What would make the cardinals be competitive next year

[rockondlouie]

If spending more $$$ is the answer to bring more fans to Busch Stadium, then how can Brewers spend far less and bring more fans to their games.

The Brewers are a Unicorn, the Exception and NOT the Rule.

How's that spending far less working out for the.....

Rockies
Twins
Royals
Nats
Guardians
Rays
Pirates
White Sox
A's
Marlins

Not well

[PadsFS07]

Spotrac only takes into account players under contract. So all $69M of that is to Gray Contreras and Arenado.

Gorman, Liberatore and Burleson are Arb1 this winter. Wouldn't shock me if Gorman is traded. Burleson and Liberatore likely add $4M.

Nootbar, Donovan and Pallante are Arb2 this winter. I am guessing Nootbar is traded. Donovan may get $5.5M, Pallante $3M So that is $8.5M.

Romero and King are Arb 3 this winter. I expect King will be DFA so they don't have to pay him. Romero $3.5M.

So $16M + $69M = $85M. They then need 18 more players to fill out the roster. Lets say 16 of them are pre-arb that is $12.5M and say two veteran relieves at $2M each so $4M or $16.5M. That brings payroll to $101.5M If they can get rid of Arenado, that brings payroll in at $76.5M That certainly gives a lot of room for free agents. But, I expect none other than 2 veteran bullpen pieces.

I have them at $110M.

Gray Nado and Contreras at $75M.

Donovan Noot at $10M

Romero King Pallante Libbie $11M

Extras at $14M

Either way, it’s $70M lower than our payroll in 2024.

[PadsFS07]

I’d like to see them sign a couple innings eaters - Quintana and Bassitt seem like Cardinal-like additions

Also get a high risk starter - Mahle

Then add a legit catcher - Realmuto ideally or Jansen if they think one of Pages Crooks or Pozo will be ok. Realmuto seems like a Sanders/Beltran/Berkman type of addition that we used to make.

Then trade some of the surplus. We have Nootbaar, Walker, Burleson, Herrera, Gorman, and Donovan all basically fighting for 3 positions. Maybe move Walker back to AAA. Burleson to RF, Herrera to DH, Donovan to LF - leaves you trading Nootbaar and Gorman.

I would also like to bring Bader back as well to platoon with Scott.

Offensively, our only weak position would be 3B and defensively, only RF would be the weak spot.

Rotation of Bassitt Quintana Gray Mahle Liberatore McGreevy

[ecleme22]

You have to keep in mind the Cards have been relatively competitive the last two years without doing much.

Also, with the exception of the draft pick given up for Conteras, the Cards have only been acquiring the last three years.

Personally, I think a modest uptick in FA involvement would make a big difference. How big? Over 85 wins.

[earp]

Re: What would make the cardinals be competitive next year?

1. MLB Ballclub
2. After that falls into place
(think back-1/2 year Whitey took over BAD BAD-next year as GM/Manager, let's do that again!

2025 was never meant to be a serious playoff push, and the organization is now working to rebuild trust and excitement for future seasons!
Rince and Repeat

[OldRed]

You have to keep in mind the Cards have been relatively competitive the last two years without doing much.

Also, with the exception of the draft pick given up for Conteras, the Cards have only been acquiring the last three years.

Personally, I think a modest uptick in FA involvement would make a big difference. How big? Over 85 wins.

Currently 61 - 64 and 18 out of first

2024 finished 83 - 79 and 10 out first

2023 finished 71 - 91 and 21 out of first.

Sorry, I don't call this relatively competitive.

[An Old Friend]

1. Losing Mozeliak.
2. Ditching Marmol.
3. Shuttling Dusty back to college.
4. Increasing payroll to acquire pitching & a moto bat.

If they’re not in on a guy like Dylan Cease, it will tell us that they’re aiming to win in the short term. He’s the most obvious fit and need in the market.

[JuanAgosto]

1. Losing Mozeliak.
2. Ditching Marmol.
3. Shuttling Dusty back to college.
4. Increasing payroll to acquire pitching & a moto bat.

If they’re not in on a guy like Dylan Cease, it will tell us that they’re aiming to win in the short term. He’s the most obvious fit and need in the market.

I dont think DeWitt spends in free agency this year. I look for a trade or two.

[An Old Friend]

1. Losing Mozeliak.
2. Ditching Marmol.
3. Shuttling Dusty back to college.
4. Increasing payroll to acquire pitching & a moto bat.

If they’re not in on a guy like Dylan Cease, it will tell us that they’re aiming to win in the short term. He’s the most obvious fit and need in the market.

I dont think DeWitt spends in free agency this year. I look for a trade or two.

I don’t think so either and have said as much many times, so I’ll be consistent.

There is a wide gap between what I’d like to see and what I expect to see.

[ICCFIM2]

1. Losing Mozeliak.
2. Ditching Marmol.
3. Shuttling Dusty back to college.
4. Increasing payroll to acquire pitching & a moto bat.

Payroll back to top 11 like 2006-2011. That will be $215m and currently projected at $75m. $140m will get Tucker and 2 TORSP. Trade 3-4 of the OF/2B/DH abundance to fix bullpen

$75 million payroll in 2026 MLB. How pathetic. DeWitt is milking the customers.

$75m currently on roster. Lower if they trade Areanado

Unreal. And a 15% increase on season tickets. Terrible business model.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/_/year/2026


I was wrong. Currently $69m committed and most of it is to Gray Contreras and Arenado

Spotrac only takes into account players under contract. So all $69M of that is to Gray Contreras and Arenado.

Gorman, Liberatore and Burleson are Arb1 this winter. Wouldn't shock me if Gorman is traded. Burleson and Liberatore likely add $4M.

Nootbar, Donovan and Pallante are Arb2 this winter. I am guessing Nootbar is traded. Donovan may get $5.5M, Pallante $3M So that is $8.5M.

Romero and King are Arb 3 this winter. I expect King will be DFA so they don't have to pay him. Romero $3.5M.

So $16M + $69M = $85M. They then need 18 more players to fill out the roster. Lets say 16 of them are pre-arb that is $12.5M and say two veteran relieves at $2M each so $4M or $16.5M. That brings payroll to $101.5M If they can get rid of Arenado, that brings payroll in at $76.5M That certainly gives a lot of room for free agents. But, I expect none other than 2 veteran bullpen pieces.

So last place and 1m fans. Owners choice. If he wants the 3.2m and value of franchise to continue to increase he needs to spend that $100-$125m to obtain players fans will pay to watch.

For years folks clamored for a tear down and rebuild on this board. If the Cards can trade all of Arenado, Contreras and Gray this winter, they would have an entirely farm built team or players that were traded for while they were still in the minor leagues. That is a rebuild. To be honest, if they get to that point, it might be the right approach. They would have a huge amount of payroll space going into 2027. If Doyle, Liberatore and Mathews are decent SP, they would have plenty of money to sign a true #1. If Wetherholdt and Herrera are true elite hitters, they would have plenty of money to sign a third elite hitter. That might make the team competitive in 2027.

[Youboughtit]

1. Losing Mozeliak.
2. Ditching Marmol.
3. Shuttling Dusty back to college.
4. Increasing payroll to acquire pitching & a moto bat.

Payroll back to top 11 like 2006-2011. That will be $215m and currently projected at $75m. $140m will get Tucker and 2 TORSP. Trade 3-4 of the OF/2B/DH abundance to fix bullpen

$75 million payroll in 2026 MLB. How pathetic. DeWitt is milking the customers.

$75m currently on roster. Lower if they trade Areanado

Unreal. And a 15% increase on season tickets. Terrible business model.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/_/year/2026


I was wrong. Currently $69m committed and most of it is to Gray Contreras and Arenado

Spotrac only takes into account players under contract. So all $69M of that is to Gray Contreras and Arenado.

Gorman, Liberatore and Burleson are Arb1 this winter. Wouldn't shock me if Gorman is traded. Burleson and Liberatore likely add $4M.

Nootbar, Donovan and Pallante are Arb2 this winter. I am guessing Nootbar is traded. Donovan may get $5.5M, Pallante $3M So that is $8.5M.

Romero and King are Arb 3 this winter. I expect King will be DFA so they don't have to pay him. Romero $3.5M.

So $16M + $69M = $85M. They then need 18 more players to fill out the roster. Lets say 16 of them are pre-arb that is $12.5M and say two veteran relieves at $2M each so $4M or $16.5M. That brings payroll to $101.5M If they can get rid of Arenado, that brings payroll in at $76.5M That certainly gives a lot of room for free agents. But, I expect none other than 2 veteran bullpen pieces.

So last place and 1m fans. Owners choice. If he wants the 3.2m and value of franchise to continue to increase he needs to spend that $100-$125m to obtain players fans will pay to watch.

For years folks clamored for a tear down and rebuild on this board. If the Cards can trade all of Arenado, Contreras and Gray this winter, they would have an entirely farm built team or players that were traded for while they were still in the minor leagues. That is a rebuild. To be honest, if they get to that point, it might be the right approach. They would have a huge amount of payroll space going into 2027. If Doyle, Liberatore and Mathews are decent SP, they would have plenty of money to sign a true #1. If Wetherholdt and Herrera are true elite hitters, they would have plenty of money to sign a third elite hitter. That might make the team competitive in 2027.

Except the new draft rules don’t guarantee draft picks. They missed that opportunity. Too late for that now. They need to spend spend $ and get the foundation. Nothing else matters. Until they have their “top 5” elite superstars they have no chance. Winn is not near that type of guy. Maybe Wetherholt and Doyle but that still leaves them missing 3 more. How do they get them? The answer is by trade then big$ extensions. Until they have an equal distribution of draft and develop and big spending it will not work to create long term sustained success. $200m payroll within next 3 seasons

[Chitownredbird]

The only thing they need to be a WC contender is a manager the players respect. Example, the Bears this year v last.