to the question. One must always consider any words in the context of the moment.

Some would characterize his reply as self-depricating humor.

He has a great personality. I think he'd be an awesome guy to get a beer with. That's part of the reason I don't like him as a manager. He's too much cheerleader, not enough commander-in-chief.

He laughed at it, but didn't laugh at it as though "How ridiculous is that? It was more of a "What else can I do but laugh?" He took it seriously saying "That's what happens when you sit in the manager's chair and that's fine because that's where I want to be."

Again, more commander, less cheerleader-I'm-your-buddy and he could be serviceable. But he also has too many other bad strategies he consistenly employs.

In the military we had this saying- if your liked your not respected; if your respected, who cares if your liked.

I have managed thousands of employees over the years.
My job was to help everyone one of them succeed.
I treated everyone exactly the same (something The Marmot has never figured out).
Funny thing.
I have been fortunate enough to enjoy many, many successes over the decades and only a few disappointments - and I can count the complaints from others on one hand.
Which is something else The Marmot has never figured out - and likely never will.
The best way to limit criticism is by producing success.

I would suggest that for the past 2 seasons the Cardinals victory totals have been toward the top end of their range of outcomes. With the rosters provided, do you think many more wins were possible?

Probably not (on more wins). It's why I'm mostly indifferent on him, except I don't like how he touts every loss as a learning opportunity. I'd like to see a little more stern leadership from him and let the young guys know that playing losing baseball from boneheaded play won't be tolerated.

Maybe he's doing it behind the scenes. I hope so anyway. At the end of the day, it's easy to recognize the guy has not had much on the roster. When he did, he won the division, but flubbed the playoff series. If Mo had added a little to that team then maybe the margin for error wouldn't have been razor thin. I don't think he should be extended yet though, like the players, he should earn it.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:09 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:03 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:56 am

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:24 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:58 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 21:14 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 20:48 pm Though I did not hear Oli's reply , the first report I read said that after making the comment Oli immediately laughed. Therefore, he was making a humorous retort to the question.
So he was using humor and some took it as a serious reply to the question. One must always consider any words in the context of the moment.

Some would characterize his reply as self-depricating humor.

He has a great personality. I think he'd be an awesome guy to get a beer with. That's part of the reason I don't like him as a manager. He's too much cheerleader, not enough commander-in-chief.

He laughed at it, but didn't laugh at it as though "How ridiculous is that? It was more of a "What else can I do but laugh?" He took it seriously saying "That's what happens when you sit in the manager's chair and that's fine because that's where I want to be."

Again, more commander, less cheerleader-I'm-your-buddy and he could be serviceable. But he also has too many other bad strategies he consistenly employs.

In the military we had this saying- if your liked your not respected; if your respected, who cares if your liked.

I have managed thousands of employees over the years.
My job was to help everyone one of them succeed.
I treated everyone exactly the same (something The Marmot has never figured out).
Funny thing.
I have been fortunate enough to enjoy many, many successes over the decades and only a few disappointments - and I can count the complaints from others on one hand.
Which is something else The Marmot has never figured out - and likely never will.
The best way to limit criticism is by producing success.

I would suggest that for the past 2 seasons the Cardinals victory totals have been toward the top end of their range of outcomes. With the rosters provided, do you think many more wins were possible?

Probably not (on more wins). It's why I'm mostly indifferent on him, except I don't like how he touts every loss as a learning opportunity. I'd like to see a little more stern leadership from him and let the young guys know that playing losing baseball from boneheaded play won't be tolerated.

Maybe he's doing it behind the scenes. I hope so anyway. At the end of the day, it's easy to recognize the guy has not had much on the roster. When he did, he won the division, but flubbed the playoff series. If Mo had added a little to that team then maybe the margin for error wouldn't have been razor thin. I don't think he should be extended yet though, like the players, he should earn it.

Yeah. It's the spin that is distasteful. In fairness though, what do I expect him to say? "I did the best job I could with the roster I have, and the players played their butts off, but my boss just didn't do a very good job at his job". No, so we get "a learning opportunity".

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:08 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:06 am

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:00 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:56 am

Melville wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:24 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:58 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 21:14 pm

ramfandan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 20:48 pm Though I did not hear Oli's reply , the first report I read said that after making the comment Oli immediately laughed. Therefore, he was making a humorous retort to the question.
So he was using humor and some took it as a serious reply to the question. One must always consider any words in the context of the moment.

Some would characterize his reply as self-depricating humor.

He has a great personality. I think he'd be an awesome guy to get a beer with. That's part of the reason I don't like him as a manager. He's too much cheerleader, not enough commander-in-chief.

He laughed at it, but didn't laugh at it as though "How ridiculous is that? It was more of a "What else can I do but laugh?" He took it seriously saying "That's what happens when you sit in the manager's chair and that's fine because that's where I want to be."

Again, more commander, less cheerleader-I'm-your-buddy and he could be serviceable. But he also has too many other bad strategies he consistenly employs.

In the military we had this saying- if your liked your not respected; if your respected, who cares if your liked.

I have managed thousands of employees over the years.
My job was to help every one of them succeed.
I treated everyone exactly the same (something The Marmot has never figured out).
Funny thing.
I have been fortunate enough to enjoy many, many successes over the decades and only a few disappointments - and I can count the complaints from others on one hand.
Which is something else The Marmot has never figured out - and likely never will.
The best way to limit criticism is by producing success.

I would suggest that for the past 2 seasons the Cardinals victory totals have been toward the top end of their range of outcomes. With the rosters provided, do you think many more wins were possible?

Unquestionably.

I'm questioning it. What do you think was possible?

More wins.
The team collapsed badly each of the past 2 seasons.
Both years they had a winning record in July and controlled their own destiny to grab a W/C spot.
Both times they imploded under pressure.
100% on The Marmot's lack of leadership skills.

ramfandan wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:18 am In those past two years, I remember the Cardinals front office trading away some of the veteran personnel Oli had the first 4 months. So the manager did not have the same roster as the first four months . That was on the POBO GM to trade away some veterans not the manager.

ramfandan wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 07:30 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:37 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pm Monday (yesterday) afternoon, the Fastlane interviewed Oli Marmol. They asked him, "Now that you're entering your 5th year, what's the main thing you thought you knew during your first season, but you realize now you actually had no clue about it back then?"

Oli's response:

"I had no idea I would be hated this much."

He was able to laugh it off and followed up by saying it's okay because being in the big chair means ultimately every decision ends with you and that's what he says he wants.

Personally, I feel if you truly hate a sports player/coach you're trying to fill some other void in your life with sports. Actually hating a person in sports makes you one of those cukoo for cocoa puffs fans.

I think he seems like a great guy but loathe him as a manager due to his unapologetic demeanor and the fact he repeats the same mistakes over and over again. I've still never heard him admit that Game 1 against the Phils in 2022 was a mistake. He doesn't need to slap his forehead and scream omg I was an idiot. If he'd just show he could grow and learn from his mistakes and admit if I had a chance to that differently, I would. Others...

-stop giving young players constant "scheduled off-days" omg nothing kills momentum like these pre-decided idiotic moves
-go with the hot hand instead of the perfect matchup, in pitching, hitting, and even defensive shifts/pitch calls
-if any starting pitcher, bp arm, hitter is on fire during a game, keep him in there as long as possible, even if a certain situation calls for a different matchup
-stop making late-innning D replacements with your best hitters unless your 90%+ sure removing him will not come back to bite you

Those are mine. Others have thoughts of things he could do to quell some of the hate?

Maybe he'll read this and listen. lmao

He's laughing because he is set for life with the money he is making and kept his job in spite of 2 losing seasons in the last 3.

Marmol has an overall winning record (just slightly over .500) of .502 in his three years. LaRussa’s first three years was a .504 record.
Don’t remember the same criticism with a similar record.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 09:20 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:37 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pm Monday (yesterday) afternoon, the Fastlane interviewed Oli Marmol. They asked him, "Now that you're entering your 5th year, what's the main thing you thought you knew during your first season, but you realize now you actually had no clue about it back then?"

Oli's response:

"I had no idea I would be hated this much."

He was able to laugh it off and followed up by saying it's okay because being in the big chair means ultimately every decision ends with you and that's what he says he wants.

Personally, I feel if you truly hate a sports player/coach you're trying to fill some other void in your life with sports. Actually hating a person in sports makes you one of those cukoo for cocoa puffs fans.

I think he seems like a great guy but loathe him as a manager due to his unapologetic demeanor and the fact he repeats the same mistakes over and over again. I've still never heard him admit that Game 1 against the Phils in 2022 was a mistake. He doesn't need to slap his forehead and scream omg I was an idiot. If he'd just show he could grow and learn from his mistakes and admit if I had a chance to that differently, I would. Others...

-stop giving young players constant "scheduled off-days" omg nothing kills momentum like these pre-decided idiotic moves
-go with the hot hand instead of the perfect matchup, in pitching, hitting, and even defensive shifts/pitch calls
-if any starting pitcher, bp arm, hitter is on fire during a game, keep him in there as long as possible, even if a certain situation calls for a different matchup
-stop making late-innning D replacements with your best hitters unless your 90%+ sure removing him will not come back to bite you

Those are mine. Others have thoughts of things he could do to quell some of the hate?

Maybe he'll read this and listen. lmao

He's laughing because he is set for life with the money he is making and kept his job in spite of 2 losing seasons in the last 3.

No. He’s laughing because it’s an uncomfortable truth. He.should have 3 losing seasons given the talent, but managed to overcome one year. It’s a futile feeling to be judged by people who are convinced they know more about baseball than a ML manager.

Experienced, successful managers know better than to put themselves in this position. The right question would be knowing what you know now, what would you have done differently?

CCard wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 07:47 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pm Monday (yesterday) afternoon, the Fastlane interviewed Oli Marmol. They asked him, "Now that you're entering your 5th year, what's the main thing you thought you knew during your first season, but you realize now you actually had no clue about it back then?"

Oli's response:

"I had no idea I would be hated this much."

He was able to laugh it off and followed up by saying it's okay because being in the big chair means ultimately every decision ends with you and that's what he says he wants.

Personally, I feel if you truly hate a sports player/coach you're trying to fill some other void in your life with sports. Actually hating a person in sports makes you one of those cukoo for cocoa puffs fans.

I think he seems like a great guy but loathe him as a manager due to his unapologetic demeanor and the fact he repeats the same mistakes over and over again. I've still never heard him admit that Game 1 against the Phils in 2022 was a mistake. He doesn't need to slap his forehead and scream omg I was an idiot. If he'd just show he could grow and learn from his mistakes and admit if I had a chance to that differently, I would. Others...

-stop giving young players constant "scheduled off-days" omg nothing kills momentum like these pre-decided idiotic moves
-go with the hot hand instead of the perfect matchup, in pitching, hitting, and even defensive shifts/pitch calls
-if any starting pitcher, bp arm, hitter is on fire during a game, keep him in there as long as possible, even if a certain situation calls for a different matchup
-stop making late-innning D replacements with your best hitters unless your 90%+ sure removing him will not come back to bite you

Those are mine. Others have thoughts of things he could do to quell some of the hate?

Maybe he'll read this and listen. lmao

Anybody that has venom for a manager is sorely lacking in impulse control. The very nature of the game is conducive to second guessing. Bring in a reliever and he gives up a homerun..."What an idiot!"...Leave a pitcher in and he gives up a homerun.."What an idiot!" LOL They can't win. Herzog said something along the lines of ..."I'm a genius when I have a good bullpen and an idiot when I have a bad one." I paraphrase of course.

ramfandan wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 07:30 am

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 06:37 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pm Monday (yesterday) afternoon, the Fastlane interviewed Oli Marmol. They asked him, "Now that you're entering your 5th year, what's the main thing you thought you knew during your first season, but you realize now you actually had no clue about it back then?"

Oli's response:

"I had no idea I would be hated this much."

He was able to laugh it off and followed up by saying it's okay because being in the big chair means ultimately every decision ends with you and that's what he says he wants.

Personally, I feel if you truly hate a sports player/coach you're trying to fill some other void in your life with sports. Actually hating a person in sports makes you one of those cukoo for cocoa puffs fans.

I think he seems like a great guy but loathe him as a manager due to his unapologetic demeanor and the fact he repeats the same mistakes over and over again. I've still never heard him admit that Game 1 against the Phils in 2022 was a mistake. He doesn't need to slap his forehead and scream omg I was an idiot. If he'd just show he could grow and learn from his mistakes and admit if I had a chance to that differently, I would. Others...

-stop giving young players constant "scheduled off-days" omg nothing kills momentum like these pre-decided idiotic moves
-go with the hot hand instead of the perfect matchup, in pitching, hitting, and even defensive shifts/pitch calls
-if any starting pitcher, bp arm, hitter is on fire during a game, keep him in there as long as possible, even if a certain situation calls for a different matchup
-stop making late-innning D replacements with your best hitters unless your 90%+ sure removing him will not come back to bite you

Those are mine. Others have thoughts of things he could do to quell some of the hate?

Maybe he'll read this and listen. lmao

He's laughing because he is set for life with the money he is making and kept his job in spite of 2 losing seasons in the last 3.

Marmol has an overall winning record (just slightly over .500) of .502 in his three years. LaRussa’s first three years was a .504 record.
Don’t remember the same criticism with a similar record.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 10:39 am

CCard wrote: ↑24 Dec 2025 07:47 am

blackinkbiz wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 17:27 pm Monday (yesterday) afternoon, the Fastlane interviewed Oli Marmol. They asked him, "Now that you're entering your 5th year, what's the main thing you thought you knew during your first season, but you realize now you actually had no clue about it back then?"

Oli's response:

"I had no idea I would be hated this much."

He was able to laugh it off and followed up by saying it's okay because being in the big chair means ultimately every decision ends with you and that's what he says he wants.

Personally, I feel if you truly hate a sports player/coach you're trying to fill some other void in your life with sports. Actually hating a person in sports makes you one of those cukoo for cocoa puffs fans.

I think he seems like a great guy but loathe him as a manager due to his unapologetic demeanor and the fact he repeats the same mistakes over and over again. I've still never heard him admit that Game 1 against the Phils in 2022 was a mistake. He doesn't need to slap his forehead and scream omg I was an idiot. If he'd just show he could grow and learn from his mistakes and admit if I had a chance to that differently, I would. Others...

-stop giving young players constant "scheduled off-days" omg nothing kills momentum like these pre-decided idiotic moves
-go with the hot hand instead of the perfect matchup, in pitching, hitting, and even defensive shifts/pitch calls
-if any starting pitcher, bp arm, hitter is on fire during a game, keep him in there as long as possible, even if a certain situation calls for a different matchup
-stop making late-innning D replacements with your best hitters unless your 90%+ sure removing him will not come back to bite you

Those are mine. Others have thoughts of things he could do to quell some of the hate?

Maybe he'll read this and listen. lmao

Anybody that has venom for a manager is sorely lacking in impulse control. The very nature of the game is conducive to second guessing. Bring in a reliever and he gives up a homerun..."What an idiot!"...Leave a pitcher in and he gives up a homerun.."What an idiot!" LOL They can't win. Herzog said something along the lines of ..."I'm a genius when I have a good bullpen and an idiot when I have a bad one." I paraphrase of course.

So,

You have griped and moaned about all the cost-cutting on the roster yet you’re fine with Marmol?

Ok.

And the only apt comparisons between Herzog and Marmol is they both managed the Cardinals. Similarities end there.