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Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 17:48 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:57 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:14 pm

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

The majority of the team members have performed well below expectations.
The manager has completely failed in the stated #1 objective of young player development and has terribly botched playing time opportunities.
The team is 4th in a 5-team division.
The team in 10th in a 15-team league.
In no sane universe is that worthy of a single manager-of-the-year vote.
It does, however, call for one pink slip.

Well said.

Will add....never should have been here this year to begin with.

Glad to see us back at .500. I belive a better manager would have us 10 games over (that's a 5-win difference).

Your apoarant dislike of Marmol as manager has clouded your objectivity. Texas and Cincinnati have HOF managers and more talent than us. How many more wins do those two great managers have this year than the Cardinals?

Who isn't being objective here? I was a Marmol defender until last year, when his bullpen management and other failures became too apparent. And we aren't Texas or Cincinnati; they have their own circumstances to deal with. Managerial quality is one factor of many that determines performance. Besides, it's rather ballsy to claim the Cincinnati has more talent than we do.

Ron Gant's Bicep wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 17:15 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:57 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:14 pm

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

The majority of the team members have performed well below expectations.
The manager has completely failed in the stated #1 objective of young player development and has terribly botched playing time opportunities.
The team is 4th in a 5-team division.
The team in 10th in a 15-team league.
In no sane universe is that worthy of a single manager-of-the-year vote.
It does, however, call for one pink slip.

Well said.

Will add....never should have been here this year to begin with.

Glad to see us back at .500. I belive a better manager would have us 10 games over (that's a 5-win difference).

Maybe I am missing something. What would another manager have done differently with this group of players that would have produced 10 more wins?

There’s been two ML caliber starters in the rotation all season. The bullpen has been a mish mash of raw talents and aging vets, backed for much of the season by Helsley having his worst season as a pro.

Arenado has either been hurt or ineffective. Donny started off hot and has been below league average since.

There’s just not much more juice to squeeze out of this bunch. Anyone claiming otherwise is being delusional about the level of talent we have.

Five more wins, not ten.

Better bullpen management and management of pitching staff.
Better handling of the players (motivation, game prep, expectations, etc.)

There is so much more to success than lineup cards and player talent levels.

The Nard wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:05 pm Didn’t know that his mother was voting.

He got your mother's vote

ForumPolice wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 17:54 pm If Oli was canned tomorrow would he hired by another MLB team to manage their team next season? Not a chance in hell

Exactly!!!!!

Milwaukee's name is the brewers. Perhaps we could get the owner drunk and trade Marmol for Murphy.

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 19:34 pm

Ron Gant's Bicep wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 17:15 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:57 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:14 pm

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

The majority of the team members have performed well below expectations.
The manager has completely failed in the stated #1 objective of young player development and has terribly botched playing time opportunities.
The team is 4th in a 5-team division.
The team in 10th in a 15-team league.
In no sane universe is that worthy of a single manager-of-the-year vote.
It does, however, call for one pink slip.

Well said.

Will add....never should have been here this year to begin with.

Glad to see us back at .500. I belive a better manager would have us 10 games over (that's a 5-win difference).

Maybe I am missing something. What would another manager have done differently with this group of players that would have produced 10 more wins?

There’s been two ML caliber starters in the rotation all season. The bullpen has been a mish mash of raw talents and aging vets, backed for much of the season by Helsley having his worst season as a pro.

Arenado has either been hurt or ineffective. Donny started off hot and has been below league average since.

There’s just not much more juice to squeeze out of this bunch. Anyone claiming otherwise is being delusional about the level of talent we have.

Five more wins, not ten.

Better bullpen management and management of pitching staff.
Better handling of the players (motivation, game prep, expectations, etc.)

There is so much more to success than lineup cards and player talent levels.

I'll take things made up out of thin air for $500 Alex.

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 19:15 pm

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 18:59 pm Mootbaar, N/A, Scott, Walker, Donovan, Herrera, Gray, Pallante, Mikolas, and Fedde all fell well below expectations.
Winn has been no worse and no better than expected.
The team's 2 most productive LH bats - Burleson and Gorman were both stupidly denied playing time early by the manager.
McGreevy was foolishly denied a roster spot in April - a decision to which a manager has input.
Conteras exceeded expectations (not mine of course, since I correctly predicted his successful 2025 move to 1b the day STL signed him
Liberatore accomplished what was needed.
Just 2 successes for The Marmot from those 16 key roster pieces is failure on a large scale.
The very definition of leadership is to cause others to succeed.
The Marmot failed.

first off the manager has no say in whether a rookie pitcher is on the roster...to suggest oli is responsible for having poor performance from players is ludicrous..given the players and performance it is remarkable they are a 500 team

Leaders have ONE job - cause others to succeed.
The Marmot is a remarkably bad failure by that key metric.
If success is not a manager's job, what is?
And if he is not accountable for failing to get the best from players, exactly what is he managing - hot dog sales?
Fact is, he is 18 games below .500 over the past 3 seasons - in what has been baseball's weakest division.
He took over a team which had reached the post-season 3 straight years - and managed to tread water for one season before his training wheels fell off.
Has not won a single post-season game in 4 seasons.
The team has gone over the cliff under his direction.
Zero question he should be fired for unsatisfactory performance.
But that is not all.
The TOXIC CULTURE infestation which has invaded and now defines the organization must be fumigated.
The fetid rot must be removed.
Bloom in the spring must create a fresh environment.
There is no other sane decision than to fire The Marmot.

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 19:31 pm

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 17:48 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:57 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:14 pm

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

The majority of the team members have performed well below expectations.
The manager has completely failed in the stated #1 objective of young player development and has terribly botched playing time opportunities.
The team is 4th in a 5-team division.
The team in 10th in a 15-team league.
In no sane universe is that worthy of a single manager-of-the-year vote.
It does, however, call for one pink slip.

Well said.

Will add....never should have been here this year to begin with.

Glad to see us back at .500. I belive a better manager would have us 10 games over (that's a 5-win difference).

Your apoarant dislike of Marmol as manager has clouded your objectivity. Texas and Cincinnati have HOF managers and more talent than us. How many more wins do those two great managers have this year than the Cardinals?

Who isn't being objective here? I was a Marmol defender until last year, when his bullpen management and other failures became too apparent. And we aren't Texas or Cincinnati; they have their own circumstances to deal with. Managerial quality is one factor of many that determines performance. Besides, it's rather ballsy to claim the Cincinnati has more talent than we do.

Bullpen mismanagement? You have to be kidding. That is something he has done well. What metric are you using for that or is it just based on your keen observation? The bullpen and defense are two of the reasons we win games. The manager has nothing to do with that? And I don't remember our key relievers facing lots of injuries from overuse. Cincinnati has several really good starting pitchers far better than ours. Their offense is not worse than ours.

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 21:02 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 19:31 pm

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 17:48 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:57 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:14 pm

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

The majority of the team members have performed well below expectations.
The manager has completely failed in the stated #1 objective of young player development and has terribly botched playing time opportunities.
The team is 4th in a 5-team division.
The team in 10th in a 15-team league.
In no sane universe is that worthy of a single manager-of-the-year vote.
It does, however, call for one pink slip.

Well said.

Will add....never should have been here this year to begin with.

Glad to see us back at .500. I belive a better manager would have us 10 games over (that's a 5-win difference).

Your apoarant dislike of Marmol as manager has clouded your objectivity. Texas and Cincinnati have HOF managers and more talent than us. How many more wins do those two great managers have this year than the Cardinals?

Who isn't being objective here? I was a Marmol defender until last year, when his bullpen management and other failures became too apparent. And we aren't Texas or Cincinnati; they have their own circumstances to deal with. Managerial quality is one factor of many that determines performance. Besides, it's rather ballsy to claim the Cincinnati has more talent than we do.

Bullpen mismanagement? You have to be kidding. That is something he has done well. What metric are you using for that or is it just based on your keen observation? The bullpen and defense are two of the reasons we win games. The manager has nothing to do with that? And I don't remember our key relievers facing lots of injuries from overuse. Cincinnati has several really good starting pitchers far better than ours. Their offense is not worse than ours.

No, I'm not kidding. Are you watching the games? A guy comes in, gives up the tying run, then the Cards score and the pitcher is credited with the win. No, you can't just go by stats. His paint-by-numbers bullpen management has been pointed out many times throughout this season. Those not paying attention is not my problem.

Ummmmmmmmm

N-O!

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:18 am

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 21:02 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 19:31 pm

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 17:48 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:57 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:14 pm

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

The majority of the team members have performed well below expectations.
The manager has completely failed in the stated #1 objective of young player development and has terribly botched playing time opportunities.
The team is 4th in a 5-team division.
The team in 10th in a 15-team league.
In no sane universe is that worthy of a single manager-of-the-year vote.
It does, however, call for one pink slip.

Well said.

Will add....never should have been here this year to begin with.

Glad to see us back at .500. I belive a better manager would have us 10 games over (that's a 5-win difference).

Your apoarant dislike of Marmol as manager has clouded your objectivity. Texas and Cincinnati have HOF managers and more talent than us. How many more wins do those two great managers have this year than the Cardinals?

Who isn't being objective here? I was a Marmol defender until last year, when his bullpen management and other failures became too apparent. And we aren't Texas or Cincinnati; they have their own circumstances to deal with. Managerial quality is one factor of many that determines performance. Besides, it's rather ballsy to claim the Cincinnati has more talent than we do.

Bullpen mismanagement? You have to be kidding. That is something he has done well. What metric are you using for that or is it just based on your keen observation? The bullpen and defense are two of the reasons we win games. The manager has nothing to do with that? And I don't remember our key relievers facing lots of injuries from overuse. Cincinnati has several really good starting pitchers far better than ours. Their offense is not worse than ours.

No, I'm not kidding. Are you watching the games? A guy comes in, gives up the tying run, then the Cards score and the pitcher is credited with the win. No, you can't just go by stats. His paint-by-numbers bullpen management has been pointed out many times throughout this season. Those not paying attention is not my problem.

That is just your take. He has managed the bullpen well. I don't look at wins for relievers. That is dumb. He manages the bullpen each game based on what pitchers he has available that night, the matchups likely faced that night, and who will ne available the next night. When starters have short outings that also affects things greatly. The Cardinals bullpen has pitched well ths year and last, and kept them in a lot of games allowing the come back wins. Lately it has been done with three of their key bullpen pieces gone. Bernie Miklasz had a great bit about this a couple weeks ago.

Of all the problems this team has had the bullpen and it's management is one of the bright spots.

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:34 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:18 am

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 21:02 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 19:31 pm

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 17:48 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:57 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:14 pm

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

The majority of the team members have performed well below expectations.
The manager has completely failed in the stated #1 objective of young player development and has terribly botched playing time opportunities.
The team is 4th in a 5-team division.
The team in 10th in a 15-team league.
In no sane universe is that worthy of a single manager-of-the-year vote.
It does, however, call for one pink slip.

Well said.

Will add....never should have been here this year to begin with.

Glad to see us back at .500. I belive a better manager would have us 10 games over (that's a 5-win difference).

Your apoarant dislike of Marmol as manager has clouded your objectivity. Texas and Cincinnati have HOF managers and more talent than us. How many more wins do those two great managers have this year than the Cardinals?

Who isn't being objective here? I was a Marmol defender until last year, when his bullpen management and other failures became too apparent. And we aren't Texas or Cincinnati; they have their own circumstances to deal with. Managerial quality is one factor of many that determines performance. Besides, it's rather ballsy to claim the Cincinnati has more talent than we do.

Bullpen mismanagement? You have to be kidding. That is something he has done well. What metric are you using for that or is it just based on your keen observation? The bullpen and defense are two of the reasons we win games. The manager has nothing to do with that? And I don't remember our key relievers facing lots of injuries from overuse. Cincinnati has several really good starting pitchers far better than ours. Their offense is not worse than ours.

No, I'm not kidding. Are you watching the games? A guy comes in, gives up the tying run, then the Cards score and the pitcher is credited with the win. No, you can't just go by stats. His paint-by-numbers bullpen management has been pointed out many times throughout this season. Those not paying attention is not my problem.

That is just your take. He has managed the bullpen well. I don't look at wins for relievers. That is dumb. He manages the bullpen each game based on what pitchers he has available that night, the matchups likely faced that night, and who will ne available the next night. When starters have short outings that also affects things greatly. The Cardinals bullpen has pitched well ths year and last, and kept them in a lot of games allowing the come back wins. Lately it has been done with three of their key bullpen pieces gone. Bernie Miklasz had a great bit about this a couple weeks ago.

Of all the problems this team has had the bullpen and it's management is one of the bright spots.

I am quite familiar with the paint-by-numbers approach. Explaining it is not tantamount to a defense of it. You seem to be dismissive of that which you disagree, so I don't see any reason to continue here.

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:14 pm

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

The majority of the team members have performed well below expectations.
The manager has completely failed in the stated #1 objective of young player development and has terribly botched playing time opportunities.
The team is 4th in a 5-team division.
The team in 10th in a 15-team league.
In no sane universe is that worthy of a single manager-of-the-year vote.
It does, however, call for one pink slip.

Absolutely, positively 100% correct, Mel.

Except Mr. Bloom needs to hand out a bunch of pink slips.

Bloom needs to wipe the slate clean and bring in an entire new manager and coaching staff. Not only objectively per poor results, but also subjectively and psychologically to show both the fan base and the players themselves that the current miserable “brand” of Cardinal Baseball will no longer be tolerated. Mike Shildt was successful in bringing back a balanced and aggressive brand of baseball back to the Cards and it needs to be done again. This time with vigor and the backing of team ownership and management.

I think High Em gives Oli 1 more year

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 13:24 pm

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 12:34 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑08 Sep 2025 11:18 am

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 21:02 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 19:31 pm

Bob Kunush wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 17:48 pm

BrummerStealsHome wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:57 pm

Cardinals4Life wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:51 pm

Melville wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 16:14 pm

jbrach wrote: ↑07 Sep 2025 15:08 pm look at the team on the field,how is this team playing 500 ball?

The majority of the team members have performed well below expectations.
The manager has completely failed in the stated #1 objective of young player development and has terribly botched playing time opportunities.
The team is 4th in a 5-team division.
The team in 10th in a 15-team league.
In no sane universe is that worthy of a single manager-of-the-year vote.
It does, however, call for one pink slip.

Well said.

Will add....never should have been here this year to begin with.

Glad to see us back at .500. I belive a better manager would have us 10 games over (that's a 5-win difference).

Your apoarant dislike of Marmol as manager has clouded your objectivity. Texas and Cincinnati have HOF managers and more talent than us. How many more wins do those two great managers have this year than the Cardinals?

Who isn't being objective here? I was a Marmol defender until last year, when his bullpen management and other failures became too apparent. And we aren't Texas or Cincinnati; they have their own circumstances to deal with. Managerial quality is one factor of many that determines performance. Besides, it's rather ballsy to claim the Cincinnati has more talent than we do.

Bullpen mismanagement? You have to be kidding. That is something he has done well. What metric are you using for that or is it just based on your keen observation? The bullpen and defense are two of the reasons we win games. The manager has nothing to do with that? And I don't remember our key relievers facing lots of injuries from overuse. Cincinnati has several really good starting pitchers far better than ours. Their offense is not worse than ours.

No, I'm not kidding. Are you watching the games? A guy comes in, gives up the tying run, then the Cards score and the pitcher is credited with the win. No, you can't just go by stats. His paint-by-numbers bullpen management has been pointed out many times throughout this season. Those not paying attention is not my problem.

That is just your take. He has managed the bullpen well. I don't look at wins for relievers. That is dumb. He manages the bullpen each game based on what pitchers he has available that night, the matchups likely faced that night, and who will ne available the next night. When starters have short outings that also affects things greatly. The Cardinals bullpen has pitched well ths year and last, and kept them in a lot of games allowing the come back wins. Lately it has been done with three of their key bullpen pieces gone. Bernie Miklasz had a great bit about this a couple weeks ago.

Of all the problems this team has had the bullpen and it's management is one of the bright spots.

I am quite familiar with the paint-by-numbers approach. Explaining it is not tantamount to a defense of it. You seem to be dismissive of that which you disagree, so I don't see any reason to continue here.

I'm dismissive of posts based on nothing but opinion without any support. Hochman has a interesting piece today about how good the bullpen has been. Amazing how well it is doing with mostly young pitchers with a manager who is such a poor bullpen skipper.