Maton and Matz

[Barksdale's People]

Yes, after waiting too long to sell Goldy and Arenado I was really hoping they would keep waiting and get nothing for Helsley and the ever outstanding Steven Matz too.

Let’s keep this road to nowhere act going as long as possible. The fans are obviously on board based on attendance, which was excellent up to July 31st….

You can hold onto them and get nothing, or you can trade them and get what very well may amount to nothing at the major league level some day.

If you hold on, there may well be a better chance of surprising and winning some playoff games than there is that a 245th ranked prospect turns into an MVP


I mean, if we were determined to move them and we definitely did not want to re-sign them for next year, we should have at least bundled them together for a controlled player already producing positive war in the major leagues at a position we need. Maybe a 3 way trade.

Yes, and there is also a chance they don’t make the playoffs or have the lotto ticket prospects so this talent erosion continues on down the line into next year and the year after and… Hypotheticals are fun.

And oh yea there is that whole thing where the Giants, mentioned here by the OP as an example of what could have been, SOLD at the deadline. They aren’t where they are because they held strong, they are there because their replacements have filled the gaps and the core of their team is strong enough to contend. There is no reason that couldn’t have been true of the Cardinals, but it’s not.

Turn the page and do better next year. This is basic strategy and it couldn’t be easier to understand. If you disagree great, opinions are allowed. But I’m more a know when to hold em and know when to fold em guy. And the Cardinals play post deadline couldn’t have made it any clearer that folding was the right play.

two things -
1. we could have and should have brought up JJW. He has a much higher ceiling and probably could have produced much more than whoever got pushed off the roster/lineup: Fermin etc.
2. Even if folding is technically the "right' decision, I feel like its a very low impact decision in this case. Like, a bucket of balls is worth more than letting them walk for nothing level impact.

Sometimes I've stayed in a losing hand just to see the other guy's cards because it would only cost me 50 cents of chips. And that's ok with me when the opportunity cost is so low.

I don’t disagree on either point. But I would add that keeping Maton and Matz is also low impact. You could talk me into the Cardinals having one extra win at the end of the year had they kept those two. And 80 wins vs. 79 doesn’t do much for me.

The Cardinals are going to miss the playoffs because their young players haven’t taken the “next step” we needed them to, not because they traded 35 innings worth of middle relief.

That's fair, though if we had also done #1 and he'd stayed hot, maybe we are talking about 84 wins vs 83 and the differnce of making the playoffs.

Here is hoping Baez or Jordan or whoever else is worth that extra win when the Cardinals leadership are a bit more serious about contending.

[Carp4Cy]

Yes, after waiting too long to sell Goldy and Arenado I was really hoping they would keep waiting and get nothing for Helsley and the ever outstanding Steven Matz too.

Let’s keep this road to nowhere act going as long as possible. The fans are obviously on board based on attendance, which was excellent up to July 31st….

You can hold onto them and get nothing, or you can trade them and get what very well may amount to nothing at the major league level some day.

If you hold on, there may well be a better chance of surprising and winning some playoff games than there is that a 245th ranked prospect turns into an MVP


I mean, if we were determined to move them and we definitely did not want to re-sign them for next year, we should have at least bundled them together for a controlled player already producing positive war in the major leagues at a position we need. Maybe a 3 way trade.

Yes, and there is also a chance they don’t make the playoffs or have the lotto ticket prospects so this talent erosion continues on down the line into next year and the year after and… Hypotheticals are fun.

And oh yea there is that whole thing where the Giants, mentioned here by the OP as an example of what could have been, SOLD at the deadline. They aren’t where they are because they held strong, they are there because their replacements have filled the gaps and the core of their team is strong enough to contend. There is no reason that couldn’t have been true of the Cardinals, but it’s not.

Turn the page and do better next year. This is basic strategy and it couldn’t be easier to understand. If you disagree great, opinions are allowed. But I’m more a know when to hold em and know when to fold em guy. And the Cardinals play post deadline couldn’t have made it any clearer that folding was the right play.

two things -
1. we could have and should have brought up JJW. He has a much higher ceiling and probably could have produced much more than whoever got pushed off the roster/lineup: Fermin etc.
2. Even if folding is technically the "right' decision, I feel like its a very low impact decision in this case. Like, a bucket of balls is worth more than letting them walk for nothing level impact.

Sometimes I've stayed in a losing hand just to see the other guy's cards because it would only cost me 50 cents of chips. And that's ok with me when the opportunity cost is so low.

I don’t disagree on either point. But I would add that keeping Maton and Matz is also low impact. You could talk me into the Cardinals having one extra win at the end of the year had they kept those two. And 80 wins vs. 79 doesn’t do much for me.

The Cardinals are going to miss the playoffs because their young players haven’t taken the “next step” we needed them to, not because they traded 35 innings worth of middle relief.

That's fair, though if we had also done #1 and he'd stayed hot, maybe we are talking about 84 wins vs 83 and the differnce of making the playoffs.

Here is hoping Baez or Jordan or whoever else is worth that extra win when the Cardinals leadership are a bit more serious about contending.

Watching Roycroft tonight and realizing he wouldn't be on a MLB roster if Maton were still here - I'm thinking it might actually make more than 1 win difference.

Pens won't win many games for you, but they can certainly lose them fast.

[Ozziesfan41]

Yes, after waiting too long to sell Goldy and Arenado I was really hoping they would keep waiting and get nothing for Helsley and the ever outstanding Steven Matz too.

Let’s keep this road to nowhere act going as long as possible. The fans are obviously on board based on attendance, which was excellent up to July 31st….

You can hold onto them and get nothing, or you can trade them and get what very well may amount to nothing at the major league level some day.

If you hold on, there may well be a better chance of surprising and winning some playoff games than there is that a 245th ranked prospect turns into an MVP


I mean, if we were determined to move them and we definitely did not want to re-sign them for next year, we should have at least bundled them together for a controlled player already producing positive war in the major leagues at a position we need. Maybe a 3 way trade.

Yes, and there is also a chance they don’t make the playoffs or have the lotto ticket prospects so this talent erosion continues on down the line into next year and the year after and… Hypotheticals are fun.

And oh yea there is that whole thing where the Giants, mentioned here by the OP as an example of what could have been, SOLD at the deadline. They aren’t where they are because they held strong, they are there because their replacements have filled the gaps and the core of their team is strong enough to contend. There is no reason that couldn’t have been true of the Cardinals, but it’s not.

Turn the page and do better next year. This is basic strategy and it couldn’t be easier to understand. If you disagree great, opinions are allowed. But I’m more a know when to hold em and know when to fold em guy. And the Cardinals play post deadline couldn’t have made it any clearer that folding was the right play.

two things -
1. we could have and should have brought up JJW. He has a much higher ceiling and probably could have produced much more than whoever got pushed off the roster/lineup: Fermin etc.
2. Even if folding is technically the "right' decision, I feel like its a very low impact decision in this case. Like, a bucket of balls is worth more than letting them walk for nothing level impact.

Sometimes I've stayed in a losing hand just to see the other guy's cards because it would only cost me 50 cents of chips. And that's ok with me when the opportunity cost is so low.

I don’t disagree on either point. But I would add that keeping Maton and Matz is also low impact. You could talk me into the Cardinals having one extra win at the end of the year had they kept those two. And 80 wins vs. 79 doesn’t do much for me.

The Cardinals are going to miss the playoffs because their young players haven’t taken the “next step” we needed them to, not because they traded 35 innings worth of middle relief.

That's fair, though if we had also done #1 and he'd stayed hot, maybe we are talking about 84 wins vs 83 and the differnce of making the playoffs.

Here is hoping Baez or Jordan or whoever else is worth that extra win when the Cardinals leadership are a bit more serious about contending.

Watching Roycroft tonight and realizing he wouldn't be on a MLB roster if Maton were still here - I'm thinking it might actually make more than 1 win difference.

Pens won't win many games for you, but they can certainly lose them fast.

Yea but the cardinals had not traded helsley and kept him and matz and maton the Mets collapse wouldn’t have been as bad not having heslely so the cards would be further out than they are now

[BIG J]

I've seen enough of Roycroft and seen enough of Fernandez. If there's nobody better than these two on the way up, sign FA's or whoever is available. They can't be any worse than these two.