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Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 22:21 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 20:50 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 20:36 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 20:23 pm I get the sarcasm everyone is throwing out there, but the OP did say “at the right price”…assuming relatively cheap.

The players (and exec) you guys cite are pretty terrible, while RH was the best homegrown player we’ve produced in a decade. He’s at an age where he can still be part of the future and serve as a good mentor to the young BP kids too.

Bringing back a solid and accomplished player with a ton of high leverage experience isn’t exactly rewinding the clock to an era of bad personnel.

It would be terrible use of resources he will get at least 5 million and with Dewitt keeping the purse strings tight they need to spend what they do better than gambling on a closer they don’t need. It needs to be spent on starting pitching and maybe two or three maton type signings instead of one helsley signing.

What if he would come back for something close to Maton money? I think he was one of the rare players that wanted to be a Cardinal for life. He doesn’t have to be anointed closer either, unless performance dictates. That should actually be part of the agreement.

He just turned 31 a few months ago and though he had a down year, if you look at his track record, he’s had some pretty great seasons other than just 2024 and has been less volatile than most other relievers.

I get the perspective from those who don’t want him back, but at the right price, it wouldn’t some absurd move like bringing back Fedde or Mikolas.

There’s zero chance he is signed for Maton money. He will get 5+ million easily and that’s not worth the gamble when the cards did just fine without him as the closer and need to sign starting pitching and other holes. I guess if it was just 1 or 2 million but zero chance that happens. If they’re gambling on players it should be on starters like Beuhler or others that are coming off injuries who the team actually needs

I didn’t realize Maton signed so cheap! I figured he was around 5 mil himself. Guess I overestimate reliever salaries because I thought 5 mil for a higher end reliever would be a steal, or at least considered team friendly.

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 08:14 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 07:41 am Under the assumption the price is right, yes I would. I know he was not as good in NY but even this year with the cards he was good enough. The question would be what role. Ideally he could shift from closer to set up to high leverage situations at any point. With just a tweak or two our bull pen could be very good. He could be a valuable piece. Again at the right price.

The right price? I think we will be surprised with what he gets in open market. I don’t really expect him to be at right price for Cards.

I think you'll be shocked at how little he gets. If he couldn't even get innings in the terrible Mets bullpen after he flopped, I don't know how he's going to fit anywhere else. He's a guy who needs another pitch. Like a splitter or an off-speed pitch. That slider is totally unreliable. He can't spot it consistently, and often it doesn't break very much. And his fastball doesn't have enough movement and was getting rocked.

From what I’ve read the top of his range is $40-$45 million over 3 years. This is after his performance in NY. The bottom is a one year deal with one year option. From reading posts on here it appears many believe he will go for peanuts. I think he will be in the AAV of around $15 million regardless of multiple years of one year.

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:40 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 08:14 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 07:41 am Under the assumption the price is right, yes I would. I know he was not as good in NY but even this year with the cards he was good enough. The question would be what role. Ideally he could shift from closer to set up to high leverage situations at any point. With just a tweak or two our bull pen could be very good. He could be a valuable piece. Again at the right price.

The right price? I think we will be surprised with what he gets in open market. I don’t really expect him to be at right price for Cards.

I think you'll be shocked at how little he gets. If he couldn't even get innings in the terrible Mets bullpen after he flopped, I don't know how he's going to fit anywhere else. He's a guy who needs another pitch. Like a splitter or an off-speed pitch. That slider is totally unreliable. He can't spot it consistently, and often it doesn't break very much. And his fastball doesn't have enough movement and was getting rocked.

From what I’ve read the top of his range is $40-$45 million over 3 years. This is after his performance in NY. The bottom is a one year deal with one year option. From reading posts on here it appears many believe he will go for peanuts. I think he will be in the AAV of around $15 million regardless of multiple years of one year.

I'll believe that when I see it. He's no longer a freak. There are guys throwing 100 all over the place and many with better movement or secondary pitches. And he's coming off a bad year.

No,

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:47 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:40 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 08:14 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 07:41 am Under the assumption the price is right, yes I would. I know he was not as good in NY but even this year with the cards he was good enough. The question would be what role. Ideally he could shift from closer to set up to high leverage situations at any point. With just a tweak or two our bull pen could be very good. He could be a valuable piece. Again at the right price.

The right price? I think we will be surprised with what he gets in open market. I don’t really expect him to be at right price for Cards.

I think you'll be shocked at how little he gets. If he couldn't even get innings in the terrible Mets bullpen after he flopped, I don't know how he's going to fit anywhere else. He's a guy who needs another pitch. Like a splitter or an off-speed pitch. That slider is totally unreliable. He can't spot it consistently, and often it doesn't break very much. And his fastball doesn't have enough movement and was getting rocked.

From what I’ve read the top of his range is $40-$45 million over 3 years. This is after his performance in NY. The bottom is a one year deal with one year option. From reading posts on here it appears many believe he will go for peanuts. I think he will be in the AAV of around $15 million regardless of multiple years of one year.

I'll believe that when I see it. He's no longer a freak. There are guys throwing 100 all over the place and many with better movement or secondary pitches. And he's coming off a bad year.

Ditto

I've been seeing closer to $48M/5-6 yrs.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 10:11 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:47 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:40 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 08:14 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 07:41 am Under the assumption the price is right, yes I would. I know he was not as good in NY but even this year with the cards he was good enough. The question would be what role. Ideally he could shift from closer to set up to high leverage situations at any point. With just a tweak or two our bull pen could be very good. He could be a valuable piece. Again at the right price.

The right price? I think we will be surprised with what he gets in open market. I don’t really expect him to be at right price for Cards.

I think you'll be shocked at how little he gets. If he couldn't even get innings in the terrible Mets bullpen after he flopped, I don't know how he's going to fit anywhere else. He's a guy who needs another pitch. Like a splitter or an off-speed pitch. That slider is totally unreliable. He can't spot it consistently, and often it doesn't break very much. And his fastball doesn't have enough movement and was getting rocked.

From what I’ve read the top of his range is $40-$45 million over 3 years. This is after his performance in NY. The bottom is a one year deal with one year option. From reading posts on here it appears many believe he will go for peanuts. I think he will be in the AAV of around $15 million regardless of multiple years of one year.

I'll believe that when I see it. He's no longer a freak. There are guys throwing 100 all over the place and many with better movement or secondary pitches. And he's coming off a bad year.

Ditto

I've been seeing closer to $48M/5-6 yrs.

The Mets won't be in that line. And other teams saw how bad he was. $48 million for that?

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 10:44 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 10:11 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:47 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:40 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 08:14 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 07:41 am Under the assumption the price is right, yes I would. I know he was not as good in NY but even this year with the cards he was good enough. The question would be what role. Ideally he could shift from closer to set up to high leverage situations at any point. With just a tweak or two our bull pen could be very good. He could be a valuable piece. Again at the right price.

The right price? I think we will be surprised with what he gets in open market. I don’t really expect him to be at right price for Cards.

I think you'll be shocked at how little he gets. If he couldn't even get innings in the terrible Mets bullpen after he flopped, I don't know how he's going to fit anywhere else. He's a guy who needs another pitch. Like a splitter or an off-speed pitch. That slider is totally unreliable. He can't spot it consistently, and often it doesn't break very much. And his fastball doesn't have enough movement and was getting rocked.

From what I’ve read the top of his range is $40-$45 million over 3 years. This is after his performance in NY. The bottom is a one year deal with one year option. From reading posts on here it appears many believe he will go for peanuts. I think he will be in the AAV of around $15 million regardless of multiple years of one year.

I'll believe that when I see it. He's no longer a freak. There are guys throwing 100 all over the place and many with better movement or secondary pitches. And he's coming off a bad year.

Ditto

I've been seeing closer to $48M/5-6 yrs.

The Mets won't be in that line. And other teams saw how bad he was. $48 million for that?

Not sure why some in this thread want him back, he's NOT going to come at some bargain basement price.

I can see him getting $25-30M/3 yrs but certainly NOT from the Cardinals.

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 10:56 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 10:44 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 10:11 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:47 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:40 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 08:14 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 07:41 am Under the assumption the price is right, yes I would. I know he was not as good in NY but even this year with the cards he was good enough. The question would be what role. Ideally he could shift from closer to set up to high leverage situations at any point. With just a tweak or two our bull pen could be very good. He could be a valuable piece. Again at the right price.

The right price? I think we will be surprised with what he gets in open market. I don’t really expect him to be at right price for Cards.

I think you'll be shocked at how little he gets. If he couldn't even get innings in the terrible Mets bullpen after he flopped, I don't know how he's going to fit anywhere else. He's a guy who needs another pitch. Like a splitter or an off-speed pitch. That slider is totally unreliable. He can't spot it consistently, and often it doesn't break very much. And his fastball doesn't have enough movement and was getting rocked.

From what I’ve read the top of his range is $40-$45 million over 3 years. This is after his performance in NY. The bottom is a one year deal with one year option. From reading posts on here it appears many believe he will go for peanuts. I think he will be in the AAV of around $15 million regardless of multiple years of one year.

I'll believe that when I see it. He's no longer a freak. There are guys throwing 100 all over the place and many with better movement or secondary pitches. And he's coming off a bad year.

Ditto

I've been seeing closer to $48M/5-6 yrs.

The Mets won't be in that line. And other teams saw how bad he was. $48 million for that?

Not sure why some in this thread want him back, he's NOT going to come at some bargain basement price.

I can see him getting $25-30M/3 yrs but certainly NOT from the Cardinals.

This. They aren't going to pay him what it would take to sign him so that he can save 1/3 of their 75 wins.

I'd like to say yes because I really like Ryan Helsley as a player, but we are a year or two from being competitive, and he is in the market for probably the biggest contract he's ever going to get. He'd be smart to take the biggest offer he gets and St. Louis has no reason to be offering a bunch of money like that to a 31 year old reliever.

Rosie's Rule wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 00:25 am It’s a fair question with an equally fair question as the answer- if the Cards are trying to rebuild with Riley O’Brien and Svanson in the closer and set up roles why bring Maton or Helsley back at any price?

This is my play IF Helsley’s market doesn’t develop and he wants a one-year prove it deal. If Helsley has a market stay out of it.

Let’s for this example say Helsley’s poor finish results in him taking a 1 year 8 million deal. Make Helsley the closer. I would also bring in Maton on a cheap deal. They have a ton of innings and doing so has no impact on blocking Svanson or O’Brien. What it does is allow you not to rush arms from the minors and gives you a chance to use Leahy in the rotation.

They currently have a rotation of Libby, McGreevy and Pallante. There are a ton of innings to cover there.

Part two would be how you use Svanson and O’Brien. With Helsley as the closer, under this plan Romero and Maton close zero games. You use the games where Helsley isn’t available to use the closer of the future whether that be Svanson or O’Brien. This allows them to learn to close behind a real closer. Then flip Maton,Helsley and Romero at the deadline.

This means you sign Helsley (again if he will do it) for 8 million but only pay about 6 million of it and get three trade pieces. It gives some of your prospects more time to develop in the minors, then call them up in August.

What part of this is not a win-win for the overall development of the team’s future.

How if Helsley gets a three year offer, stay away from trying to bring him back as that does mess up what to this point has been a poorly done youth movement.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 11:04 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 10:56 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 10:44 am

rockondlouie wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 10:11 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:47 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:40 am

icon wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 08:14 am

Jatalk wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 07:41 am Under the assumption the price is right, yes I would. I know he was not as good in NY but even this year with the cards he was good enough. The question would be what role. Ideally he could shift from closer to set up to high leverage situations at any point. With just a tweak or two our bull pen could be very good. He could be a valuable piece. Again at the right price.

The right price? I think we will be surprised with what he gets in open market. I don’t really expect him to be at right price for Cards.

I think you'll be shocked at how little he gets. If he couldn't even get innings in the terrible Mets bullpen after he flopped, I don't know how he's going to fit anywhere else. He's a guy who needs another pitch. Like a splitter or an off-speed pitch. That slider is totally unreliable. He can't spot it consistently, and often it doesn't break very much. And his fastball doesn't have enough movement and was getting rocked.

From what I’ve read the top of his range is $40-$45 million over 3 years. This is after his performance in NY. The bottom is a one year deal with one year option. From reading posts on here it appears many believe he will go for peanuts. I think he will be in the AAV of around $15 million regardless of multiple years of one year.

I'll believe that when I see it. He's no longer a freak. There are guys throwing 100 all over the place and many with better movement or secondary pitches. And he's coming off a bad year.

Ditto

I've been seeing closer to $48M/5-6 yrs.

The Mets won't be in that line. And other teams saw how bad he was. $48 million for that?

Not sure why some in this thread want him back, he's NOT going to come at some bargain basement price.

I can see him getting $25-30M/3 yrs but certainly NOT from the Cardinals.

This. They aren't going to pay him what it would take to sign him so that he can save 1/3 of their 75 wins.

Young RP's can be especially volatile but I really liked what we saw from M. Svanson and could see him getting first shot at closing.

Svanson 8/1 - Seasons End:

20 G
31 1/3 IP
43 KO's
0.86 ERA
0.89 WHiP

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 21:07 pm

icon wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 20:55 pm

stanw wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 19:49 pm I think his valve took a nose dive after he bombed in New York. If the price was right would you take a chance to resign him this winter.

No! You move on. Guys who throw 100 are a dime a dozen now. He's almost past prime and had 1 outlier good year. The pen was not the problem this year.

2022 - 1.25 ERA and 0.74 WHIP, an all-star appearance and 12th in CY Young voting. Was that the outlier, or when he broke the Card single season save record in 2024? Or did you mean 2023 when he had a 2.45 ERA.

Career ERA under 3 in 7 seasons, yet he only had 1 good outlier?

You are correct, sir! But who needs facts when you want narrative?

stanw wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 19:49 pm I think his valve took a nose dive after he bombed in New York. If the price was right would you take a chance to resign him this winter.

He’s washed.
Pass.

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:19 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 08:56 am Going forward please leave the weak minded and low talent types off the team
Great start to fixing this mess

At least you cite the mental aspect of his game as to why you wouldn’t want him back.

Everyone else seems hung up on the money when the OP clearly stated “at the right price” due to an assumed tanked value.

Not mentally tough…..it was evident here if you paid attention and if the Mets stinky blowup choke job didn’t convince everyone …..I’m not sure what will
The days of this org signing guys because they’re available should be done. Sign talented WINNERS. That’s it. End of debate

Goldfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 16:51 pm

CorneliusWolfe wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 09:19 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑13 Oct 2025 08:56 am Going forward please leave the weak minded and low talent types off the team
Great start to fixing this mess

At least you cite the mental aspect of his game as to why you wouldn’t want him back.

Everyone else seems hung up on the money when the OP clearly stated “at the right price” due to an assumed tanked value.

Not mentally tough…..it was evident here if you paid attention and if the Mets stinky blowup choke job didn’t convince everyone …..I’m not sure what will
The days of this org signing guys because they’re available should be done. Sign talented WINNERS. That’s it. End of debate

No one knows if you have a real winner until they prove themselves in the playoffs. We’ll never know because everyone wants inexperienced prospects. By the time they gain the necessary experience, it’ll be time for free agency, and they can go put their experience to use and win with another team and we’ll be left dreaming of the supposed next big thing.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 20:07 pm

Dicktar2023 wrote: ↑12 Oct 2025 20:01 pm Yes. And don't forget miles mikolas is a FA. And Bloom is looking for a GM...so how about Mo? He's looking a job.

It's important to keep doing the same thing over and over again, no matter the results.

Bring back fedde also I hear he will be available

Fedde needs to find a new line of work