Can St. Louis Cardinal fans withstand the Rebuild Tornado that is about to hit ?

[Ozziesfan41]

50 min. video posted about an hour ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VM6J5sHPOs

If rebuild proves successful BFIB will jump back on the bandwagon like clockwork

It’s more likely that rebuild will become perpetual. Then what?

Why is it more likely to become perpetual?

[earp]

I can. I’m excited the cardinals finally have a direction. I’ve always said I can get behind the organization as long as it has a direction. If they are going all in to win I can get behind it even if it fails because it’s a direction and they are going for it and can lead to them having a chance to win if they are going to rebuild and go all in on the rebuild to build a team that can win in the future I can get behind it because it’s a direction and can lead to them having a chance to win. I couldn’t get behind mos sustained mediocrity approach where it’s make meh moves hope to compete squeak in and pray for miracles that lead to no chance of winning

Remind me what it looks like when the Cardinals “ go all in to win “ it’s been so long ago, I can’t seem to remember what that looks like!

Resilient averageness

[Ozziesfan41]

I can. I’m excited the cardinals finally have a direction. I’ve always said I can get behind the organization as long as it has a direction. If they are going all in to win I can get behind it even if it fails because it’s a direction and they are going for it and can lead to them having a chance to win if they are going to rebuild and go all in on the rebuild to build a team that can win in the future I can get behind it because it’s a direction and can lead to them having a chance to win. I couldn’t get behind mos sustained mediocrity approach where it’s make meh moves hope to compete squeak in and pray for miracles that lead to no chance of winning

Remind me what it looks like when the Cardinals “ go all in to win “ it’s been so long ago, I can’t seem to remember what that looks like!

Well, back when they were "all in", they did happen to be lucky enough to have the best player of his generation, and the best catcher in MLB. Thats a pretty hood foundation to start with. Tough now to go all-in when management swung and missed on so many elements.

Mo went all in once and that was 2011 when he tried to go all in and made a bunch of trades at the deadline to address all of the teams holes. There were times even after pujols left the cardinals were in very strong position to go all in to try to win. The cardinals had very strong starting pitching after pujols left but had no middle of the order and Mo ignored it and tried to push carpenter and Adam’s and grichuk into middle of the order bats and get moss then Mo finally decided to get middle of the order bats and got ozuna then goldy and arenado and that’s when he started letting the rotation go and needing a decent 1,2 punch at the top of the rotation. Instead of going all in with those teams Mo would do his usual trade for a reliever at the deadline and say they need to win with what they have. If mo had actually been trying to win and went all in to fix the teams problems instead of just wanting to compete squeak in and pray for miracles the cardinals could have probably won at least one more and been a bigger factor in the post season

[Cardinals4Life]

I can. I’m excited the cardinals finally have a direction. I’ve always said I can get behind the organization as long as it has a direction. If they are going all in to win I can get behind it even if it fails because it’s a direction and they are going for it and can lead to them having a chance to win if they are going to rebuild and go all in on the rebuild to build a team that can win in the future I can get behind it because it’s a direction and can lead to them having a chance to win. I couldn’t get behind mos sustained mediocrity approach where it’s make meh moves hope to compete squeak in and pray for miracles that lead to no chance of winning

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm on that side as well. A youth movement may be the most exciting baseball we've seen in a few years. I hope Oli can provide and allow a little bit of excitement from the dugout

Oli cannot provide anything. Sorry.

[Cardinals4Life]

I can. I’m excited the cardinals finally have a direction. I’ve always said I can get behind the organization as long as it has a direction. If they are going all in to win I can get behind it even if it fails because it’s a direction and they are going for it and can lead to them having a chance to win if they are going to rebuild and go all in on the rebuild to build a team that can win in the future I can get behind it because it’s a direction and can lead to them having a chance to win. I couldn’t get behind mos sustained mediocrity approach where it’s make meh moves hope to compete squeak in and pray for miracles that lead to no chance of winning

Remind me what it looks like when the Cardinals “ go all in to win “ it’s been so long ago, I can’t seem to remember what that looks like!

2011 was a long time ago!

[Cardinals4Life]

I can. I’m excited the cardinals finally have a direction. I’ve always said I can get behind the organization as long as it has a direction. If they are going all in to win I can get behind it even if it fails because it’s a direction and they are going for it and can lead to them having a chance to win if they are going to rebuild and go all in on the rebuild to build a team that can win in the future I can get behind it because it’s a direction and can lead to them having a chance to win. I couldn’t get behind mos sustained mediocrity approach where it’s make meh moves hope to compete squeak in and pray for miracles that lead to no chance of winning

Remind me what it looks like when the Cardinals “ go all in to win “ it’s been so long ago, I can’t seem to remember what that looks like!

Well, back when they were "all in", they did happen to be lucky enough to have the best player of his generation, and the best catcher in MLB. Thats a pretty hood foundation to start with. Tough now to go all-in when management swung and missed on so many elements.

Mo went all in once and that was 2011 when he tried to go all in and made a bunch of trades at the deadline to address all of the teams holes. There were times even after pujols left the cardinals were in very strong position to go all in to try to win. The cardinals had very strong starting pitching after pujols left but had no middle of the order and Mo ignored it and tried to push carpenter and Adam’s and grichuk into middle of the order bats and get moss then Mo finally decided to get middle of the order bats and got ozuna then goldy and arenado and that’s when he started letting the rotation go and needing a decent 1,2 punch at the top of the rotation. Instead of going all in with those teams Mo would do his usual trade for a reliever at the deadline and say they need to win with what they have. If mo had actually been trying to win and went all in to fix the teams problems instead of just wanting to compete squeak in and pray for miracles the cardinals could have probably won at least one more and been a bigger factor in the post season

Yep! After 2011, MO refused to "finish" the teams he had. Always needed 1 or 2 more pieces and he refused to go all in and get it. This is what led to mediocrity.
This is also why I don't think a total teardown is necessary. This team could be competive again very soon, but Bloom will have to be allowed to spend on hos missing pieces.

[Hoosier59]

I can. I’m excited the cardinals finally have a direction. I’ve always said I can get behind the organization as long as it has a direction. If they are going all in to win I can get behind it even if it fails because it’s a direction and they are going for it and can lead to them having a chance to win if they are going to rebuild and go all in on the rebuild to build a team that can win in the future I can get behind it because it’s a direction and can lead to them having a chance to win. I couldn’t get behind mos sustained mediocrity approach where it’s make meh moves hope to compete squeak in and pray for miracles that lead to no chance of winning

Remind me what it looks like when the Cardinals “ go all in to win “ it’s been so long ago, I can’t seem to remember what that looks like!

Well, back when they were "all in", they did happen to be lucky enough to have the best player of his generation, and the best catcher in MLB. Thats a pretty hood foundation to start with. Tough now to go all-in when management swung and missed on so many elements.

Mo went all in once and that was 2011 when he tried to go all in and made a bunch of trades at the deadline to address all of the teams holes. There were times even after pujols left the cardinals were in very strong position to go all in to try to win. The cardinals had very strong starting pitching after pujols left but had no middle of the order and Mo ignored it and tried to push carpenter and Adam’s and grichuk into middle of the order bats and get moss then Mo finally decided to get middle of the order bats and got ozuna then goldy and arenado and that’s when he started letting the rotation go and needing a decent 1,2 punch at the top of the rotation. Instead of going all in with those teams Mo would do his usual trade for a reliever at the deadline and say they need to win with what they have. If mo had actually been trying to win and went all in to fix the teams problems instead of just wanting to compete squeak in and pray for miracles the cardinals could have probably won at least one more and been a bigger factor in the post season

Yep! After 2011, MO refused to "finish" the teams he had. Always needed 1 or 2 more pieces and he refused to go all in and get it. This is what led to mediocrity.
This is also why I don't think a total teardown is necessary. This team could be competive again very soon, but Bloom will have to be allowed to spend on hos missing pieces.

Which was exactly my point. Mo, or DeWitt, whichever, haven’t actually tried to win since 2011! To your point, another move or two through the years and they could have been right there with any team! They refused to do that, and then when the moves they did make failed, we have the 2025 Cardinals. By refusing to spend a little bit more money each season, or spend it more wisely, through the past few years they alone created this mess. To gets things fixed now, and to be relevant again, the Cardinals will have to spend big money, or choose to try and rebuild and hope for another Pujols, Yadi, and a Wainwright to come along. The odds of that are slim, but that’s what they’ve chosen to do. Not only that, but they’ve chosen to tear it completely down, and rid themselves any player making any money at all. Dewitt is placing the future of the Cardinals squarely on a new Collective Bargaining Agreement, where the price of doing business will be more to his liking. My worry is, even if he gets his way, will the Cardinals “ go all in to win” ?

[juan good eye]

50 min. video posted about an hour ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VM6J5sHPOs

If rebuild proves successful BFIB will jump back on the bandwagon like clockwork

It’s more likely that rebuild will become perpetual. Then what?

Based on what evidence?

[ggnoobs]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

[mattmitchl44]

I'm expecting a fraction of CT to not survive it.

We'll have to start sending people out on wellness checks.

[Cardinals4Life]

50 min. video posted about an hour ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VM6J5sHPOs

If rebuild proves successful BFIB will jump back on the bandwagon like clockwork

It’s more likely that rebuild will become perpetual. Then what?

Based on what evidence?

Based on the pure # of teams that do it year after year. Many more examples of perpetual rebuilding than tanking and turning it around.

[Cardinals4Life]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

[mattmitchl44]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

I think I have made my point very clear.

You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.

Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.

Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.

[Cardinals4Life]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

I think I have made my point very clear.

You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.

Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.

Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.

Ok, then I don't expect to hear this same old c r a p next offseason about not wanting to spend $ or sign any stars. Same for 2027. Can you agree to that?
Or are we going to hear the same old tune every year from here to eternity? Or next year they will have some excuse as to why they can't spend money.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I think the rebuild can happen more quickly than people realize. Having people like Wetherholt, Crooks, Quinn Matthews, etc. ready to take a step forward, could help sped things up. It's not like their best prospects are in Single A or something, they have some prospects ready.

BUT, in order to speed up the rebuild, they need to invest in Free Agents a year or two before they think they will compete.

The Phillies signed Harper a couple years before their playoff window opened.
Astros brought in Evan Gattis (and others) a couple years before winning world series in 2017.
The Cubs signed Jon Lester to a big deal in 2014, before winning the world series in 2016.

So, in order to do a successful build, you have to have prospects, but also have to strike when you can and bring a star in a year or two before you think your window will open.

I would sign Freddy Peralta after the 2026 season, to be the #1 or #2 in 2027 and on. Skubal will also be a free agent after 2026, but Cardinals probably can't afford him.
Then also in the 2026 offseason, maybe go for Ronald Acuna Jr, or Adley Rustchman.

The point is, you have to get stars when you can get them, even if it's 2 years before your window. So to me, next offseason will need to be huge with signings, in order to be able to compete in 2028.

Agree. But according to MattMitch, you can't get any stars until you have a team full of cost controlled players who are all good.

I think I have made my point very clear.

You want your "stars" to still be "stars" as close to their primes as possible when you can combine them with the critical mass of young talent you need to really compete.

Buying a 30 or 31 year old "star" now who may well no longer be a "star level" player in three years when you are ready to compete, but who you of course are still having to pay "star" money, isn't optimal.

Wait and see where they are in developing a critical mass of young talent before deciding whether they start add expensive players after 2026 or 2027 etc.

Ok, then I don't expect to hear this same old c r a p next offseason about not wanting to spend $ or sign any stars. Same for 2027. Can you agree to that?
Or are we going to hear the same old tune every year from here to eternity? Or next year they will have some excuse as to why they can't spend money.

Obviously, these decisions aren't mine to make, but if they were I wouldn't spend any significant money until the CBA is settled. To me, this winter and the trade deadline are for re-shaping the roster and seeing how the new pieces fit together. Next winter I would be surprised if there is much activity by any team. My hope (expectation?) is that after this season, whenever play finally does resume that the Cardinals will be a playoff team, even if only a wildcard at first. I have the patience for that and find the preparations interesting.

[ForumPolice]

As opposed to the mediocre tapioca pudding we've been served the last few seasons while pedaling a stationary bike? Gladly

Also like the poster above me said, I don't blame the team at all for not wanting to sign any big contracts with a strike and new CBA looming