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Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 14:38 pm
by ecleme22
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:21 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:02 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 12:36 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 12:01 pm
NO.
I like Bader, and I'm glad he's having a good year. But because of that he's going to get significantly more money than he's really worth. We've given out far too many of those contracts. It's a big reason why we're in the spot we're in.
then where do you find someone who DOESN'T cost more than they are worth, either in $ or talent? Maybe the true "Market price" is higher than we think it is and we just don't like reality.
We don't have anyone in our system with a realistic CF ceiling of 127 OPS+/4.5 WAR.
Well, that's the the trick, isn't it?
The vast majority of free agents will probably make more than they're worth. But that's the price you pay for a Juan Soto or someone like that. Not a Harrison Bader. Or a Dexter Fowler, or Brett Cecil, or Steven Matz, etc.
if the VAST Majority costs X, by definition, that IS what they are worth. The market defines worth. There are always outliers, but the vast majority can't be "an outlier".
Stay away from outliers.
2025: 830 OPS
2024: .657 OPS
2023: .622 OPS
2022: .650 OPS
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 14:45 pm
by Carp4Cy
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:38 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:21 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:02 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 12:36 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 12:01 pm
NO.
I like Bader, and I'm glad he's having a good year. But because of that he's going to get significantly more money than he's really worth. We've given out far too many of those contracts. It's a big reason why we're in the spot we're in.
then where do you find someone who DOESN'T cost more than they are worth, either in $ or talent? Maybe the true "Market price" is higher than we think it is and we just don't like reality.
We don't have anyone in our system with a realistic CF ceiling of 127 OPS+/4.5 WAR.
Well, that's the the trick, isn't it?
The vast majority of free agents will probably make more than they're worth. But that's the price you pay for a Juan Soto or someone like that. Not a Harrison Bader. Or a Dexter Fowler, or Brett Cecil, or Steven Matz, etc.
if the VAST Majority costs X, by definition, that IS what they are worth. The market defines worth. There are always outliers, but the vast majority can't be "an outlier".
Stay away from outliers.
2025: 830 OPS
2024: .657 OPS
2023: .622 OPS
2022: .650 OPS
Victor Scott is an outlier then compared to normal MLB hitting. Even Bader's career norm is a big improvement. But who else would you have in mind?
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 14:46 pm
by Rojo Johnson
Dag nabitt. It’s this kind of frontier gibberish thinking that got this franchise where it is today. Just can’t let the ghost of Moe know how highly he is thought of (NOT!). He has brainwashed you as surely as you are sitting there right now with your Bermuda shorts and striped bow tie on. Give it a rest.
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 14:55 pm
by Ozziesfan41
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:45 pm
ecleme22 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:38 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:21 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 14:02 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 12:36 pm
Strummer Jones wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 12:01 pm
NO.
I like Bader, and I'm glad he's having a good year. But because of that he's going to get significantly more money than he's really worth. We've given out far too many of those contracts. It's a big reason why we're in the spot we're in.
then where do you find someone who DOESN'T cost more than they are worth, either in $ or talent? Maybe the true "Market price" is higher than we think it is and we just don't like reality.
We don't have anyone in our system with a realistic CF ceiling of 127 OPS+/4.5 WAR.
Well, that's the the trick, isn't it?
The vast majority of free agents will probably make more than they're worth. But that's the price you pay for a Juan Soto or someone like that. Not a Harrison Bader. Or a Dexter Fowler, or Brett Cecil, or Steven Matz, etc.
if the VAST Majority costs X, by definition, that IS what they are worth. The market defines worth. There are always outliers, but the vast majority can't be "an outlier".
Stay away from outliers.
2025: 830 OPS
2024: .657 OPS
2023: .622 OPS
2022: .650 OPS
Victor Scott is an outlier then compared to normal MLB hitting. Even Bader's career norm is a big improvement. But who else would you have in mind?
A .220 or so hitting gold glove caliber center fielder 9th place hitter who steals 30-40 bases like Scott isn’t the problem on the team. They need to improve on guys like noot walker and Gorman who hit like they are no hit gold glove caliber fielders and are supposed to be middle of the order bats but in Gorman and walker suck at hitting and fielding. Those are the ones the team needs to upgrade from. Walker and Gorman contribute nothing on offense or defense. Upgrade from them and Scott is fine hitting ninth
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 15:05 pm
by icon
No.
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 15:09 pm
by riff raff
The right move was to sign him last offseason for 1 year.
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm
by Absolut
Sure. If you like mediocrity
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm
by Bomber1
I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.
Just move on.
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm
by renostl
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 10:56 am
Looks like he will become a FA.
On one hand, you may expect him to regress from this great year to his career norms.
OTOH, his career norms are miles ahead of Scott as a hitter. His defense isn't bad either. And we don't exactly have other great options in our OF. We need help from outside and if not Bader, we need to find someone else. And he won't cost Mike Trout money.
It is a mutual option, the situation in Philly
for a non-starting player night be difficult to beat, if Philly likes
what he provides in that role, I'd think HB would rather platoon there
than in St. Louis reunion.
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 15:54 pm
by Imperial Capitalist
Bomber1 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm
I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.
Just move on.
Amen.
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 16:24 pm
by kscardsfan
sheeesh
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 17:17 pm
by Carp4Cy
Bomber1 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm
I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.
Just move on.
to who? I'm asking for better realistic alternatives?
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 17:29 pm
by Ozziesfan41
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:17 pm
Bomber1 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm
I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.
Just move on.
to who? I'm asking for better realistic alternatives?
Why do they need an alternative? Upgrade on walker noot and Gorman who are supposed to bat in positions other than ninth and who don’t play gold glove defense walker and Gorman who are bad and can’t hit either. Upgrade from them and you can live with Scott hitting ninth playing gold glove defense and stealing 30-40 bases. Don’t fall for bader he’s a career low average low on base low ops hitter don’t fall in love with his good stats this season.
They need to spend what little money they are Allowed to spend on the rotation
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 17:35 pm
by Carp4Cy
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:29 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:17 pm
Bomber1 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm
I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.
Just move on.
to who? I'm asking for better realistic alternatives?
Why do they need an alternative? Upgrade on walker noot and Gorman who are supposed to bat in positions other than ninth and who don’t play gold glove defense walker and Gorman who are bad and can’t hit either. Upgrade from them and you can live with Scott hitting ninth playing gold glove defense and stealing 30-40 bases. Don’t fall for bader he’s a career low average low on base low ops hitter don’t fall in love with his good stats this season.
They need to spend what little money they are Allowed to spend on the rotation
Who are the upgrades then?
Any name suggested will either be too expensive or too risky for most of the armchair GMs here. Or not an upgrade.
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 17:47 pm
by 45s
Bomber1 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm
I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.
Just move on.
Old guys and farewell tours…
that’s The Cardinal Way..
Re: Re-acquire Bader for 26 and beyond?
Posted: 15 Sep 2025 18:07 pm
by 3dender
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:35 pm
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:29 pm
Carp4Cy wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 17:17 pm
Bomber1 wrote: ↑15 Sep 2025 15:37 pm
I’ll never understand the desire by some fans to bring g back ex-Cardinals.
Just move on.
to who? I'm asking for better realistic alternatives?
Why do they need an alternative? Upgrade on walker noot and Gorman who are supposed to bat in positions other than ninth and who don’t play gold glove defense walker and Gorman who are bad and can’t hit either. Upgrade from them and you can live with Scott hitting ninth playing gold glove defense and stealing 30-40 bases. Don’t fall for bader he’s a career low average low on base low ops hitter don’t fall in love with his good stats this season.
They need to spend what little money they are Allowed to spend on the rotation
Who are the upgrades then?
Any name suggested will either be too expensive or too risky for most of the armchair GMs here. Or not an upgrade.
An upgrade in CF or 4th OF for 2026 is very close to the last thing this organization needs to worry about, let alone spend money on.