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Hoosier59 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:58 pm I thought Waino’s answer to AJ’s question was more telling than he might have meant to say!
He said, in case you missed it, was that yes, they needed to improve the minors, like they say they are trying to do. But, then he said, they needed to augment that with some veteran players to help lead and show the young guys the proper way.
Sounded like he was admitting that they didn’t currently have that!

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 04:47 am

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:58 pm I thought Waino’s answer to AJ’s question was more telling than he might have meant to say!
He said, in case you missed it, was that yes, they needed to improve the minors, like they say they are trying to do. But, then he said, they needed to augment that with some veteran players to help lead and show the young guys the proper way.
Sounded like he was admitting that they didn’t currently have that!

You can buy a LOT of coaches, roving instructors, etc. to teach prospects "the proper way" for the $50, $100, etc. million that you'd dump into "veteran players" expecting them to do so.

And historical examples (Houston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc.) have shown that it typically takes four or five years to do a "deep rebuild" like the one the Cardinals need.

2ninr wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 05:12 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 04:47 am

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:58 pm I thought Waino’s answer to AJ’s question was more telling than he might have meant to say!
He said, in case you missed it, was that yes, they needed to improve the minors, like they say they are trying to do. But, then he said, they needed to augment that with some veteran players to help lead and show the young guys the proper way.
Sounded like he was admitting that they didn’t currently have that!

You can buy a LOT of coaches, roving instructors, etc. to teach prospects "the proper way" for the $50, $100, etc. million that you'd dump into "veteran players" expecting them to do so.

And historical examples (Houston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc.) have shown that it typically takes four or five years to do a "deep rebuild" like the one the Cardinals need.

Nobody wants to hear that. But I think it's already in place.

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:18 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

That doesn’t mean we wouldn’t like to see more or at least a serious chase for one. Like someone previously stated, Dewitt chose to abandon the Cardinal Way when he allowed Mo (or maybe ordered him) to fire Shildt.

Your dad and others his age have already seen multiple World Championships.

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 05:42 am

2ninr wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 05:12 am

mattmitchl44 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 04:47 am

Hoosier59 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:58 pm I thought Waino’s answer to AJ’s question was more telling than he might have meant to say!
He said, in case you missed it, was that yes, they needed to improve the minors, like they say they are trying to do. But, then he said, they needed to augment that with some veteran players to help lead and show the young guys the proper way.
Sounded like he was admitting that they didn’t currently have that!

You can buy a LOT of coaches, roving instructors, etc. to teach prospects "the proper way" for the $50, $100, etc. million that you'd dump into "veteran players" expecting them to do so.

And historical examples (Houston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc.) have shown that it typically takes four or five years to do a "deep rebuild" like the one the Cardinals need.

Nobody wants to hear that. But I think it's already in place.

Nobody wants to hear it, but that appears to be what it takes to really do a rebuild right so that it has a lasting effect and makes you really competitive again coming out of it.

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 23:26 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:55 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:43 pm

desertrat23 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:29 pm

hugeCardfan wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:28 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

What a drama queen.

You disagree?

I'm just as disgusted with the Schildt firing as anybody, but, yes, I disagree with the disaster prediction. I think Chaim will work out of it....and we have some of the parts fitting into place. Watch the International moves closely. I'm not falling on my sword.

No pitching in the minors, no power in the minors. JJ and Doyle are not enough to turn this franchise around. There are not enough 3-4-5 starters in the system to round out a rotation with a sub 4.5-5.0 era. There a not a 20+ HR guy outside JJ in the entire system. We are devoid of impact players, and our system has devolved to pumping out 260/320/400 players like Donovan who can not lead a team but are nice pieces to winning franchises.

That's a load of cr@p. There is pitching in the minors; not only Mathews but Ixan Hernandez...among others. Baez and Rainiel Rodriguez both look like they have power to burn. Bernal is a star in the making and will hit 20 + HRs in a couple years. Church is a doubles machine and likely 15-20 HRs.. I'm not writing off Hjerpe, Hence, McGreevy, Chen Wei-Lin, or Roby as starters or bullpen studs. Gastelum may turn into a closer extraordinaire with a world class change up....

Just because you don't know the farm doesn't mean you get to write it off.

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:24 pm

desertrat23 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:19 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:18 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

Your dad and others his age have already seen multiple World Championships.

So they don’t need any more, right?

Want, need, or it would be nice. Big difference

rockondlouie wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:06 am Relief is on the way!

Only 38 more games till C. Bloom takes over.

Bye-bye Mo, better be bye-bye Oli too.

A new regime is moving into the front office but it will take time & money (yes BDWJr has to give Bloom a #14-15 $160+M payroll) before we see positive results.

If Dewitt doesn't do that, then it's going to be a long, long time before we have even a playoff team.

(Enjoy that 1.5+M attendance if you go cheap Dewitt)

HighHeet wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 07:31 am

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:24 pm

desertrat23 wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:19 pm

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:18 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

Your dad and others his age have already seen multiple World Championships.

So they don’t need any more, right?

Want, need, or it would be nice. Big difference

Cranny, I'm nearly 69 yrs old & have seen FIVE WS championships but it's still NEVER enough! And, I expect to see at least one more - Love it!

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:18 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

Your dad and others his age have already seen multiple World Championships.

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:34 am

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:18 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

Your dad and others his age have already seen multiple World Championships.

So what?

Cranny wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:44 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:34 am

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:18 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

Your dad and others his age have already seen multiple World Championships.

So what?

Not as hungry, bomber, as those who haven’t experienced it.

Goldfan wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:52 am

Cranny wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:44 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:34 am

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:18 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

Your dad and others his age have already seen multiple World Championships.

So what?

Not as hungry, bomber, as those who haven’t experienced it.

Is this BDW???
Just think Cranny IF those FO’s and Owners had your current attitude THEN…..you wouldn’t have seen all the WS you clamor about
Beyond selfish of you NOT to want the same Championship drive for future generations. Do you think this current uninspiring deadpanned leadership excites the younger generation like you were inspired in the 60’s…..very foolish and selfish to excuse this type of leadership

desertrat23 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 10:16 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:52 am

Cranny wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:44 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:34 am

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:18 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

Your dad and others his age have already seen multiple World Championships.

So what?

Not as hungry, bomber, as those who haven’t experienced it.

Is this BDW???
Just think Cranny IF those FO’s and Owners had your current attitude THEN…..you wouldn’t have seen all the WS you clamor about
Beyond selfish of you NOT to want the same Championship drive for future generations. Do you think this current uninspiring deadpanned leadership excites the younger generation like you were inspired in the 60’s…..very foolish and selfish to excuse this type of leadership

We’ve been through this before. He doesn’t care. He got his, pull up the ladder, and then tell younger people they’re doing it wrong (i.e. “they don’t like baseball.” The quintessential of a stereotypical Boomer.

Hazelwood72 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 10:31 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 10:16 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:52 am

Cranny wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:44 am

Bomber1 wrote: ↑17 Aug 2025 09:34 am

Cranny wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 22:18 pm

Baseball Dude wrote: ↑16 Aug 2025 21:31 pm And it is deep. This is many years in the making, course correction is too late. There is not a player on the current roster that will be part of the next generation of winning teams. Think 88-94 seasons minus Ozzie.

This team doesn’t know how to work together or pick each other up. That is something that doesn’t come time with time, it starts from the beginning.

We are in for what will be the most volatile 5-7 years in Cardinals history.

This could have been fixed 3-4 years ago, but the last “Cardinals way” manager was run out of town for not agreeing with a GM stuck a decade in the past.

I’m glad I’m young enough to see the next generation of winning, I feel bad for my dad and others that won’t get to see it.

Your dad and others his age have already seen multiple World Championships.

So what?

Not as hungry, bomber, as those who haven’t experienced it.

Is this BDW???
Just think Cranny IF those FO’s and Owners had your current attitude THEN…..you wouldn’t have seen all the WS you clamor about
Beyond selfish of you NOT to want the same Championship drive for future generations. Do you think this current uninspiring deadpanned leadership excites the younger generation like you were inspired in the 60’s…..very foolish and selfish to excuse this type of leadership

We’ve been through this before. He doesn’t care. He got his, pull up the ladder, and then tell younger people they’re doing it wrong (i.e. “they don’t like baseball.” The quintessential of a stereotypical Boomer.

I think if you look at most of the responses on Cards Talk, MOST of us Boomers (I’m 71) are NOT satisfied with the current management of this team, and we want to see this team much more competitive. Whether it’s with kids from the minors or intelligent trades for quality veterans, or a combination of both.

Personally, I have zero interest in “watching the kids come up” from the minors and fall flat on their face because they weren’t coached properly or didn’t have the talent that this pathetic organization kept hyping.

So now, you have the opinion of THIS old boomer. And get off my lawn, kid!