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craviduce wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 16:47 pm we need the innings...if you have a guy who can pitch the innings and cost the same as Pallante, then I'm listening.

If we're NTC the guy b/c "He suck bad"....remember it's 2026 and we're playing the role of the Pirates until 2028 begins. Pirates have a Skenes window that closes in 2 or 3 years, they're trying to compete now.

Agreed. If you can find a guy in FA who can give you 162.2 innings with a 4.68/4.16/4.36 FIP/xFIP/xERA for $3.4mm, great. Sign that guy AND keep Pallante because the Cardinals have a lot of innings to fill. They may not be particularly good innings, but that doesn’t seem to be the primary concern for 2026.

craviduce wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 16:47 pm we need the innings...if you have a guy who can pitch the innings and cost the same as Pallante, then I'm listening.

If we're NTC the guy b/c "He suck bad"....remember it's 2026 and we're playing the role of the Pirates until 2028 begins. Pirates have a Skenes window that closes in 2 or 3 years, they're trying to compete now.

We'll see where that ends up. They'll need to spend near $40 million
just to reach $100 million. Even they carry Oviedo at near $2 million.

Skeptic that I am, I wonder if a salary floor might be discussed in
the negotiations and Pitt, the CWS, also with some spending talk,
just aren't even trying.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:45 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:13 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:19 pm My guess? Pallante gets phased out of the rotation to the BP. Where he has been successful in the past.
He has to be better than Roycroft(barf), Munoz, etc

I keep seeing this cuse but he really wasn't "successful" in the pen' either:

Career as a RP
3.90 ERA
1.53 WHiP (This is the problem, you don't want RP's who come in and give up this extremely high number of Hits/Walks)
.277 .354 .393 .746 hitter slash against

As you can see opponents have a high .354 OB% against Pallante when he's pitched in relief.

He's J.A.G., easily replaced by a kid making ML minimum and that $3.4M allocated elsewhere.

JMO

Hey Rock he may not make the team but I just see him as being light years better than Roycroft, Munoz, etc

Those are some of the "deadwood" I keep referring to that I hope Bloom gets rid of, this team needs a good roster cleansing.

I don't ant to see anymore of Pallante, Roycroft, Munoz or Fernandez.

I'd DFA all four!

Could happen but I think Pallante hangs on.
Fernandez really fell off a cliff last year.

ClassicO wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 15:45 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 11:39 am From MLBTR.com:

The non-tender deadline is Friday evening. Teams need to decide whether they want to offer contracts to their arbitration-eligible (and pre-arbitration) players. Those who are not tendered contracts are sent directly into free agency without exposing them to waivers.

To be clear, this is not a list of players we (MLBTR.com) think are likelier than not to be non-tendered.

These are players we consider to have at least a 10-20% chance of being cut — a broad group who wouldn’t strike us as completely surprising.

As is the case each winter, MLBTR contributor Matt Swartz has projected salaries for the arbitration class.


These are the current Cardinals who made their list:

A. Pallante/Est. $3.4M in arbitration

J. King/ Est. $2.1M in arbitration


I'd DFA both and let C. Bloom re-invest that $5.5M.

Agree. Neither is worth the money or taking up a spot for someone who could actually develop into a very good player. These guys have no such hope.

Seems pretty obvious doesn't it CO?

Pallante types are a dime a dozen, you can find a kid at Memphis who deserves a shot at league minimum instead of wasting $3.4M on him.

Strummer Jones wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 15:48 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:45 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:13 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:19 pm My guess? Pallante gets phased out of the rotation to the BP. Where he has been successful in the past.
He has to be better than Roycroft(barf), Munoz, etc

I keep seeing this cuse but he really wasn't "successful" in the pen' either:

Career as a RP
3.90 ERA
1.53 WHiP (This is the problem, you don't want RP's who come in and give up this extremely high number of Hits/Walks)
.277 .354 .393 .746 hitter slash against

As you can see opponents have a high .354 OB% against Pallante when he's pitched in relief.

He's J.A.G., easily replaced by a kid making ML minimum and that $3.4M allocated elsewhere.

JMO

Hey Rock he may not make the team but I just see him as being light years better than Roycroft, Munoz, etc

Those are some of the "deadwood" I keep referring to that I hope Bloom gets rid of, this team needs a good roster cleansing.

I don't ant to see anymore of Pallante, Roycroft, Munoz or Fernandez.

I'd DFA all four!

Munoz already got claimed by the Reds.

Can't wait for the Cardinals to face him!

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 20:49 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:45 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:13 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:19 pm My guess? Pallante gets phased out of the rotation to the BP. Where he has been successful in the past.
He has to be better than Roycroft(barf), Munoz, etc

I keep seeing this cuse but he really wasn't "successful" in the pen' either:

Career as a RP
3.90 ERA
1.53 WHiP (This is the problem, you don't want RP's who come in and give up this extremely high number of Hits/Walks)
.277 .354 .393 .746 hitter slash against

As you can see opponents have a high .354 OB% against Pallante when he's pitched in relief.

He's J.A.G., easily replaced by a kid making ML minimum and that $3.4M allocated elsewhere.

JMO

Hey Rock he may not make the team but I just see him as being light years better than Roycroft, Munoz, etc

Those are some of the "deadwood" I keep referring to that I hope Bloom gets rid of, this team needs a good roster cleansing.

I don't ant to see anymore of Pallante, Roycroft, Munoz or Fernandez.

I'd DFA all four!

Could happen but I think Pallante hangs on.
Fernandez really fell off a cliff last year.

Sadly you may be right about Pallante.

But to me he's J.A.G, a wasted $3.4M who's blocking someone at AA/AAA who will make league minimum and deserves a shot in this upcoming "re-build" season.

That $3.4M could be better spent.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:39 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 20:49 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:45 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:13 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:19 pm My guess? Pallante gets phased out of the rotation to the BP. Where he has been successful in the past.
He has to be better than Roycroft(barf), Munoz, etc

I keep seeing this cuse but he really wasn't "successful" in the pen' either:

Career as a RP
3.90 ERA
1.53 WHiP (This is the problem, you don't want RP's who come in and give up this extremely high number of Hits/Walks)
.277 .354 .393 .746 hitter slash against

As you can see opponents have a high .354 OB% against Pallante when he's pitched in relief.

He's J.A.G., easily replaced by a kid making ML minimum and that $3.4M allocated elsewhere.

JMO

Hey Rock he may not make the team but I just see him as being light years better than Roycroft, Munoz, etc

Those are some of the "deadwood" I keep referring to that I hope Bloom gets rid of, this team needs a good roster cleansing.

I don't ant to see anymore of Pallante, Roycroft, Munoz or Fernandez.

I'd DFA all four!

Could happen but I think Pallante hangs on.
Fernandez really fell off a cliff last year.

Sadly you may be right about Pallante.

But to me he's J.A.G, a wasted $3.4M who's blocking someone at AA/AAA who will make league minimum and deserves a shot in this upcoming "re-build" season.

That $3.4M could be better spent.

You guys are messing with my guy. He’s a good number five. He hit the wall. Up till then, he was a reasonable number five. A toss up game.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:47 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:39 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 20:49 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:45 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:13 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:19 pm My guess? Pallante gets phased out of the rotation to the BP. Where he has been successful in the past.
He has to be better than Roycroft(barf), Munoz, etc

I keep seeing this cuse but he really wasn't "successful" in the pen' either:

Career as a RP
3.90 ERA
1.53 WHiP (This is the problem, you don't want RP's who come in and give up this extremely high number of Hits/Walks)
.277 .354 .393 .746 hitter slash against

As you can see opponents have a high .354 OB% against Pallante when he's pitched in relief.

He's J.A.G., easily replaced by a kid making ML minimum and that $3.4M allocated elsewhere.

JMO

Hey Rock he may not make the team but I just see him as being light years better than Roycroft, Munoz, etc

Those are some of the "deadwood" I keep referring to that I hope Bloom gets rid of, this team needs a good roster cleansing.

I don't ant to see anymore of Pallante, Roycroft, Munoz or Fernandez.

I'd DFA all four!

Could happen but I think Pallante hangs on.
Fernandez really fell off a cliff last year.

Sadly you may be right about Pallante.

But to me he's J.A.G, a wasted $3.4M who's blocking someone at AA/AAA who will make league minimum and deserves a shot in this upcoming "re-build" season.

That $3.4M could be better spent.

You guys are messing with my guy. He’s a good number five. He hit the wall. Up till then, he was a reasonable number five. A toss up game.

No he's not BDOG and the wall has fallen on him!

All in all, it's just another brick in the wall
All in all, you're just another brick in the wall

He s u c k s and his near the bottom of MLB starter 5.31 ERA/1.45 WHiP and weak 6.1 SO9 proves it.

J.A.G.

Cut the cord and move on.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:53 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:47 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:39 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 20:49 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:45 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:13 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:19 pm My guess? Pallante gets phased out of the rotation to the BP. Where he has been successful in the past.
He has to be better than Roycroft(barf), Munoz, etc

I keep seeing this cuse but he really wasn't "successful" in the pen' either:

Career as a RP
3.90 ERA
1.53 WHiP (This is the problem, you don't want RP's who come in and give up this extremely high number of Hits/Walks)
.277 .354 .393 .746 hitter slash against

As you can see opponents have a high .354 OB% against Pallante when he's pitched in relief.

He's J.A.G., easily replaced by a kid making ML minimum and that $3.4M allocated elsewhere.

JMO

Hey Rock he may not make the team but I just see him as being light years better than Roycroft, Munoz, etc

Those are some of the "deadwood" I keep referring to that I hope Bloom gets rid of, this team needs a good roster cleansing.

I don't ant to see anymore of Pallante, Roycroft, Munoz or Fernandez.

I'd DFA all four!

Could happen but I think Pallante hangs on.
Fernandez really fell off a cliff last year.

Sadly you may be right about Pallante.

But to me he's J.A.G, a wasted $3.4M who's blocking someone at AA/AAA who will make league minimum and deserves a shot in this upcoming "re-build" season.

That $3.4M could be better spent.

You guys are messing with my guy. He’s a good number five. He hit the wall. Up till then, he was a reasonable number five. A toss up game.

No he's not BDOG and the wall has fallen on him!

All in all, it's just another brick in the wall
All in all, you're just another brick in the wall

He s u c k s and his near the bottom of MLB starter 5.31 ERA/1.45 WHiP and weak 6.1 SO9 proves it.

J.A.G.

Cut the cord and move on.

Brick in the wall applies to us all. If I was in a rebuild, I take him, and still let the farm guys get their share. It’s a rebuild. Sustainability and young producers.

His 5.31 came late in year. As mentioned on fumes.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:58 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:53 am

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:47 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:39 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 20:49 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:45 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:13 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:19 pm My guess? Pallante gets phased out of the rotation to the BP. Where he has been successful in the past.
He has to be better than Roycroft(barf), Munoz, etc

I keep seeing this cuse but he really wasn't "successful" in the pen' either:

Career as a RP
3.90 ERA
1.53 WHiP (This is the problem, you don't want RP's who come in and give up this extremely high number of Hits/Walks)
.277 .354 .393 .746 hitter slash against

As you can see opponents have a high .354 OB% against Pallante when he's pitched in relief.

He's J.A.G., easily replaced by a kid making ML minimum and that $3.4M allocated elsewhere.

JMO

Hey Rock he may not make the team but I just see him as being light years better than Roycroft, Munoz, etc

Those are some of the "deadwood" I keep referring to that I hope Bloom gets rid of, this team needs a good roster cleansing.

I don't ant to see anymore of Pallante, Roycroft, Munoz or Fernandez.

I'd DFA all four!

Could happen but I think Pallante hangs on.
Fernandez really fell off a cliff last year.

Sadly you may be right about Pallante.

But to me he's J.A.G, a wasted $3.4M who's blocking someone at AA/AAA who will make league minimum and deserves a shot in this upcoming "re-build" season.

That $3.4M could be better spent.

You guys are messing with my guy. He’s a good number five. He hit the wall. Up till then, he was a reasonable number five. A toss up game.

No he's not BDOG and the wall has fallen on him!

All in all, it's just another brick in the wall
All in all, you're just another brick in the wall

He s u c k s and his near the bottom of MLB starter 5.31 ERA/1.45 WHiP and weak 6.1 SO9 proves it.

J.A.G.

Cut the cord and move on.

Brick in the wall applies to us all. If I was in a rebuild, I take him, and still let the farm guys get their share. It’s a rebuild. Sustainability and young producers.

His 5.31 came late in year. As mentioned on fumes.

No it didn't come just late in 2025 BDog.

On May 4th after his 7th start he had a 4.75 ERA/5.47 FiP w/a 1.53 WHiP.

Sorry Dog but Pallante sucked all of 2025, he's J.A.G.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:47 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 08:39 am

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 20:49 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:45 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 14:13 pm

rockondlouie wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

Cusecards wrote: ↑20 Nov 2025 13:19 pm My guess? Pallante gets phased out of the rotation to the BP. Where he has been successful in the past.
He has to be better than Roycroft(barf), Munoz, etc

I keep seeing this cuse but he really wasn't "successful" in the pen' either:

Career as a RP
3.90 ERA
1.53 WHiP (This is the problem, you don't want RP's who come in and give up this extremely high number of Hits/Walks)
.277 .354 .393 .746 hitter slash against

As you can see opponents have a high .354 OB% against Pallante when he's pitched in relief.

He's J.A.G., easily replaced by a kid making ML minimum and that $3.4M allocated elsewhere.

JMO

Hey Rock he may not make the team but I just see him as being light years better than Roycroft, Munoz, etc

Those are some of the "deadwood" I keep referring to that I hope Bloom gets rid of, this team needs a good roster cleansing.

I don't ant to see anymore of Pallante, Roycroft, Munoz or Fernandez.

I'd DFA all four!

Could happen but I think Pallante hangs on.
Fernandez really fell off a cliff last year.

Sadly you may be right about Pallante.

But to me he's J.A.G, a wasted $3.4M who's blocking someone at AA/AAA who will make league minimum and deserves a shot in this upcoming "re-build" season.

That $3.4M could be better spent.

You guys are messing with my guy. He’s a good number five. He hit the wall. Up till then, he was a reasonable number five. A toss up game.

I was just thinking this as well. It was his 2nd season as a full time MLB starter and the 162.2 innings he pitched was 41 more innings than he's ever pitched as a professional in one year. He just turned 27; he's shown durability and some pitch making ability coupled with a GB% in the 60s before he dipped under last year to 58.8%. Let him keep working.

Fedde is gone and, presumably, so too is Mikolas. If Bloom can thread the needle and also trade Gray + cash for an appropriate prospect or two, then the fact that Pallante has a durable R arm becomes even more important. At some point innings have to be covered.

Plus, is Liberatore going to build on 25 or fall back?

Yes, AP has his share of issues as the ERA shows, but we just paid another palooka nearly $57 million the past 3 seasons for 5th/6th starter level work. So, in that context, I'd not fret about $3.4 million in what's dubbed as a true rebuilding year.

This is just Rocko (bleep)...again...about one of his least favorite Cardinals.

Here’s my thing, how many of you were making these same comments about Andre last off-season? He finished 2024 on a strong note and looked to be a #3 or #4 starter going forward. There’s no doubt he struggled in 2025, everyone saw that, however, which pitcher is he going forward? Pitchers have bad seasons all the time, very few are completely dominate year in and year out.
That being said, as hard as good pitching is to acquire, you don’t just release Andre after one bad year, especially when the season before he was pretty good. He’s not making that much money yet. Now, if another team wants him bad enough, sure trade him, but that’s not very likely at this point.

All A.P. needs is one more year under the tutelage of the pitching laboratory known as Dusty Blake! Blue Font not working. I say keep him for 3.4 because I am not sure who is ready to fill those innings from the farm and I am not sure what kind of replacement from the market that is available at that price. I don't think he will improve that much, but every team needs a mop up man and I certainly think we may have plenty of work for that position this year, unfortunately!

Same as some others have said, I don’t care what they do with King, but I would keep Pallante. I’m not against bringing in other starters or reclamation projects, but I think we’re going to do that whether Pallante stays on or not. The organization at least knows what they have in Pallante. I mean that in the fact that they know his personality, they know basically what to expect out of him, and they know that they are able to move him in and out of the rotation, if necessary.

With some of these outside guys and reclamation projects, they might want a guaranteed spot in the rotation or else they will sign with another organization who can give them that guarantee. Or, like with a pitcher like Dustin May, they have a big history of injury, or maybe just not being able to put in the amount of innings that we need. I suppose since we have some new guys in developmental who are coming from other organizations, they may have some level of comfortability with free agents who are out there, so that would make sense too.

Basically, what I am saying is that I am good with what the organization decides. It’s not like we’re talking about trading JJ Wetherholt for a backup catcher.

Imperial Capitalist wrote: ↑21 Nov 2025 09:27 am Fedde is gone and, presumably, so too is Mikolas. If Bloom can thread the needle and also trade Gray + cash for an appropriate prospect or two, then the fact that Pallante has a durable R arm becomes even more important. At some point innings have to be covered.

Plus, is Liberatore going to build on 25 or fall back?

Yes, AP has his share of issues as the ERA shows, but we just paid another palooka nearly $57 million the past 3 seasons for 5th/6th starter level work. So, in that context, I'd not fret about $3.4 million in what's dubbed as a true rebuilding year.

This is just Rocko (bleep)...again...about one of his least favorite Cardinals.

"Palooka"...I gotta start using that more.

And yeah. For that price? I don't mind. The only reason why we got Maton for 2 million last year is because his market collapsed and he was flapping in the breeze until the end of spring. You can bet that he'll get more money this year. I hope he does, because he's good at his job.

And also...yeah...this isn't the late 90's/early 00's anymore. You probably aren't going to bring anyone in for 3.5 million who's any better than Pallante to do what will be he likely role next year. And I don't want a rookie doing that job. If we're calling up someone with a future, I want them getting consistent innings. By definition, that's not what a long reliever/spot starter does. Look at any pitcher we've developed who was worth anything over the past 25 years. Ankiel...first full season he was starting. Wainwright...made the team as a middle reliever, so while not starting, he was getting consistent innings. Jaime Garcia starting in his first full season. Lance Lynn and Carlos Martinez...both were mid-season call-ups, but neither was really thrown into the long relief mix. Dakota Hudson...consistent bullpen innings after a mid-season call-up. Flaherty...first full season was as a starter. So was most of his first cup of coffee. Michael Wacha is a bit of the outlier here, since he kinda bounced between the bullpen and the rotation in his first season.

But those guys who were the long men? You're looking at guys like Tyler Lyons, Daniel Ponce De Leon, Austin Gomber, Jake Woodford...guys like that. None of those guys had bright futures. I don't recall hearing anything about Tyler Lyons before he came up. Ponce De Leon was probably best known for getting brained by that line drive that almost killed him--he was not a big prospect. Gomber had SOME press, but it was understood that he was probably not destined to be a great pitcher. Woodford was a former first round pick that just kind-of meh'd his way through the upper minors.

I see nobody right now in our system that I want to put that on...except Pallante. Maybe this time next year you'd say Mathews. But I don't want that spot to go to him this year, or Mautz, or Doyle.

Pallante's job comes down to being the pitching equivalent of a back-up catcher. Not someone you'd want to rely on to do heavy lifting, but the garbage jobs of "hey, can you start tomorrow? Our other guy has the flu" or "Hey...we're down by six/up by six why don't you take these next few innings so we don't blow through our guys that we need for the next few games."

If he comes back to the form that he showed in '24...great. We've got a cost-controlled fifth starter for another season or two. If he doesn't? Eh. Cut him loose. Nobody's saying that he's going to be the first, second, third, or even fourth guy out of the gate next season. But in a season where we're going to have some inexperienced guys taking on more innings than they have before, there's value to having Andre around.