STLtoday.com

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 22:30 pm If you can’t make money owning a baseball team in baseball-crazy St. Louis, you’ve done something terribly wrong.

+1...apparently even this fanbase has had enough of [shirt]ty baseball and the failure of this ownership.

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:37 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:20 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:20 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

The CNBC valuation article above. It shows $34 million EBITDA.

Great. And what’s the debt service, including both interest and any principal reduction required by the banks?

The local TV contract has doubled since 2006, tics/concessions probably have as well, the National TV contract is considerably higher, and up until just the last couple seasons 3++++mil fans have sat in Busch III every year…..but according to Cranny BDW has issues paying Debt Service on his now 20yr old stadium. Apparently BDW has become one of the worst businessmen on the planet and there is not doubt he should sell the team and eliminate this great burden from his family.

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:46 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:37 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:20 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:20 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

The CNBC valuation article above. It shows $34 million EBITDA.

Great. And what’s the debt service, including both interest and any principal reduction required by the banks?

EBITDA is the earnings calculated after operating costs, including debt service.

Sorry, but that’s just wrong.

Cranny wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 07:54 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:46 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:37 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:20 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:20 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

The CNBC valuation article above. It shows $34 million EBITDA.

Great. And what’s the debt service, including both interest and any principal reduction required by the banks?

EBITDA is the earnings calculated after operating costs, including debt service.

Sorry, but that’s just wrong.

Cranny…..WHO CARES….the stadium is 20yrs old and so is the financing schedule….interest rates were rock bottom a few years ago so if this was such a burden perhaps refinancing was in order…….you come on here and blame a 20yr old financing deal for BDW supposed issues??? ALL REVENUE streams have dramatically increased over that period. The only issue is that BDW let his team go to poo and 1mil butts are missing from Busch because he won’t sustain his payroll. That’s on BDW not some 17mil reduction in a local TV contract

Goldfan wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:04 am

Cranny wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 07:54 am

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:46 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:37 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 21:20 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:20 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 19:02 pm

renostl wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 16:32 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

That's also is not inflation adjusted with an investment that
is not liquid. His unrealized gain will be less.

Bill is okay, he doesn't need a fund me campaign. But 2 things can
be accurate at the same time. It has may not been his best 30 year
investment.

The total inflation over 30 years depends on the specific period, but for 1995 to 2025, it's a cumulative increase of about 112.6%, meaning that money today is worth about 56% of what it was 30 years ago.

Dewitt sold the garages for $30 million, making the total investment $90 million. Adjusted for inflation, that’s $200 million. That’s still over 1000% return. On top of the $30 million they are claiming in profit per year (with no supporting financial documentation.)

Who’s claiming $30 million in “profit”?

The CNBC valuation article above. It shows $34 million EBITDA.

Great. And what’s the debt service, including both interest and any principal reduction required by the banks?

EBITDA is the earnings calculated after operating costs, including debt service.

Sorry, but that’s just wrong.

Cranny…..WHO CARES….the stadium is 20yrs old and so is the financing schedule….interest rates were rock bottom a few years ago so if this was such a burden perhaps refinancing was in order…….you come on here and blame a 20yr old financing deal for BDW supposed issues??? ALL REVENUE streams have dramatically increased over that period. The only issue is that BDW let his team go to poo and 1mil butts are missing from Busch because he won’t sustain his payroll. That’s on BDW not some 17mil reduction in a local TV contract

The decline of actual attendance is an issue. The lack of an exciting, winning team is part of it. But not all of it.

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 14:57 pm

woofy25 wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 14:33 pm Why are we rehashing comments from 5 years ago?

Does it matter when he was quoted??
If your owner says that MLB is a poor income source and he’s constantly whining about payroll, revenue, stadium financing….
Perhaps your owner shouldn’t have his capital tied up in a business that isn’t returning his needs.
This is an Ego play among the multi billionaires unless it was a family business passed down through generations…..
They get into this game for competition and winning and perhaps Cap Appreciation….of which BDW has most likely realized his max lifetime return so, perhaps its time to pass this Pro Sports Civic entity to deeper pockets who want to compete and can afford it and who dont really required an annual income stream from it.

Because the quote has been the subject of about 3000 threads in the last five years. The topic is getting created as if this is new information.

Cranny wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 15:08 pm

woofy25 wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 14:33 pm Why are we rehashing comments from 5 years ago?

I guess because someone started this thread.

ummm, good one?

woofy25 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 14:57 pm

woofy25 wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 14:33 pm Why are we rehashing comments from 5 years ago?

Does it matter when he was quoted??
If your owner says that MLB is a poor income source and he’s constantly whining about payroll, revenue, stadium financing….
Perhaps your owner shouldn’t have his capital tied up in a business that isn’t returning his needs.
This is an Ego play among the multi billionaires unless it was a family business passed down through generations…..
They get into this game for competition and winning and perhaps Cap Appreciation….of which BDW has most likely realized his max lifetime return so, perhaps its time to pass this Pro Sports Civic entity to deeper pockets who want to compete and can afford it and who dont really required an annual income stream from it.

Because the quote has been the subject of about 3000 threads in the last five years. The topic is getting created as if this is new information.

Obviously it speaks to the mindset of the current owner. If he and his partners require income and he states that MLB is a poor income source then why is he involved???

I'm sure most find this topic boring, but as a CPA/CFO I find this thoroughly fascinating watching some posters conflate and misunderstand the difference between profits, cash flow, ROI, appreciation, and unrealized gains. Fun stuff. I think my favorite was the poster that defined EBIDTA backwards.

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:50 am I'm sure most find this topic boring, but as a CPA/CFO I find this thoroughly fascinating watching some posters conflate and misunderstand the difference between profits, cash flow, ROI, appreciation, and unrealized gains. Fun stuff. I think my favorite was the poster that defined EBIDTA backwards.

Unless BDW opens the books arguing those specifics is a waste of time.
The more than doubling of Revenue since the stadium financing originated with substantial decline in payroll the last couple seasons and the misguided claim that a 17mil reduction(75-58) causes BDW to struggle making his debt service payments and negates sustaining payroll inline with stated revenue increases are valid points

Goldfan wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:57 am

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:50 am I'm sure most find this topic boring, but as a CPA/CFO I find this thoroughly fascinating watching some posters conflate and misunderstand the difference between profits, cash flow, ROI, appreciation, and unrealized gains. Fun stuff. I think my favorite was the poster that defined EBIDTA backwards.

Unless BDW opens the books arguing those specifics is a waste of time.
The more than doubling of Revenue since the stadium financing originated with substantial decline in payroll the last couple seasons and the misguided claim that a 17mil reduction(75-58) causes BDW to struggle making his debt service payments and negates sustaining payroll inline with stated revenue increases are valid points

Very true that all of this is speculation without open books. But nothing you’ve outlined here passes the smell test.

Goldfan wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:37 am

woofy25 wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:24 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 14:57 pm

woofy25 wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 14:33 pm Why are we rehashing comments from 5 years ago?

Does it matter when he was quoted??
If your owner says that MLB is a poor income source and he’s constantly whining about payroll, revenue, stadium financing….
Perhaps your owner shouldn’t have his capital tied up in a business that isn’t returning his needs.
This is an Ego play among the multi billionaires unless it was a family business passed down through generations…..
They get into this game for competition and winning and perhaps Cap Appreciation….of which BDW has most likely realized his max lifetime return so, perhaps its time to pass this Pro Sports Civic entity to deeper pockets who want to compete and can afford it and who dont really required an annual income stream from it.

Because the quote has been the subject of about 3000 threads in the last five years. The topic is getting created as if this is new information.

Obviously it speaks to the mindset of the current owner. If he and his partners require income and he states that MLB is a poor income source then why is he involved???

It speaks to his mindset from five years ago. Maybe he feels differently today, maybe he doesn't. It would make sense to bring up the topic if he had said something similar more recently, say during the end of season press conference. It certainly seems the business is less profitable today than it was five years ago, so maybe he feels even stronger in that opinion.
People make investments for all sorts of reasons, not only cashflow. Some are willing to be in the red on a yearly basis with an expectation the value of the business will increase over time that will more than make up for the yearly losses. Happens all the time. Different investments have different exit strategies. I don't know BDW's motive for owning the team. I do know a couple years ago, he mentioned in an offseason press conference that they would have to consider going into the red in order to improve the big league roster. However, that offseason not see major investment, if memory serves.

WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 08:50 am I'm sure most find this topic boring, but as a CPA/CFO I find this thoroughly fascinating watching some posters conflate and misunderstand the difference between profits, cash flow, ROI, appreciation, and unrealized gains. Fun stuff. I think my favorite was the poster that defined EBIDTA backwards.

+1

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

Thanks for the link. Has net profit been made public after ITDA?

If Gussie's kids had kept it they and/or their kids would have significantly more today assuming they didn't run it into the ground which is possible.

No one cares about the excuses to attempt to justify turning the STL Cardinals into the STL Pirates, an ownership that also demonstrates they are not pushing to win post season games. Please sell the team since anyone can play the poor is we STL Pirates owner role and perhaps also new owner will not insult the fans that gave them 3 mil a year. But they likely wont as it is the center piece to all the other money being made not included as part of the team, in ball park village and other real estate.

ScotchMIrish wrote: ↑04 Nov 2025 12:00 pm

Midrange Jay wrote: ↑03 Nov 2025 12:08 pm The Cardinals are valued at $2.5 billion.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/04/11/cn ... -2025.html

They were purchased, along with the 2 stadium garages, for $150 million.
https://thisdayinbaseball.com/1995-anh ... -st-louis/

That’s an over 1500% unrealized gain.

Thanks for the link. Has net profit been made public after ITDA?

If Gussie's kids had kept it they and/or their kids would have significantly more today assuming they didn't run it into the ground which is possible.

Net profit will never be made public, by design.