STLtoday.com

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 14:00 pm

45s wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 13:57 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 11:07 am

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 10:50 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 10:16 amMe too, since you asked.
2026 Re-shape roster
2027 Compete for wildcard
2028 Compete for division title, or better
This my expectation, and that's not bottom feeding. I'm prepared to live with what happens until the 27 season AS LONG AS they actively work on re-shaping the roster in the meantime. It's a journey friends.

That's about where I am at too. I might be a bit optimistic with us being competitive in 2027, but I also don't think we are as bad as other teams that have rebuilt. A lot of that depends on this year.

But I also don't want to use this rebuild as excuse for DeWitt to drop the payroll $50 million or more the next 5 years. So, I think we need to cut them some slack for this coming year, and possibly next year, depending on how things work out this year, but also stay on them to spend money when the time comes. They have money to maintain a top third to top ten payroll. They need to get back there soon.

Good observations……with the key words being “when the time comes”

Add that free agent when they can be a difference maker….

Meanwhile a lot of us won’t buy many/any tickets to watch the team struggle. And retaining Oli just reinforces that there’s little reason to be excited yet.

Dewitt has some years of pain to endure with this strategy. Have to hope there’s something left to invest with when/if they decide it’s time.

Not buying tickets is the wisest choice one can make….and, frankly, the only leverage customers have…

No way to know until later, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say Cardinal attendance will improve this season. (I should probably wait and see what moves they make, but I'm feeling bold)

45s wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 14:28 pm

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 14:00 pm

45s wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 13:57 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 13:32 pm

45s wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 11:07 am

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 10:50 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 10:16 amMe too, since you asked.
2026 Re-shape roster
2027 Compete for wildcard
2028 Compete for division title, or better
This my expectation, and that's not bottom feeding. I'm prepared to live with what happens until the 27 season AS LONG AS they actively work on re-shaping the roster in the meantime. It's a journey friends.

That's about where I am at too. I might be a bit optimistic with us being competitive in 2027, but I also don't think we are as bad as other teams that have rebuilt. A lot of that depends on this year.

But I also don't want to use this rebuild as excuse for DeWitt to drop the payroll $50 million or more the next 5 years. So, I think we need to cut them some slack for this coming year, and possibly next year, depending on how things work out this year, but also stay on them to spend money when the time comes. They have money to maintain a top third to top ten payroll. They need to get back there soon.

Good observations……with the key words being “when the time comes”

Add that free agent when they can be a difference maker….

Meanwhile a lot of us won’t buy many/any tickets to watch the team struggle. And retaining Oli just reinforces that there’s little reason to be excited yet.

Dewitt has some years of pain to endure with this strategy. Have to hope there’s something left to invest with when/if they decide it’s time.

Not buying tickets is the wisest choice one can make….and, frankly, the only leverage customers have…

No way to know until later, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say Cardinal attendance will improve this season. (I should probably wait and see what moves they make, but I'm feeling bold)

I don’t think there will be a huge drop in attendance…….

It’s not like the club has much competition for the sports entertainment dollar…

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 19:31 pm No, I think they are back winning a division title by 2028 or 2029.

Bully4you wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 06:59 am Who says differently?
The Brewers and Cubs are clearly better.
The Reds have better talent and management.
The Pirates are on the rise with their farm system and current CY winner.
The only way the Cards can overcome this prediction is to spend.
They don't seem willing to do that.
Heck, they've even managed to brainwash some of the people on CT that they shouldn't spend.

Bully4you wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 06:59 am Who says differently?
The Brewers and Cubs are clearly better.
The Reds have better talent and management.
The Pirates are on the rise with their farm system and current CY winner.
The only way the Cards can overcome this prediction is to spend.
They don't seem willing to do that.
Heck, they've even managed to brainwash some of the people on CT that they shouldn't spend.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 19:31 pm No, I think they are back winning a division title by 2028 or 2029.

Stlcardsblues wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 22:37 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 06:59 am Who says differently?
The Brewers and Cubs are clearly better.
The Reds have better talent and management.
The Pirates are on the rise with their farm system and current CY winner.
The only way the Cards can overcome this prediction is to spend.
They don't seem willing to do that.
Heck, they've even managed to brainwash some of the people on CT that they shouldn't spend.

Completely disagree. After wasting seasons they are building this correctly. Now is not the time to spend. Get the young core in place then spend to fill holes.

juan good eye wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 23:23 pm

Bully4you wrote: ↑16 Nov 2025 06:59 am Who says differently?
The Brewers and Cubs are clearly better.
The Reds have better talent and management.
The Pirates are on the rise with their farm system and current CY winner.
The only way the Cards can overcome this prediction is to spend.
They don't seem willing to do that.
Heck, they've even managed to brainwash some of the people on CT that they shouldn't spend.

One OP was the only requirement to prove your stupidity.

Post less. Read more, read slower.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 22:34 pm

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 19:31 pm No, I think they are back winning a division title by 2028 or 2029.

still too long

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 02:00 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 19:31 pm No, I think they are back winning a division title by 2028 or 2029.

Yeah, sure.
Based on what exactly?
You have Insight into the prospects they plan to acquire, develop and deploy?
These prospects will all be so good they the win the division in 3 years?
Oh, and they have such a grand manager too.
This org has done nothing to suggest they could win anything in 3 years.
This is a mattmitch gut feeling only.
Which that plus $4 might buy you a cup of coffee at a Denny's restaurant.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 03:51 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 02:00 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 19:31 pm No, I think they are back winning a division title by 2028 or 2029.

Yeah, sure.
Based on what exactly?
You have Insight into the prospects they plan to acquire, develop and deploy?
These prospects will all be so good they the win the division in 3 years?
Oh, and they have such a grand manager too.
This org has done nothing to suggest they could win anything in 3 years.
This is a mattmitch gut feeling only.
Which that plus $4 might buy you a cup of coffee at a Denny's restaurant.

Based on the fact that I believe in Bloom's, Cerfolio's, etc. track record of being able to identify, acquire, and develop prospect talent.

And based on the fact that I believe they already possess two key pieces - Weatherholt and Doyle - who have the potential to develop within the next three years (setting the team up for 2029 at the latest) and fill their biggest needs - a young, cost controlled 4+ fWAR position player and a front-of-rotation SP.

They also have the trade equity right now in Donovan, Gray (eating some salary), Arenado (eating some salary) to acquire more AA and AAA prospects who should be on the fast track to getting to the majors and at least being average ML starting players to go along with Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Liberatore, etc.

If/when those pieces fall into place, as long as Bloom can just get an average return by going out and signing FAs in the post-2027 and post-2028 offseasons with the balance of a $170 or $180 million payroll, the Cardinals will have the talent to win the NL Central.

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 04:42 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 03:51 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 02:00 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 19:31 pm No, I think they are back winning a division title by 2028 or 2029.

Yeah, sure.
Based on what exactly?
You have Insight into the prospects they plan to acquire, develop and deploy?
These prospects will all be so good they the win the division in 3 years?
Oh, and they have such a grand manager too.
This org has done nothing to suggest they could win anything in 3 years.
This is a mattmitch gut feeling only.
Which that plus $4 might buy you a cup of coffee at a Denny's restaurant.

Based on the fact that I believe in Bloom's, Cerfolio's, etc. track record of being able to identify, acquire, and develop prospect talent.

And based on the fact that I believe they already possess two key pieces - Weatherholt and Doyle - who have the potential to develop within the next three years (setting the team up for 2029 at the latest) and fill their biggest needs - a young, cost controlled 4+ fWAR position player and a front-of-rotation SP.

They also have the trade equity right now in Donovan, Gray (eating some salary), Arenado (eating some salary) to acquire more AA and AAA prospects who should be on the fast track to getting to the majors and at least being average ML starting players to go along with Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Liberatore, etc.

If/when those pieces fall into place, as long as Bloom can just get an average return by going out and signing FAs in the post-2027 and post-2028 offseasons with the balance of a $170 or $180 million payroll, the Cardinals will have the talent to win the NL Central.

I can dream too.
I can dream that Doyle is a front of the rotation stud.
I can dream that they fleece teams of their budding talent for the likes of Gray and Arenado.
I can dream that Liberatore, Winn, Herrera and Burleson are great players.
Sure can, but that don't make it so.
Meanwhile, the other teams are ahead of us in talent and some in farm system, as well as, management of their respective teams.
No, this will be a longer process than you anticipate when we go full rebuild.

sikeston bulldog2 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 04:49 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 04:42 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 03:51 am

Bully4you wrote: ↑18 Nov 2025 02:00 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Nov 2025 19:31 pm No, I think they are back winning a division title by 2028 or 2029.

Yeah, sure.
Based on what exactly?
You have Insight into the prospects they plan to acquire, develop and deploy?
These prospects will all be so good they the win the division in 3 years?
Oh, and they have such a grand manager too.
This org has done nothing to suggest they could win anything in 3 years.
This is a mattmitch gut feeling only.
Which that plus $4 might buy you a cup of coffee at a Denny's restaurant.

Based on the fact that I believe in Bloom's, Cerfolio's, etc. track record of being able to identify, acquire, and develop prospect talent.

And based on the fact that I believe they already possess two key pieces - Weatherholt and Doyle - who have the potential to develop within the next three years (setting the team up for 2029 at the latest) and fill their biggest needs - a young, cost controlled 4+ fWAR position player and a front-of-rotation SP.

They also have the trade equity right now in Donovan, Gray (eating some salary), Arenado (eating some salary) to acquire more AA and AAA prospects who should be on the fast track to getting to the majors and at least being average ML starting players to go along with Winn, Herrera, Burleson, Liberatore, etc.

If/when those pieces fall into place, as long as Bloom can just get an average return by going out and signing FAs in the post-2027 and post-2028 offseasons with the balance of a $170 or $180 million payroll, the Cardinals will have the talent to win the NL Central.

I can dream too.
I can dream that Doyle is a front of the rotation stud.
I can dream that they fleece teams of their budding talent for the likes of Gray and Arenado.
I can dream that Liberatore, Winn, Herrera and Burleson are great players.
Sure can, but that don't make it so.
Meanwhile, the other teams are ahead of us in talent and some in farm system, as well as, management of their respective teams.
No, this will be a longer process than you anticipate when we go full rebuild.

Dreamer. You’re nothing but a dreamer- Super Tramp.

Actually you two have a good discussion. I’m thinking you both have valid points and the answer is a hybrid of several fine models.