Very good pitching is stil the way to go

[2ninr]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Playoff baseball is a different game. Hot hitting involves the baseball Gods. They're really hard to beat. But if they're off doing something else, good pitching and defense seems to win.

But not at the complete neglect of offense. Still has to be better than leauge average. Yea a top 5 pitching, top 5 defense, and a top 15 offense may get lucky and win a WS but not if the offensive production is 29-30 like the current Cardinals roster

We had 3 guys that didn't hit as well as Wainright. That's a problem not even the baseball Gods can fix.

Hererra/Crooks will replace Pages and Wetherholt will help but they have do add legit power somewhere and I would have Scott as a 4th OF. Payrol is what’s holding this roster back. Until they can spend it’s impossible to see a WS contenting formula

I agree 100%. That $ has to be spent strategically like we used to. First we have to get back to developing most of our pitching. I have guarded optimism about some of the pitching in the system right now. We have to get decent prospects for the guys we move. But you can't be paying for pitching the way we have been. It doesn't leave money to plug those holes. Your roster winds up how it is right now.

Smart spending is important but the payroll needs to go back to the 2006-2011 level it top 11 which is over $200m currently. Otherwise they will fall short

There's no reason we can't get back there. But the fans have to come back too. They drove them off. They need a plan to get them back. I suggest winning. We have a lot riding on Bloom.

[Youboughtit]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It’s is another way of saying that pitching will eventually outplay hitting. I say- offense wins games, defense wins championships. Same theory.

Playoff baseball is a different game. Hot hitting involves the baseball Gods. They're really hard to beat. But if they're off doing something else, good pitching and defense seems to win.

But not at the complete neglect of offense. Still has to be better than leauge average. Yea a top 5 pitching, top 5 defense, and a top 15 offense may get lucky and win a WS but not if the offensive production is 29-30 like the current Cardinals roster

We had 3 guys that didn't hit as well as Wainright. That's a problem not even the baseball Gods can fix.

Hererra/Crooks will replace Pages and Wetherholt will help but they have do add legit power somewhere and I would have Scott as a 4th OF. Payrol is what’s holding this roster back. Until they can spend it’s impossible to see a WS contenting formula

I agree 100%. That $ has to be spent strategically like we used to. First we have to get back to developing most of our pitching. I have guarded optimism about some of the pitching in the system right now. We have to get decent prospects for the guys we move. But you can't be paying for pitching the way we have been. It doesn't leave money to plug those holes. Your roster winds up how it is right now.

Smart spending is important but the payroll needs to go back to the 2006-2011 level it top 11 which is over $200m currently. Otherwise they will fall short

There's no reason we can't get back there. But the fans have to come back too. They drove them off. They need a plan to get them back. I suggest winning. We have a lot riding on Bloom.

Harder to get back than loose in this economy. It will take spending back in the $200m range for several years for me to return. Draft and develop can only go so far. Winning will require a change in attitude from ownership

[CCard]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

Indeed sir. You're preaching to the choir here. I've been saying that for a long time. If you ain't got pitching then you ain't got a championship.

[ramfandan]

seems like there may be a change in pitching philosophy moving forward. Previously the Cardinals took the safer type guys who may make the majors rather than the high Velo type guys . Less risk with the former types but also less reward than when a high velo type makes it .
Will be watching what types they draft moving forward. Matt Pierpont will have a say . Seattle sure has good pitchers.

[Looksgoodonyouthough]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

Agree that upgrading the rotation is the best path back to real contention.
However....I don’t see this realistically happening in 2026.
Maybe 2027?
This year Libby stepped up. Hopefully he has arrived as a solid starter?
McGreevy was solid in the 2nd half.
If Gray stays he’s very solid for 2026 but how much beyond that??
For the start of 2026 that leaves 2 spots open.
And I also agree with you on not spending big $$ on FA’s this offseason.
Is Mathews ready to step up in ST?
Leahy(who I like) could be in the mix?
I do like the potential for later in 2026/2027(Doyle, Henderson , etc) so fingers crossed.
Taking a flyer on a veteran one year deal could also be in the mix?
I think we have to be patient in 2026.

Agree with you Cuse, nothing wrong with being patient if we can see the progress in the minors investment, international market and how Bloom utilizes the current roster to reshape the 27 and 28 seasons.

[Cusecards]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

Agree that upgrading the rotation is the best path back to real contention.
However....I don’t see this realistically happening in 2026.
Maybe 2027?
This year Libby stepped up. Hopefully he has arrived as a solid starter?
McGreevy was solid in the 2nd half.
If Gray stays he’s very solid for 2026 but how much beyond that??
For the start of 2026 that leaves 2 spots open.
And I also agree with you on not spending big $$ on FA’s this offseason.
Is Mathews ready to step up in ST?
Leahy(who I like) could be in the mix?
I do like the potential for later in 2026/2027(Doyle, Henderson , etc) so fingers crossed.
Taking a flyer on a veteran one year deal could also be in the mix?
I think we have to be patient in 2026.

Agree with you Cuse, nothing wrong with being patient if we can see the progress in the minors investment, international market and how Bloom utilizes the current roster to reshape the 27 and 28 seasons.

Thanks
Patience is a virtue after all.
Go Cards!

[CCard]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

How’s it working for the Pirates? A top 10 offense is also needed. Specifically Slug. Cardinals were last in MLB

Brewers aren't even in the top 10 in slug. You have to have that pitching and then hopefully get a few guys that can score or drive in runs. I don't think the Cards run near enough. Also, they should use the hit and run and make contact more. Too many strikeouts. That said, they absolutely must get better pitching wise or it won't matter.

[LCA1951]

Trevor Bauer

[BrummerStealsHome]

Bats for the season, arms for the playoffs.

I hadn’t really heard it put that way, and I can’t say I don’t buy into the premise, but wouldn’t the good arms have to already be around for the regular season?

Unless you’re talking about being very aggressive at the deadline in adding arms, but no guarantees you’ll get your guys.

It's an oversimplification, as pithy sayings are wont to be. It's still a pithy saying and I'm going to add it to my lexicon. Thanks jcgmoi.

[BrummerStealsHome]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

How’s it working for the Pirates? A top 10 offense is also needed. Specifically Slug. Cardinals were last in MLB

To be fair, the Pirates were dead last in MLB in runs scored. I think the salient point here is that a team with top tier pitching and average offense will fare better in the post season than teams with top teir offense and average pitching. But the OP takes it a step further, and history justifies this, that while regular season success requires a quality stable of 4-6 starters, one can get by in the postseason with 2 top level starters, and 1-2 above average. I always go back to the '87 Twins. That had one Cy Young caliber starter (Viola), a very good number 2 (Blyleven), and a below average but serviceable number 3 (Straker). They had jack [shirt] after that, but it was enough to carry them past the Tigers and Cardinals. And they had a top level closer.

On a side note, in looking up Straker's name, I learned something I never knew or had long forgotten. Steve Carlton pitched for the Minnesota Twins, as a spot starter and reliever for the entire season. He stunk and was not included on the postseason roster, but it would have been quite a hoot if Carlton had appeared one more time against his original team.

[jcgmoi]

Thanks jcgmoi.

You're welcome.

You're right about it being an oversimplification but it's still good guidance.

[Youboughtit]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

How’s it working for the Pirates? A top 10 offense is also needed. Specifically Slug. Cardinals were last in MLB

To be fair, the Pirates were dead last in MLB in runs scored. I think the salient point here is that a team with top tier pitching and average offense will fare better in the post season than teams with top teir offense and average pitching. But the OP takes it a step further, and history justifies this, that while regular season success requires a quality stable of 4-6 starters, one can get by in the postseason with 2 top level starters, and 1-2 above average. I always go back to the '87 Twins. That had one Cy Young caliber starter (Viola), a very good number 2 (Blyleven), and a below average but serviceable number 3 (Straker). They had jack [shirt] after that, but it was enough to carry them past the Tigers and Cardinals. And they had a top level closer.

On a side note, in looking up Straker's name, I learned something I never knew or had long forgotten. Steve Carlton pitched for the Minnesota Twins, as a spot starter and reliever for the entire season. He stunk and was not included on the postseason roster, but it would have been quite a hoot if Carlton had appeared one more time against his original team.

The Cardinals offense is just as bad. 29 in HR and Slug. Not to mention the Pirates owner has said he is going to increase payroll
On offense. I think they finish above the Cardinals next season

[Youboughtit]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

How’s it working for the Pirates? A top 10 offense is also needed. Specifically Slug. Cardinals were last in MLB

Brewers aren't even in the top 10 in slug. You have to have that pitching and then hopefully get a few guys that can score or drive in runs. I don't think the Cards run near enough. Also, they should use the hit and run and make contact more. Too many strikeouts. That said, they absolutely must get better pitching wise or it won't matter.

Let’s see if the Brewers win before saying that formula is the way for small markets to win a WS. I think it’s a way to be good but still fall short

[CCard]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

How’s it working for the Pirates? A top 10 offense is also needed. Specifically Slug. Cardinals were last in MLB

Brewers aren't even in the top 10 in slug. You have to have that pitching and then hopefully get a few guys that can score or drive in runs. I don't think the Cards run near enough. Also, they should use the hit and run and make contact more. Too many strikeouts. That said, they absolutely must get better pitching wise or it won't matter.

Let’s see if the Brewers win before saying that formula is the way for small markets to win a WS. I think it’s a way to be good but still fall short

That "formula" was proven in 1982. But to be honest that "formula" is baseball. Field good, pitch good, score runs by hook or crook. And that brand is much more exciting that waiting for a 3 run homer.

[Youboughtit]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

How’s it working for the Pirates? A top 10 offense is also needed. Specifically Slug. Cardinals were last in MLB

Brewers aren't even in the top 10 in slug. You have to have that pitching and then hopefully get a few guys that can score or drive in runs. I don't think the Cards run near enough. Also, they should use the hit and run and make contact more. Too many strikeouts. That said, they absolutely must get better pitching wise or it won't matter.

Let’s see if the Brewers win before saying that formula is the way for small markets to win a WS. I think it’s a way to be good but still fall short

That "formula" was proven in 1982. But to be honest that "formula" is baseball. Field good, pitch good, score runs by hook or crook. And that brand is much more exciting that waiting for a 3 run homer.

Today’s game is nothing like 1982 and never will be again. Reason why? 100mph fastballs. 3 hits to score is harder than having 3/9 guys with power that can change the game. That is the formula to win a WS in today’s game

[Alex Reyes Cy Young]

Having at least 2 very good starters and decent 3 and 4 starters (which they already have) along with a good setup guy and closer is the quickest way to be a real contender.
I don't see DeWitt spending for a couple upper tier starters but a team like the cardinals could be transformed quickly into a honest contender with them.

How’s it working for the Pirates? A top 10 offense is also needed. Specifically Slug. Cardinals were last in MLB

Exactly. This all or none (bleep) is idiotic. You need both.