Could we see a "Whitey 12/1980" roster makeover?

[rockondlouie]

In December 1980, Whitey Herzog, then the St. Louis Cardinals' general manager and manager, orchestrated a blockbuster 11-player trade with the San Diego Padres. This trade, which involved sending Terry Kennedy, John Littlefield, Al Olmsted, Mike Phillips, Kim Seaman, Steve Swisher, and John Urrea to the Padres, brought Rollie Fingers, Bob Shirley, Gene Tenace, and Bob Geren to St. Louis. This was just the beginning of a series of trades that reshaped the Cardinals roster and set them on a path to success in the 1980s.

Herzog continued to make moves, including trading Fingers, Ted Simmons, and Pete Vuckovich to the Brewers, and acquiring Bruce Sutter from the Cubs.

These trades, along with the signing of Darrell Porter, were instrumental in transforming the Cardinals into a dominant force in the 1980s, culminating in a World Series victory in 1982. -AI Google



I'm beginning to wonder if C. Bloom hasn't already been reaching out to POBO/GM's all around MLB and gauging interest in Donny, Burleson & Noot who were rumored to have received some interest but also in Gorman, Walker, Winn, multiple catchers and several pitchers?

Perhaps that's why none of them were dealt last week?

Did Bloom want to keep his trade chips for the Winter meetings?

Remember this is a fresh start coming and Bloom has no ties whatsover to any of these "Mo" players, he most likely wants to re-shape the roster with "his" type of players players.

Could we see a "Whitey - 1980" like Winter where Bloom deals away many of these current Cardinals?

If Bloom feels the team needs a complete makeover, then I'm starting to think we could.

Could be a really exciting Winter Meetings, can't wait to see what Bloom has planned!

man, I hated seeing Kennedy, Simmons, Vuk, Fingers all traded, and was NOT a fan of Porters

Signing the prodigious drug abuser Porter and giving him the largest free agent contract in Cardinals history when Simmons, top catching prospect Kennedy and Jody Davis were in the organization was sheer insanity. And trading Simmons, Vukovich and Fingers was nonsense. Fortunately the Cardinals had the most coveted prospect in baseball, Bull Durham, to trade for Sutter who was the key to success. Whitey was vastly overrated as GM, but was without peer as field manager.

"overrated"?

He built a World Series Champion w/those deals from a team that had won nothing for a DECADE.

the trade with the Brewers and signing porter was unnecessary and quite honestly bad. no 2 ways about it

He had his reasons and they WORKED.

Damned right they worked. Herzog wanted to remake the team (younger, faster, defense), and the clubhouse. He had some conflict with Simmons (and others). His deals may look questionable on paper, but his rebuilt team finished with the best record in the NL East but was screwed out of the playoffs. The next year he won the World Series after trading Templeton for Ozzie.

BINGO!

And Whitey said multiple times had the NL had the DH at that time, then he never would've dealt Simba.

Like this squad, those Cardinals teams coming out of the 1970's had a stench of losing on them, Whitey knew he needed to clean house and change the culture.

You don't have to "win" every trade to see improvement and that's what we got in the 1980's thanks in no small part to Whitey's 1980 moves as GM.

I've taken c r a p for saying I'd deal M. Winn this winter if he brought back a controlled #2 starting pitcher.

Sometimes you make moves for the long run and betterment of the team.

That's what Whitey did, that's what I hope Bloom does too.

[Red7]

Lezcano and Sorensen had been very good players in Milwaukee. Lezcano was a power hitting RF with a cannon for an arm. He was just one of the many the Cardinals acquired to fill that role over the years. Sorensen had been a solid 2-3 starter in the Brewers rotation. Green was considered a top prospect and 5-tool guy, brought in the replace Durham. LaPoint, despite his Game 5 gaffe, was a solid contributor. Sorensen would be flipped after ‘81 for Lonnie Smith. Lezcano went to SD in the Ozzie Smith deal (which also brought back Steve Mura to replace Sorensen and eventually, Green and LaPoint would be used to get Jack Clark.

One thing Herzog had going for him, in addition to Busch’s complete trust, is he didn’t have to deal with NTC.

Other key deals swung by Herzog that sometimes flu under the radar: Tony Scott for Andujar. Bob Sykes for McGee. And acquiring setup man, Doug Bair

[butsir01]

LaPoint’s nickname was “Snacks.”

After LaPoint dropped a throw from Hernandez, an error leading to a game-deciding Brewer rally, Herzog quipped: "If it had been a cheeseburger, he'd have caught it."

And, (bleep) it all, Whitey was right!
What a downer to lose that game after Willie’s great game!

[cardiological]

In December 1980, Whitey Herzog, then the St. Louis Cardinals' general manager and manager, orchestrated a blockbuster 11-player trade with the San Diego Padres. This trade, which involved sending Terry Kennedy, John Littlefield, Al Olmsted, Mike Phillips, Kim Seaman, Steve Swisher, and John Urrea to the Padres, brought Rollie Fingers, Bob Shirley, Gene Tenace, and Bob Geren to St. Louis. This was just the beginning of a series of trades that reshaped the Cardinals roster and set them on a path to success in the 1980s.

Herzog continued to make moves, including trading Fingers, Ted Simmons, and Pete Vuckovich to the Brewers, and acquiring Bruce Sutter from the Cubs.

These trades, along with the signing of Darrell Porter, were instrumental in transforming the Cardinals into a dominant force in the 1980s, culminating in a World Series victory in 1982. -AI Google



I'm beginning to wonder if C. Bloom hasn't already been reaching out to POBO/GM's all around MLB and gauging interest in Donny, Burleson & Noot who were rumored to have received some interest but also in Gorman, Walker, Winn, multiple catchers and several pitchers?

Perhaps that's why none of them were dealt last week?

Did Bloom want to keep his trade chips for the Winter meetings?

Remember this is a fresh start coming and Bloom has no ties whatsover to any of these "Mo" players, he most likely wants to re-shape the roster with "his" type of players players.

Could we see a "Whitey - 1980" like Winter where Bloom deals away many of these current Cardinals?

If Bloom feels the team needs a complete makeover, then I'm starting to think we could.

Could be a really exciting Winter Meetings, can't wait to see what Bloom has planned!

man, I hated seeing Kennedy, Simmons, Vuk, Fingers all traded, and was NOT a fan of Porters

Signing the prodigious drug abuser Porter and giving him the largest free agent contract in Cardinals history when Simmons, top catching prospect Kennedy and Jody Davis were in the organization was sheer insanity. And trading Simmons, Vukovich and Fingers was nonsense. Fortunately the Cardinals had the most coveted prospect in baseball, Bull Durham, to trade for Sutter who was the key to success. Whitey was vastly overrated as GM, but was without peer as field manager.

+1 These trades made little sense even looking back at them now.

Whitey was a great field manager, ... except for game 7 of the 1985 World Series. That was on him, not Denkinger.

He did restore Cardinal greatness and legacy. Does anybody remember Vern Rapp?

Spot on. Agree 100%.

[BrockFloodMaris]

LaPoint’s nickname was “Snacks.”

Yep

A little on the pudgy side

With JoJo the only LHRP on the roster, Dave LaPoint might get a look.

[butsir01]

Tony Fossas sez hey.

[ScotchMIrish]

Whitey made some mistakes but he understood what type of team he was building taking into account the dimensions of the ballpark.

I'd put him on par with Torre for understanding the game and what it took to win.

[RamFan08NY]

The days of those big blockbuster players for players are like the dinosaur. Just dont exist. Teams are too focused on salary reduction, and cost controlled players. The NFL is now more exciting regarding trades. Its too bad, because fans, including myself, live big makeover trades involving multiple players. Sometimes they work (Templton/Smith), sometimes they dont (Pena/VanSlyke).

[Bomber1]

In December 1980, Whitey Herzog, then the St. Louis Cardinals' general manager and manager, orchestrated a blockbuster 11-player trade with the San Diego Padres. This trade, which involved sending Terry Kennedy, John Littlefield, Al Olmsted, Mike Phillips, Kim Seaman, Steve Swisher, and John Urrea to the Padres, brought Rollie Fingers, Bob Shirley, Gene Tenace, and Bob Geren to St. Louis. This was just the beginning of a series of trades that reshaped the Cardinals roster and set them on a path to success in the 1980s.

Herzog continued to make moves, including trading Fingers, Ted Simmons, and Pete Vuckovich to the Brewers, and acquiring Bruce Sutter from the Cubs.

These trades, along with the signing of Darrell Porter, were instrumental in transforming the Cardinals into a dominant force in the 1980s, culminating in a World Series victory in 1982. -AI Google



I'm beginning to wonder if C. Bloom hasn't already been reaching out to POBO/GM's all around MLB and gauging interest in Donny, Burleson & Noot who were rumored to have received some interest but also in Gorman, Walker, Winn, multiple catchers and several pitchers?

Perhaps that's why none of them were dealt last week?

Did Bloom want to keep his trade chips for the Winter meetings?

Remember this is a fresh start coming and Bloom has no ties whatsover to any of these "Mo" players, he most likely wants to re-shape the roster with "his" type of players players.

Could we see a "Whitey - 1980" like Winter where Bloom deals away many of these current Cardinals?

If Bloom feels the team needs a complete makeover, then I'm starting to think we could.


Could be a really exciting Winter Meetings, can't wait to see what Bloom has planned!

High Em is no Whitey

Doesn't have to be to be an improvement over Mo.

I think we will all find out very soon that Mo was/is not the problem

Complete disagree.

But we shall see.

[Bomber1]

But he did bring us Tony Scott and Roger Freed.

I remember Scott was gonna be the next McBride.. turned out to be more Victor Scott

Yeah but Scott got us Andujar so Youneverknow!

[rockondlouie]

LaPoint’s nickname was “Snacks.”

Yep

A little on the pudgy side

With JoJo the only LHRP on the roster, Dave LaPoint might get a look.

[Red7]

But he did bring us Tony Scott and Roger Freed.

I remember Scott was gonna be the next McBride.. turned out to be more Victor Scott

Yeah but Scott got us Andujar so Youneverknow!

Actually, both were acquired, and Freed was gone, before Whitey was even hired.

[Red Bird Classic]

In December 1980, Whitey Herzog, then the St. Louis Cardinals' general manager and manager, orchestrated a blockbuster 11-player trade with the San Diego Padres. This trade, which involved sending Terry Kennedy, John Littlefield, Al Olmsted, Mike Phillips, Kim Seaman, Steve Swisher, and John Urrea to the Padres, brought Rollie Fingers, Bob Shirley, Gene Tenace, and Bob Geren to St. Louis. This was just the beginning of a series of trades that reshaped the Cardinals roster and set them on a path to success in the 1980s.

Herzog continued to make moves, including trading Fingers, Ted Simmons, and Pete Vuckovich to the Brewers, and acquiring Bruce Sutter from the Cubs.

These trades, along with the signing of Darrell Porter, were instrumental in transforming the Cardinals into a dominant force in the 1980s, culminating in a World Series victory in 1982. -AI Google



I'm beginning to wonder if C. Bloom hasn't already been reaching out to POBO/GM's all around MLB and gauging interest in Donny, Burleson & Noot who were rumored to have received some interest but also in Gorman, Walker, Winn, multiple catchers and several pitchers?

Perhaps that's why none of them were dealt last week?

Did Bloom want to keep his trade chips for the Winter meetings?

Remember this is a fresh start coming and Bloom has no ties whatsover to any of these "Mo" players, he most likely wants to re-shape the roster with "his" type of players players.

Could we see a "Whitey - 1980" like Winter where Bloom deals away many of these current Cardinals?

If Bloom feels the team needs a complete makeover, then I'm starting to think we could.


Could be a really exciting Winter Meetings, can't wait to see what Bloom has planned!

High Em is no Whitey

Doesn't have to be to be an improvement over Mo.

I think we will all find out very soon that Mo was/is not the problem

This!

The problem is DeWitt.

[tbird0728]

In December 1980, Whitey Herzog, then the St. Louis Cardinals' general manager and manager, orchestrated a blockbuster 11-player trade with the San Diego Padres. This trade, which involved sending Terry Kennedy, John Littlefield, Al Olmsted, Mike Phillips, Kim Seaman, Steve Swisher, and John Urrea to the Padres, brought Rollie Fingers, Bob Shirley, Gene Tenace, and Bob Geren to St. Louis. This was just the beginning of a series of trades that reshaped the Cardinals roster and set them on a path to success in the 1980s.

Herzog continued to make moves, including trading Fingers, Ted Simmons, and Pete Vuckovich to the Brewers, and acquiring Bruce Sutter from the Cubs.

These trades, along with the signing of Darrell Porter, were instrumental in transforming the Cardinals into a dominant force in the 1980s, culminating in a World Series victory in 1982. -AI Google



I'm beginning to wonder if C. Bloom hasn't already been reaching out to POBO/GM's all around MLB and gauging interest in Donny, Burleson & Noot who were rumored to have received some interest but also in Gorman, Walker, Winn, multiple catchers and several pitchers?

Perhaps that's why none of them were dealt last week?

Did Bloom want to keep his trade chips for the Winter meetings?

Remember this is a fresh start coming and Bloom has no ties whatsover to any of these "Mo" players, he most likely wants to re-shape the roster with "his" type of players players.

Could we see a "Whitey - 1980" like Winter where Bloom deals away many of these current Cardinals?

If Bloom feels the team needs a complete makeover, then I'm starting to think we could.

Could be a really exciting Winter Meetings, can't wait to see what Bloom has planned!

man, I hated seeing Kennedy, Simmons, Vuk, Fingers all traded, and was NOT a fan of Porters

Hated to see Simmons traded also. He was my favorite Cardinal for years and I really disliked Porter.

[timoevans]

Do we have any players that we could use in a big 11 player trade? Do we have anyone that we can trade for anything?

[rockondlouie]

Do we have any players that we could use in a big 11 player trade? Do we have anyone that we can trade for anything?

Winn
Donovan
Burleson
Noot
Walker
Gorman
Pallante
JoJo

Catchers in the minor league system