STLtoday.com

An Old Friend wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:19 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 05:20 am Based on a lot of recent threads, there continues to be the CT philosophical divide which revolves around the notion that the Cardinals not only have to win, they have to win "the right way."

We know the Cardinals are a middle market team. They aren't the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, etc. on one end. Nor are they the Rays, Pirates, As, etc. on the other.

I think this is partially where we are not aligned. I think the Cardinals are now a small market team which is why they have to behave like one.

WeeVikes wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:29 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

I think you just found the middle ground of this debate. Had the Cardinals not made those mistakes they’d still need to figure out how to efficiently compete against the huge markets, but they wouldn’t have to dig out of the hole in which the find themselves. However, they are in that hole, so the reconstruction process is now necessary. I think there is plenty of truth to go around on both sides of this.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:28 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:21 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:11 am

3dender wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:04 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

Back to the OP, the entire problem with trying to be a "light" version of the big spenders is that a mid market team has no room for ANY errors, let alone the multiple errors that Mo committed in his last decade. The big market teams can absorb those errors and just spend more money, but they are crippling for a team like the Cards.

That's why to be successful smaller markets have to build a team cheaply that can compete even without those big contracts, which is what TB, Cleveland, and lately Milwaukee have been able to do consistently.

Imagine Milwaukee or Cleveland in this year's playoffs if they had had Alonso at 1B or Bregman at 3B, or Blake Snell or Max Fried. All mattmitch is saying is that's what the Cards should aspire to be.

He says it every hour on the hour. Most of us don't want to be "light big spenders". We realize the pile of bad decision making has led to a period where the farm needed attention. I, and many others, reject the notion that no other moves should be considered in the name of tanking. When opportunity knocks, and if it does not entail mortgaging the future, then it should at least be considered.

I'd also add that the TB, Milwaukee, Cleveland model has netter zero world series titles, which is the primary justification those like him use for the teardown/rebuild. We need our own plan...not theirs.

What annoys me with this poster is his insistence on writing these narratives telling us how we think.

The Cleveland, TB model lives off of under 2mil attendance. Mil is well under the 3.2-3.5 attendance afforded to BDW for 25yr. Fine if you want to emulate their development model but completely disregarding the STL Revenue is asinine. If $$$ isn’t spent on ML payroll FANS WILL NOT RETURN

I absolutely DO NOT want to emulate their non-championship model. I was being sarcastic. And yes, I understand an empty house is not conducive to increased spending, but I also know the fans will return if they field a good team. Everybody loves a winner.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:30 am

WeeVikes wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:29 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

I think you just found the middle ground of this debate. Had the Cardinals not made those mistakes they’d still need to figure out how to efficiently compete against the huge markets, but they wouldn’t have to dig out of the hole in which the find themselves. However, they are in that hole, so the reconstruction process is now necessary. I think there is plenty of truth to go around on both sides of this.

Agreed, especially on your last statement. But that won't stop the OP from telling us how the opposition REALLY thinks.

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:21 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:11 am

3dender wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:04 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

Back to the OP, the entire problem with trying to be a "light" version of the big spenders is that a mid market team has no room for ANY errors, let alone the multiple errors that Mo committed in his last decade. The big market teams can absorb those errors and just spend more money, but they are crippling for a team like the Cards.

That's why to be successful smaller markets have to build a team cheaply that can compete even without those big contracts, which is what TB, Cleveland, and lately Milwaukee have been able to do consistently.

Imagine Milwaukee or Cleveland in this year's playoffs if they had had Alonso at 1B or Bregman at 3B, or Blake Snell or Max Fried. All mattmitch is saying is that's what the Cards should aspire to be.

He says it every hour on the hour. Most of us don't want to be "light big spenders". We realize the pile of bad decision making has led to a period where the farm needed attention. I, and many others, reject the notion that no other moves should be considered in the name of tanking. When opportunity knocks, and if it does not entail mortgaging the future, then it should at least be considered.

I'd also add that the TB, Milwaukee, Cleveland model has netter zero world series titles, which is the primary justification those like him use for the teardown/rebuild. We need our own plan...not theirs.

What annoys me with this poster is his insistence on writing these narratives telling us how we think.

The Cleveland, TB model lives off of under 2mil attendance. Mil is well under the 3.2-3.5 attendance afforded to BDW for 25yr. Fine if you want to emulate their development model but completely disregarding the STL Revenue is asinine. If $$$ isn’t spent on ML payroll FANS WILL NOT RETURN

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:32 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:28 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:21 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:11 am

3dender wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:04 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

Back to the OP, the entire problem with trying to be a "light" version of the big spenders is that a mid market team has no room for ANY errors, let alone the multiple errors that Mo committed in his last decade. The big market teams can absorb those errors and just spend more money, but they are crippling for a team like the Cards.

That's why to be successful smaller markets have to build a team cheaply that can compete even without those big contracts, which is what TB, Cleveland, and lately Milwaukee have been able to do consistently.

Imagine Milwaukee or Cleveland in this year's playoffs if they had had Alonso at 1B or Bregman at 3B, or Blake Snell or Max Fried. All mattmitch is saying is that's what the Cards should aspire to be.

He says it every hour on the hour. Most of us don't want to be "light big spenders". We realize the pile of bad decision making has led to a period where the farm needed attention. I, and many others, reject the notion that no other moves should be considered in the name of tanking. When opportunity knocks, and if it does not entail mortgaging the future, then it should at least be considered.

I'd also add that the TB, Milwaukee, Cleveland model has netter zero world series titles, which is the primary justification those like him use for the teardown/rebuild. We need our own plan...not theirs.

What annoys me with this poster is his insistence on writing these narratives telling us how we think.

The Cleveland, TB model lives off of under 2mil attendance. Mil is well under the 3.2-3.5 attendance afforded to BDW for 25yr. Fine if you want to emulate their development model but completely disregarding the STL Revenue is asinine. If $$$ isn’t spent on ML payroll FANS WILL NOT RETURN

I absolutely DO NOT want to emulate their non-championship model. I was being sarcastic. And yes, I understand an empty house is not conducive to increased spending, but I also know the fans will return if they field a good team. Everybody loves a winner.

Everybody loves a winner. Winning cures all ails. No matter the event, if there is a good product, people will spend. That’s what humans do- spend and eat. Period.

WeeVikes wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:33 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:30 am

WeeVikes wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:29 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

I think you just found the middle ground of this debate. Had the Cardinals not made those mistakes they’d still need to figure out how to efficiently compete against the huge markets, but they wouldn’t have to dig out of the hole in which the find themselves. However, they are in that hole, so the reconstruction process is now necessary. I think there is plenty of truth to go around on both sides of this.

Agreed, especially on your last statement. But that won't stop the OP from telling us how the opposition REALLY thinks.

Perhaps not. Hopefully everyone will get the message you’re communicating with an open mind. This is a big job.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:32 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:28 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:21 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:11 am

3dender wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:04 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

Back to the OP, the entire problem with trying to be a "light" version of the big spenders is that a mid market team has no room for ANY errors, let alone the multiple errors that Mo committed in his last decade. The big market teams can absorb those errors and just spend more money, but they are crippling for a team like the Cards.

That's why to be successful smaller markets have to build a team cheaply that can compete even without those big contracts, which is what TB, Cleveland, and lately Milwaukee have been able to do consistently.

Imagine Milwaukee or Cleveland in this year's playoffs if they had had Alonso at 1B or Bregman at 3B, or Blake Snell or Max Fried. All mattmitch is saying is that's what the Cards should aspire to be.

He says it every hour on the hour. Most of us don't want to be "light big spenders". We realize the pile of bad decision making has led to a period where the farm needed attention. I, and many others, reject the notion that no other moves should be considered in the name of tanking. When opportunity knocks, and if it does not entail mortgaging the future, then it should at least be considered.

I'd also add that the TB, Milwaukee, Cleveland model has netter zero world series titles, which is the primary justification those like him use for the teardown/rebuild. We need our own plan...not theirs.

What annoys me with this poster is his insistence on writing these narratives telling us how we think.

The Cleveland, TB model lives off of under 2mil attendance. Mil is well under the 3.2-3.5 attendance afforded to BDW for 25yr. Fine if you want to emulate their development model but completely disregarding the STL Revenue is asinine. If $$$ isn’t spent on ML payroll FANS WILL NOT RETURN

I absolutely DO NOT want to emulate their non-championship model. I was being sarcastic. And yes, I understand an empty house is not conducive to increased spending, but I also know the fans will return if they field a good team. Everybody loves a winner.

Everybody loves a winner. Winning cures all ails. No matter the event, if there is a good product, people will spend. That’s what humans do- spend and eat. Period.

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:38 am Do some research before you place Cards at bottom of Revenue pile and expect them behave like the bottom
2025 MLB Revenue CNBC

Mets 496mil
Braves 476
Rangers 446
Angels 398
12. Cards 395
Mariners 383
Jays 386
….
….
21.Mil 337
25. Clev336
27. Pitts 329
29. Rays 304

Stop with your excuses and nonsense. Cards sit at 12 where they’ve been for at or near for the last 25yrs. The Braves, Rangers, Angels, Mariners, Jays are more than able to spend on FA and not act the bottom quartile where Mil, Cleve, Pitts, Ray live.

...a "heavy" version of Milwaukee, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, etc. - with an emphasis on a foundation of young, cost controlled players and less dependence on expensive veterans, but still able to spend more on such veterans than teams like Milwaukee.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:33 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:21 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:11 am

3dender wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:04 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

Back to the OP, the entire problem with trying to be a "light" version of the big spenders is that a mid market team has no room for ANY errors, let alone the multiple errors that Mo committed in his last decade. The big market teams can absorb those errors and just spend more money, but they are crippling for a team like the Cards.

That's why to be successful smaller markets have to build a team cheaply that can compete even without those big contracts, which is what TB, Cleveland, and lately Milwaukee have been able to do consistently.

Imagine Milwaukee or Cleveland in this year's playoffs if they had had Alonso at 1B or Bregman at 3B, or Blake Snell or Max Fried. All mattmitch is saying is that's what the Cards should aspire to be.

He says it every hour on the hour. Most of us don't want to be "light big spenders". We realize the pile of bad decision making has led to a period where the farm needed attention. I, and many others, reject the notion that no other moves should be considered in the name of tanking. When opportunity knocks, and if it does not entail mortgaging the future, then it should at least be considered.

I'd also add that the TB, Milwaukee, Cleveland model has netter zero world series titles, which is the primary justification those like him use for the teardown/rebuild. We need our own plan...not theirs.

What annoys me with this poster is his insistence on writing these narratives telling us how we think.

The Cleveland, TB model lives off of under 2mil attendance. Mil is well under the 3.2-3.5 attendance afforded to BDW for 25yr. Fine if you want to emulate their development model but completely disregarding the STL Revenue is asinine. If $$$ isn’t spent on ML payroll FANS WILL NOT RETURN

Again - no one is advocating them not return to spending $170, $180, etc. million at some point.

But it's moot for them to commit that money right now.

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:45 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:33 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:21 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:11 am

3dender wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:04 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

Back to the OP, the entire problem with trying to be a "light" version of the big spenders is that a mid market team has no room for ANY errors, let alone the multiple errors that Mo committed in his last decade. The big market teams can absorb those errors and just spend more money, but they are crippling for a team like the Cards.

That's why to be successful smaller markets have to build a team cheaply that can compete even without those big contracts, which is what TB, Cleveland, and lately Milwaukee have been able to do consistently.

Imagine Milwaukee or Cleveland in this year's playoffs if they had had Alonso at 1B or Bregman at 3B, or Blake Snell or Max Fried. All mattmitch is saying is that's what the Cards should aspire to be.

He says it every hour on the hour. Most of us don't want to be "light big spenders". We realize the pile of bad decision making has led to a period where the farm needed attention. I, and many others, reject the notion that no other moves should be considered in the name of tanking. When opportunity knocks, and if it does not entail mortgaging the future, then it should at least be considered.

I'd also add that the TB, Milwaukee, Cleveland model has netter zero world series titles, which is the primary justification those like him use for the teardown/rebuild. We need our own plan...not theirs.

What annoys me with this poster is his insistence on writing these narratives telling us how we think.

The Cleveland, TB model lives off of under 2mil attendance. Mil is well under the 3.2-3.5 attendance afforded to BDW for 25yr. Fine if you want to emulate their development model but completely disregarding the STL Revenue is asinine. If $$$ isn’t spent on ML payroll FANS WILL NOT RETURN

Again - no one is advocating them not return to spending $170, $180, etc. million at some point.

But it's moot for them to commit that money right now.

It isn’t Moot.

They aren't getting to being a truly competitive team from where they are by spending another $80 million.

Spending $80-$90 million from where they will be after subtracting Gray, Contreras, Arenado, Donovan, Helsley, Mikolas, Matz, Maton, Fedde, etc. only gets them back to mediocre. It gets them back to where they have been - an 85, 86, maybe 87 win team that wants to just sneak into the playoffs and hope for the best.

And the ultimate problem is spending $25 million in 2026 on another SP, $25 million in 2026 on another bat, etc. won't just be spending $25 million in 2026. It will be signing a SP for 5 yrs./$125 million or a bat for 6 yrs./$150 million. And, in a few years, when the rest of the roster IS ready to compete again, those contracts will likely be "underwater" - another Nolan Arenado - that keeps them from putting a better team on the field in 2028, 2029, etc.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:40 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:38 am Do some research before you place Cards at bottom of Revenue pile and expect them behave like the bottom
2025 MLB Revenue CNBC

Mets 496mil
Braves 476
Rangers 446
Angels 398
12. Cards 395
Mariners 383
Jays 386
….
….
21.Mil 337
25. Clev336
27. Pitts 329
29. Rays 304

Stop with your excuses and nonsense. Cards sit at 12 where they’ve been for at or near for the last 25yrs. The Braves, Rangers, Angels, Mariners, Jays are more than able to spend on FA and not act the bottom quartile where Mil, Cleve, Pitts, Ray live.

Again:

...a "heavy" version of Milwaukee, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, etc. - with an emphasis on a foundation of young, cost controlled players and less dependence on expensive veterans, but still able to spend more on such veterans than teams like Milwaukee.

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:48 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:40 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:38 am Do some research before you place Cards at bottom of Revenue pile and expect them behave like the bottom
2025 MLB Revenue CNBC

Mets 496mil
Braves 476
Rangers 446
Angels 398
12. Cards 395
Mariners 383
Jays 386
….
….
21.Mil 337
25. Clev336
27. Pitts 329
29. Rays 304

Stop with your excuses and nonsense. Cards sit at 12 where they’ve been for at or near for the last 25yrs. The Braves, Rangers, Angels, Mariners, Jays are more than able to spend on FA and not act the bottom quartile where Mil, Cleve, Pitts, Ray live.

Again:

...a "heavy" version of Milwaukee, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, etc. - with an emphasis on a foundation of young, cost controlled players and less dependence on expensive veterans, but still able to spend more on such veterans than teams like Milwaukee.

Do you have a very good reason BDW can’t spend $$ this offseason for ‘26 other than he doesn’t want to???? He just dumped 80-90mil and spent 13
Him keeping his MLB payroll $$$ in his pocket helps the Drafting??? Helps player dev??? Walk and chew gun at same time

And the ultimate problem is spending $25 million in 2026 on another SP, $25 million in 2026 on another bat, etc. won't just be spending $25 million in 2026. It will be signing a SP for 5 yrs./$125 million or a bat for 6 yrs./$150 million. And, in a few years, when the rest of the roster IS ready to compete again, those contracts will likely be "underwater" - another Nolan Arenado - that keeps them from putting a better team on the field in 2028, 2029, etc.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:48 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:45 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:33 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:21 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:11 am

3dender wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:04 am

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:41 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 07:32 am Big market teams are spending more. That’s why I support not only a ceiling on spending but also a floor.

However that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cardinal issues. ITS POOR DECISIOM MAKING!!! Poor talent evaluation. Poor development. Poor spending habits. Poor revenue management, ie TV deal. Poor planning. Poor focus.

Well stated. This teardown/rebuild would've been completely unnecessary with a just reasonable level of competence.

Back to the OP, the entire problem with trying to be a "light" version of the big spenders is that a mid market team has no room for ANY errors, let alone the multiple errors that Mo committed in his last decade. The big market teams can absorb those errors and just spend more money, but they are crippling for a team like the Cards.

That's why to be successful smaller markets have to build a team cheaply that can compete even without those big contracts, which is what TB, Cleveland, and lately Milwaukee have been able to do consistently.

Imagine Milwaukee or Cleveland in this year's playoffs if they had had Alonso at 1B or Bregman at 3B, or Blake Snell or Max Fried. All mattmitch is saying is that's what the Cards should aspire to be.

He says it every hour on the hour. Most of us don't want to be "light big spenders". We realize the pile of bad decision making has led to a period where the farm needed attention. I, and many others, reject the notion that no other moves should be considered in the name of tanking. When opportunity knocks, and if it does not entail mortgaging the future, then it should at least be considered.

I'd also add that the TB, Milwaukee, Cleveland model has netter zero world series titles, which is the primary justification those like him use for the teardown/rebuild. We need our own plan...not theirs.

What annoys me with this poster is his insistence on writing these narratives telling us how we think.

The Cleveland, TB model lives off of under 2mil attendance. Mil is well under the 3.2-3.5 attendance afforded to BDW for 25yr. Fine if you want to emulate their development model but completely disregarding the STL Revenue is asinine. If $$$ isn’t spent on ML payroll FANS WILL NOT RETURN

Again - no one is advocating them not return to spending $170, $180, etc. million at some point.

But it's moot for them to commit that money right now.

It isn’t Moot.

It's moot. Same thought from other thread:

They aren't getting to being a truly competitive team from where they are by spending another $80 million.

Spending $80-$90 million from where they will be after subtracting Gray, Contreras, Arenado, Donovan, Helsley, Mikolas, Matz, Maton, Fedde, etc. only gets them back to mediocre. It gets them back to where they have been - an 85, 86, maybe 87 win team that wants to just sneak into the playoffs and hope for the best.

And the ultimate problem is spending $25 million in 2026 on another SP, $25 million in 2026 on another bat, etc. won't just be spending $25 million in 2026. It will be signing a SP for 5 yrs./$125 million or a bat for 6 yrs./$150 million. And, in a few years, when the rest of the roster IS ready to compete again, those contracts will likely be "underwater" - another Nolan Arenado - that keeps them from putting a better team on the field in 2028, 2029, etc.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:51 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:48 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:40 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑23 Dec 2025 08:38 am Do some research before you place Cards at bottom of Revenue pile and expect them behave like the bottom
2025 MLB Revenue CNBC

Mets 496mil
Braves 476
Rangers 446
Angels 398
12. Cards 395
Mariners 383
Jays 386
….
….
21.Mil 337
25. Clev336
27. Pitts 329
29. Rays 304

Stop with your excuses and nonsense. Cards sit at 12 where they’ve been for at or near for the last 25yrs. The Braves, Rangers, Angels, Mariners, Jays are more than able to spend on FA and not act the bottom quartile where Mil, Cleve, Pitts, Ray live.

Again:

...a "heavy" version of Milwaukee, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, etc. - with an emphasis on a foundation of young, cost controlled players and less dependence on expensive veterans, but still able to spend more on such veterans than teams like Milwaukee.

Do you have a very good reason BDW can’t spend $$ this offseason for ‘26 other than he doesn’t want to???? He just dumped 80-90mil and spent 13
Him keeping his MLB payroll $$$ in his pocket helps the Drafting??? Helps player dev??? Walk and chew gun at same time

Yes:

And the ultimate problem is spending $25 million in 2026 on another SP, $25 million in 2026 on another bat, etc. won't just be spending $25 million in 2026. It will be signing a SP for 5 yrs./$125 million or a bat for 6 yrs./$150 million. And, in a few years, when the rest of the roster IS ready to compete again, those contracts will likely be "underwater" - another Nolan Arenado - that keeps them from putting a better team on the field in 2028, 2029, etc.

Don't commit this offseason to the contracts that are going to be your next "Nolan Arenado"s in 2028, 2029, 2030.