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ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:22 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:17 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:16 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:14 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:12 pm If you trade Donovan and Nado then you either get Gorman at 3B or JJ at 3B and Saggese at 2B.
I keep Donovan unless you can't or won't trade Nado.

I believe the team intends to play Gorman every day at third base in 2026. Sink or swim time for Gorman.

Barf
That very well could be true

No kidding Gorman has proven he can’t swim I don’t know why people need to see him continue to drown before they figure it out. Next season after he sucks again they will say he’s just 26 can’t give up on that power give him another runway sink or swim year

Won’t be that. Especially if he struggles early on defense. The team will pivot early.

If they trade Arenado and Donovan then what?

We get to see Saggese?

Trade Donovan, get rid of Gorman, play Arenado.
He might bounce back some offensively and defensively he’s the best of the lot. And even if his offense struggles he’ll provide more than the useless Gorman.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 16:44 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:14 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:12 pm If you trade Donovan and Nado then you either get Gorman at 3B or JJ at 3B and Saggese at 2B.
I keep Donovan unless you can't or won't trade Nado.

I believe the team intends to play Gorman every day at third base in 2026. Sink or swim time for Gorman.

Gorman sank last year.

But by all means let’s raise that wreck so it can sink again.

Maybe the different FO will not count heavily on him succeeding.
IF he does great, if not move on, somewhere in the middle depends
on the current replacement.

Because you have him only until the end of 2027 and lets face it, this team will not be competitive for at least 2 years. If you don't plan on making him a core player, you will lose him with little or nothing in return.

The Nard wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 07:49 am Unless, of course, you receive that “offer you can’t refuse”.

Donovan has been arguably the cardinal’s best position player. He’s versatile, has a high baseball iq, and is what every competitive team requires to stay so. Trading him at this point is what the pundits like, based on a potential return ( they love to play those what-if games). But you know what you have in Donovan; not so much with prospects that may be returned in a trade

Donovan is now in his baseball prime, and should remain for the next 5 years or so. Try to extend him for that period. Build a team around him.

It sounds like the Cardinals tried to extend him but the response wasn't to their liking. If/when they move Arenado who then Donovan and Wetherholt seem logical at 2B/3B. If they trade Donovan it will likely be for pitching and then who plays third? Gorman?

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 08:54 am

woofy25 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 08:00 am Because he is precisely not a player to build around. He is a complementary piece to star caliber players. The cardinals don’t have the necessary 2-3 star players to build around. If they had them, then Donovan is a no brainer extension. They don’t, so they need to consider dealing him.

Or better yet....go get those star players!

They’re going to have to develop them

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 18:33 pm

The Nard wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 07:49 am Unless, of course, you receive that “offer you can’t refuse”.

Donovan has been arguably the cardinal’s best position player. He’s versatile, has a high baseball iq, and is what every competitive team requires to stay so. Trading him at this point is what the pundits like, based on a potential return ( they love to play those what-if games). But you know what you have in Donovan; not so much with prospects that may be returned in a trade

Donovan is now in his baseball prime, and should remain for the next 5 years or so. Try to extend him for that period. Build a team around him.

It sounds like the Cardinals tried to extend him but the response wasn't to their liking. If/when they move Arenado who then Donovan and Wetherholt seem logical at 2B/3B. If they trade Donovan it will likely be for pitching and then who plays third? Gorman?

Yep for pitching and as for ‘who plays third? Nope, Who plays 1st base and for 3rd… I don’t know

You trade Donovan because you have to give to get. How many tradible commodities do they have.

Willson, Nolan & Gray bring back nothing unless they throw in MAJOR $$$$$!

Gorman. Walker and Noot have minimal value.

The minor league has got to be off limits, (Wetherholt, Doyle, both Baez's Matthews, Rodriguez, etc. Undoubtedly missing someone obvious, lol).

Who ya gonna deal to get anything back?

Cardinalss4Ever wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 19:48 pm You trade Donovan because you have to give to get. How many tradible commodities do they have.

Willson, Nolan & Gray bring back nothing unless they throw in MAJOR $$$$$!

Gorman. Walker and Noot have minimal value.

The minor league has got to be off limits, (Wetherholt, Doyle, both Baez's Matthews, Rodriguez, etc. Undoubtedly missing someone obvious, lol).

Who ya gonna deal to get anything back?

Excellent post ! Now be ready for someone firing back with Why do we need to get anything back ? Don't deal anyone ! lol

Bomber1 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 16:49 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:22 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:17 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:16 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:14 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:12 pm If you trade Donovan and Nado then you either get Gorman at 3B or JJ at 3B and Saggese at 2B.
I keep Donovan unless you can't or won't trade Nado.

I believe the team intends to play Gorman every day at third base in 2026. Sink or swim time for Gorman.

Barf
That very well could be true

No kidding Gorman has proven he can’t swim I don’t know why people need to see him continue to drown before they figure it out. Next season after he sucks again they will say he’s just 26 can’t give up on that power give him another runway sink or swim year

Won’t be that. Especially if he struggles early on defense. The team will pivot early.

If they trade Arenado and Donovan then what?

We get to see Saggese?

Trade Donovan, get rid of Gorman, play Arenado.
He might bounce back some offensively and defensively he’s the best of the lot. And even if his offense struggles he’ll provide more than the useless Gorman.

Well hopefully they plan for it. If that means picking up a UT player who plays a good 3B, that’s cool.

seems crazy to me also

why? no way the trade is worth it
He is one of the best we got.
Why would u trade that?

RichieRichSTL wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 17:43 pm Because you have him only until the end of 2027 and lets face it, this team will not be competitive for at least 2 years. If you don't plan on making him a core player, you will lose him with little or nothing in return.

The only reason that the team won’t be competitive is because DeWitt won’t let them be! He’s too fond of his money and just doesn’t have the fire to do what’s needed. Trading away players like Donovan only proves the point!
Donnie is starting to make a few million dollars, so he has to go. Let’s bring in some hopeful players who don’t cost much yet!
The Cardinals have become the Rays, Pirates, and all the other low budget teams.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 19:54 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 16:49 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:22 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:17 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:16 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:14 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:12 pm If you trade Donovan and Nado then you either get Gorman at 3B or JJ at 3B and Saggese at 2B.
I keep Donovan unless you can't or won't trade Nado.

I believe the team intends to play Gorman every day at third base in 2026. Sink or swim time for Gorman.

Barf
That very well could be true

No kidding Gorman has proven he can’t swim I don’t know why people need to see him continue to drown before they figure it out. Next season after he sucks again they will say he’s just 26 can’t give up on that power give him another runway sink or swim year

Won’t be that. Especially if he struggles early on defense. The team will pivot early.

If they trade Arenado and Donovan then what?

We get to see Saggese?

Trade Donovan, get rid of Gorman, play Arenado.
He might bounce back some offensively and defensively he’s the best of the lot. And even if his offense struggles he’ll provide more than the useless Gorman.

Well hopefully they plan for it. If that means picking up a UT player who plays a good 3B, that’s cool.

The situation at 3B is not all that wonderful. If it was NADO'S market would be zero. Bregman can take a $40 million gamble etc. For those and my hesitation to anoint Saggese a starter at 3B with both his bat and his arm, I'd stick JJ there. If he becomes what many people hope it fits. 2B is better to attempt to find. Fermin can do it if Donovan is moved or split it with Saggese and Gorman or the UT you mentioned.

1. Peak value. His trade value is high. Probably could have gotten more for him in the past but this is the last offseason where his team control gives him elevated trade value.

2. Every contender wants him. There will be a biddinh war for him that will drive his value up even higher. Think a top 5 and a top 15 in a good system or top 3 and a top 10 in a bad system.

3. Bryan Torres. I don't know if his bat will play in the majors. If he can get on base and hit for a little slug, his defensive versatility makes him a great super utility guy like Donovan.

4. The Cardinals aren't signing any longterm contracts before the lockout so forget about any extensions. He's also likely to age out of our next winning window

renostl wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 20:14 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 19:54 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 16:49 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:22 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:17 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:16 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:14 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:12 pm If you trade Donovan and Nado then you either get Gorman at 3B or JJ at 3B and Saggese at 2B.
I keep Donovan unless you can't or won't trade Nado.

I believe the team intends to play Gorman every day at third base in 2026. Sink or swim time for Gorman.

Barf
That very well could be true

No kidding Gorman has proven he can’t swim I don’t know why people need to see him continue to drown before they figure it out. Next season after he sucks again they will say he’s just 26 can’t give up on that power give him another runway sink or swim year

Won’t be that. Especially if he struggles early on defense. The team will pivot early.

If they trade Arenado and Donovan then what?

We get to see Saggese?

Trade Donovan, get rid of Gorman, play Arenado.
He might bounce back some offensively and defensively he’s the best of the lot. And even if his offense struggles he’ll provide more than the useless Gorman.

Well hopefully they plan for it. If that means picking up a UT player who plays a good 3B, that’s cool.

The situation at 3B is not all that wonderful. If it was NADO'S market would be zero. Bregman can take a $40 million gamble etc. For those and my hesitation to anoint Saggese a starter at 3B with both his bat and his arm, I'd stick JJ there. If he becomes what many people hope it fits. 2B is better to attempt to find. Fermin can do it if Donovan is moved or split it with Saggese and Gorman or the UT you mentioned.

In general, JJ’s defensive position should have zero to do with filling the greatest need on the 2026 roster. It should be about where he feels most comfortable (sans SS).

The Nard wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 07:49 am Unless, of course, you receive that “offer you can’t refuse”.

Donovan has been arguably the cardinal’s best position player. He’s versatile, has a high baseball iq, and is what every competitive team requires to stay so. Trading him at this point is what the pundits like, based on a potential return ( they love to play those what-if games). But you know what you have in Donovan; not so much with prospects that may be returned in a trade

Donovan is now in his baseball prime, and should remain for the next 5 years or so. Try to extend him for that period. Build a team around him.

Agree.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑07 Nov 2025 09:14 am

renostl wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 20:14 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 19:54 pm

Bomber1 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 16:49 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:22 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 14:17 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:16 pm

Basil Shabazz wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:14 pm

riff raff wrote: ↑06 Nov 2025 13:12 pm If you trade Donovan and Nado then you either get Gorman at 3B or JJ at 3B and Saggese at 2B.
I keep Donovan unless you can't or won't trade Nado.

I believe the team intends to play Gorman every day at third base in 2026. Sink or swim time for Gorman.

Barf
That very well could be true

No kidding Gorman has proven he can’t swim I don’t know why people need to see him continue to drown before they figure it out. Next season after he sucks again they will say he’s just 26 can’t give up on that power give him another runway sink or swim year

Won’t be that. Especially if he struggles early on defense. The team will pivot early.

If they trade Arenado and Donovan then what?

We get to see Saggese?

Trade Donovan, get rid of Gorman, play Arenado.
He might bounce back some offensively and defensively he’s the best of the lot. And even if his offense struggles he’ll provide more than the useless Gorman.

Well hopefully they plan for it. If that means picking up a UT player who plays a good 3B, that’s cool.

The situation at 3B is not all that wonderful. If it was NADO'S market would be zero. Bregman can take a $40 million gamble etc. For those and my hesitation to anoint Saggese a starter at 3B with both his bat and his arm, I'd stick JJ there. If he becomes what many people hope it fits. 2B is better to attempt to find. Fermin can do it if Donovan is moved or split it with Saggese and Gorman or the UT you mentioned.

In general, JJ’s defensive position should have zero to do with filling the greatest need on the 2026 roster. It should be about where he feels most comfortable (sans SS).

I trust that there is a plan.
Where players play is often influenced by the rest of the roster. You're at least aware as I
if not more.

There is a pretty long list of players brought up for their abilities and they find a position
for them IF they can produce. Short stops, even less than GG SS, can usually move
around successfully as a couple WS teams have demonstrated.

I just see 3B as being in his wheelhouse and a possible need beyond 2026
unless NA is kept or Gorman emerges. You suggested a UT there, if it's between
a UT and JJ I'd stick JJ there.