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11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:52 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:51 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:49 am For those who feel the need to defend this spiral that's led to this hard not to admit what the ballclub has become.

And people actually believe this team can compete for the division next season.

Just brutal.

I could fix this roster in less than 30 days.
Any competent person could.

I could have fixed it years ago.

Terrific, 11WS. What teams have you done that for?
And at what level? Honest question.

I agree there is people you could cut off the 40 man. Problem is that’s not Marmols call.

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 10:14 am

IndCard75 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:42 am Although I’m not a Marmol fan his hands are tied by the GM and ownership. Taylor and or Wilkerson would have to be added to the 40 man roster. If they aren’t added then the only other option I see is moving Pallante to the pen and have Graceffo take his starts.
He has experience as a starter and has pitched some in long relief this year so he should be able to at least get through 4 innings.

There's half a dozen guys on the 40 who could be cut by lunchtime. The 40 man should not be a serious consideration for this.

cut pallante, problem solved.

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:36 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:52 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:51 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:49 am For those who feel the need to defend this spiral that's led to this hard not to admit what the ballclub has become.

And people actually believe this team can compete for the division next season.

Just brutal.

I could fix this roster in less than 30 days.
Any competent person could.

I could have fixed it years ago.

Terrific, 11WS. What teams have you done that for?
And at what level? Honest question.

Sign Harper.

In doing so Alcantra and Gallen would still be here.

When is the last time the franchise won a championship without having a generational talent?

Next.

You're in over your head as usual.

Bully4you wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:59 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:55 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:52 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:51 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:49 am For those who feel the need to defend this spiral that's led to this hard not to admit what the ballclub has become.

And people actually believe this team can compete for the division next season.

Just brutal.

I could fix this roster in less than 30 days.
Any competent person could.

I could have fixed it years ago.

Yep.
Any competent person could have.
TOXIC CULTURE has been obvious for a long time.

Nope not 30 days
Quit gaslighting everyone.
This is multiyear dilemma.
The best of the best can't perform miracles in 30 days dude.

He's not. It isn't that difficult. With a normal payroll budget, a couple of trades, and the WILL, it could be done in 1 offseason. Will it? No chance!

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:40 am

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 10:14 am

IndCard75 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:42 am Although I’m not a Marmol fan his hands are tied by the GM and ownership. Taylor and or Wilkerson would have to be added to the 40 man roster. If they aren’t added then the only other option I see is moving Pallante to the pen and have Graceffo take his starts.
He has experience as a starter and has pitched some in long relief this year so he should be able to at least get through 4 innings.

There's half a dozen guys on the 40 who could be cut by lunchtime. The 40 man should not be a serious consideration for this.

cut pallante, problem solved.

That would be an incredibly drastic and short-sighted reaction to one single month of terrible performance. He was a perfectly fine (and cheap) 4/5 starter for the first 4 months of the season:

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:45 am
Looking over his splits it's insane how much the wheels have fallen off in August.

He was fine-not-great in the previous 4 months, never with a WHIP over 1.45 and an opponents OPS over .763. Worst ERA was July with a 5.16, even though his WHIP and OPS were his best of the season that month.

In August opponents have a 1.021 OPS against him and he has a 2.045 WHIP and a 9.82 ERA... basically he's turning all opposing batters into Ohtani.

He's at a career high in innings pitched but only by like 20 innings more than last year, so that doesn't really seem like it can be the explanation.

ERA by month:
4.13
4.34
4.91
5.16
9.82

WHIP by month:
1.29
1.45
1.33
1.18
2.05

Opposing OPS by month:
.763
.739
.743
.638
1.021

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:43 am

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:36 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:52 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:51 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:49 am For those who feel the need to defend this spiral that's led to this hard not to admit what the ballclub has become.

And people actually believe this team can compete for the division next season.

Just brutal.

I could fix this roster in less than 30 days.
Any competent person could.

I could have fixed it years ago.

Terrific, 11WS. What teams have you done that for?
And at what level? Honest question.

Sign Harper.

In doing so Alcantra and Gallen would still be here.

When is the last time the franchise won a championship without having a generational talent?

Next.

You're in over your head as usual.

Dubious. Might know more than you, but that’s immaterial. Again, your qualifications, please? Or are you just offering an amateur opinion?

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:49 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:40 am

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 10:14 am

IndCard75 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:42 am Although I’m not a Marmol fan his hands are tied by the GM and ownership. Taylor and or Wilkerson would have to be added to the 40 man roster. If they aren’t added then the only other option I see is moving Pallante to the pen and have Graceffo take his starts.
He has experience as a starter and has pitched some in long relief this year so he should be able to at least get through 4 innings.

There's half a dozen guys on the 40 who could be cut by lunchtime. The 40 man should not be a serious consideration for this.

cut pallante, problem solved.

That would be an incredibly drastic and short-sighted reaction to one single month of terrible performance. He was a perfectly fine (and cheap) 4/5 starter for the first 4 months of the season:

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:45 am
Looking over his splits it's insane how much the wheels have fallen off in August.

He was fine-not-great in the previous 4 months, never with a WHIP over 1.45 and an opponents OPS over .763. Worst ERA was July with a 5.16, even though his WHIP and OPS were his best of the season that month.

In August opponents have a 1.021 OPS against him and he has a 2.045 WHIP and a 9.82 ERA... basically he's turning all opposing batters into Ohtani.

He's at a career high in innings pitched but only by like 20 innings more than last year, so that doesn't really seem like it can be the explanation.

ERA by month:
4.13
4.34
4.91
5.16
9.82

WHIP by month:
1.29
1.45
1.33
1.18
2.05

Opposing OPS by month:
.763
.739
.743
.638
1.021

He's arb eligible and has negative WAR. Is he part of the solution worth investing 7 figures into? Seems like a non-tender or trade candidate if Bloom wants to save cash.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:56 am

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:49 am

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:40 am

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 10:14 am

IndCard75 wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 09:42 am Although I’m not a Marmol fan his hands are tied by the GM and ownership. Taylor and or Wilkerson would have to be added to the 40 man roster. If they aren’t added then the only other option I see is moving Pallante to the pen and have Graceffo take his starts.
He has experience as a starter and has pitched some in long relief this year so he should be able to at least get through 4 innings.

There's half a dozen guys on the 40 who could be cut by lunchtime. The 40 man should not be a serious consideration for this.

cut pallante, problem solved.

That would be an incredibly drastic and short-sighted reaction to one single month of terrible performance. He was a perfectly fine (and cheap) 4/5 starter for the first 4 months of the season:

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:45 am
Looking over his splits it's insane how much the wheels have fallen off in August.

He was fine-not-great in the previous 4 months, never with a WHIP over 1.45 and an opponents OPS over .763. Worst ERA was July with a 5.16, even though his WHIP and OPS were his best of the season that month.

In August opponents have a 1.021 OPS against him and he has a 2.045 WHIP and a 9.82 ERA... basically he's turning all opposing batters into Ohtani.

He's at a career high in innings pitched but only by like 20 innings more than last year, so that doesn't really seem like it can be the explanation.

ERA by month:
4.13
4.34
4.91
5.16
9.82

WHIP by month:
1.29
1.45
1.33
1.18
2.05

Opposing OPS by month:
.763
.739
.743
.638
1.021

He's arb eligible and has negative WAR. Is he part of the solution worth investing 7 figures into? Seems like a non-tender or trade candidate if Bloom wants to save cash.

Probably so.

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:56 am He's arb eligible and has negative WAR. Is he part of the solution worth investing 7 figures into? Seems like a non-tender or trade candidate if Bloom wants to save cash.

Negative WAR this year, 1.7 last year. Maybe was positive before August, not sure how to check that.

Bloom is gonna need two pitchers regardless, and I'm sure at least one of them will be a 4/5 dumpster dive a la Lynn/Gibson, which will run anywhere from $8-12M.

Pallante is gonna make $2-3M. That's not too much to pay for insurance/innings from a 6th starter or swing man. If they cut him they'll just have to sign someone else to about that much to take his place before Mathews is ready for the rotation.

This season cannot end soon enough for fans and players. The organization is showing their lack of development at this point and compounding the issue by refusing to make business decisions. Pallante has got one or more of 3 things going on,
1. Tipping pitches?
2. Arm Fatigue?
3. Injury?
He can be a very effective pitcher when things are working right. He has shown it. However, right now he is just broken in some way. I think in the off season we can say they need to not guarantee him a spot next year or just trade him. If here still make him earn it in competition. Show that he has found the issues and fixed them.

In the mean time they should go next man up to get through the season and bring up Taylor or another as others have suggested. Sometimes guys reach a certain level of dysfunction in the minors. They do just enough to have some success, but do not excel because they have not been shown any love from management. A call up to the show can reinvigorate some players. Good food, good travel, bright lights, big city. They work hard to not have to go back to long bus rides and cheap food. The drag on the MLB team right now with pitchers blowing up night after night is evident. They need to finish this awful season on some kind of a positive note.

The problem we have is the farewell tour Moz was given. It is paralyzing moves that need to be made as well as the impending lockout. Let's hope they do the right thing and shut him down and get someone else in there. It cannot be any worse than this is now.

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:52 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:43 am

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:36 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:52 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:51 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:49 am For those who feel the need to defend this spiral that's led to this hard not to admit what the ballclub has become.

And people actually believe this team can compete for the division next season.

Just brutal.

I could fix this roster in less than 30 days.
Any competent person could.

I could have fixed it years ago.

Terrific, 11WS. What teams have you done that for?
And at what level? Honest question.

Sign Harper.

In doing so Alcantra and Gallen would still be here.

When is the last time the franchise won a championship without having a generational talent?

Next.

You're in over your head as usual.

Dubious. Might know more than you, but that’s immaterial. Again, your qualifications, please? Or are you just offering an amateur opinion?

You seem to take this POV often. It actually comes off as smug and suggests that
a POBO has great intellect that cannot be matched.

Qualifications are what we acquire when choosing a career path. Most here chose something
other than baseball.

Intellect and knowledge are different items. There are people here who are not as privileged to
make as many errors in their field as a POBO is. POBO's get to move on from any single wrong choice
with the next player and the next season. In the case of several, with little accountability.

Cranny you aren't qualified but you could have been with opportunity and desire.

3dender wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 12:31 pm

Carp4Cy wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:56 am He's arb eligible and has negative WAR. Is he part of the solution worth investing 7 figures into? Seems like a non-tender or trade candidate if Bloom wants to save cash.

Negative WAR this year, 1.7 last year. Maybe was positive before August, not sure how to check that.

Bloom is gonna need two pitchers regardless, and I'm sure at least one of them will be a 4/5 dumpster dive a la Lynn/Gibson, which will run anywhere from $8-12M.

Pallante is gonna make $2-3M. That's not too much to pay for insurance/innings from a 6th starter or swing man. If they cut him they'll just have to sign someone else to about that much to take his place before Mathews is ready for the rotation.

Excellent position.

A pitch to contact guy as many MLB pitchers are. I have zero proof when stating that
I believe the veterans that were on last seasons pitching staff helped pitchers like Pallante
navigate the season, a start, and getting the most out of what they are. Namely Gibson.
Cards need a guy to provide that or pay for veteran pitchers or SO pitchers only, JMO.

What is the point of these old guys if you cant use them if you need a filler. And what is the worry about someone that is very old and isnt pitching their way onto the 40 to be used, but oh, better make sure they dont get on the 40 and then have to go back down through waivers etc or whatever it is..cause that is some real talent there lol....

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:52 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:43 am

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:36 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:52 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:51 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:49 am For those who feel the need to defend this spiral that's led to this hard not to admit what the ballclub has become.

And people actually believe this team can compete for the division next season.

Just brutal.

I could fix this roster in less than 30 days.
Any competent person could.

I could have fixed it years ago.

Terrific, 11WS. What teams have you done that for?
And at what level? Honest question.

Sign Harper.

In doing so Alcantra and Gallen would still be here.

When is the last time the franchise won a championship without having a generational talent?

Next.

You're in over your head as usual.

Dubious. Might know more than you, but that’s immaterial. Again, your qualifications, please? Or are you just offering an amateur opinion?

Are you asking if Mike Rizzo is trolling CT? Are you a classically trained musician and chef, or do you hold no opinions about food and music, as unqualified as your are?

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:52 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:43 am

Cranny wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 11:36 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:52 am

Melville wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:51 am

11WSChamps wrote: ↑27 Aug 2025 08:49 am For those who feel the need to defend this spiral that's led to this hard not to admit what the ballclub has become.

And people actually believe this team can compete for the division next season.

Just brutal.

I could fix this roster in less than 30 days.
Any competent person could.

I could have fixed it years ago.

Terrific, 11WS. What teams have you done that for?
And at what level? Honest question.

Sign Harper.

In doing so Alcantra and Gallen would still be here.

When is the last time the franchise won a championship without having a generational talent?

Next.

You're in over your head as usual.

Dubious. Might know more than you, but that’s immaterial. Again, your qualifications, please? Or are you just offering an amateur opinion?

You don't have to have a degree in differential calculus to know signing Harper was a given and not swinging in the dark for years as the organization has done on OF'ers for a decade.

I know your knowledge in building a roster around cornerstone players fails you so continuing this would be a fools errand.