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desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:50 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:49 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

Absolutely correct.
MLB does not understand their product nor their market.

Go on — what’s their market?

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:49 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:22 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:09 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

“Gimmicks” like this are great if it gets new and younger people to watch. Think the NHL outdoor games. They’re overexposed now, but when they started everyone loved them.

The NHL playing out of doors in the winter time is akin to how the game started - outside on frozen ponds. The game of baseball was never intended to be played on race tracks.

They’re not playing on a race track. They’re playing on a field set up in the infield of the race track. It’s something different and fun. Expand your horizons.

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:09 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

“Gimmicks” like this are great if it gets new and younger people to watch. Think the NHL outdoor games. They’re overexposed now, but when they started everyone loved them.

ramfandan wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:15 am Interesting that some complain poor marketing by MLB yet 85,000 people were motivated to buy tickets to attend the game.

One could argue it was brilliant marketing to sell that many tickets .
Last night, WWE sold over 53,000 tickets to their outdoor pro wrestling show. WWE can market their product too,

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:13 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:50 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:49 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

Absolutely correct.
MLB does not understand their product nor their market.

Go on — what’s their market?

It is distinct from all other sports in multiple ways.
It' is iconic.
It is America's past time.
It is summertime at the ballpark - with a dog and a brew.
It is traditional rivalries.
It is winning a road series to get into the playoffs.
It is Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Musial, Koufax, and Jackie.
It is Kirby in Minnesota, Tony in San Diego, Randy in Seattle, Hammerin' Hank in Atlanta, Bidson in STL, George in KC.
It is the 27 Yankees, The Gas House Gang, da Bums, the Curse, Harvey's Wallbangers, MV3.
It is Vin, and Harry, and Mel, and Red, and Jack.
It is legging out a triple, stealing second base on a curve ball, a sac fly on a 2-strike count driving in the lead run, striking out the last man with the tying run in scoring position, a walk off homerun.
THAT is the market.
THAT is the product.
It is NOT playing an exhibition game on a racetrack.

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:13 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:50 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:49 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

Absolutely correct.
MLB does not understand their product nor their market.

Go on — what’s their market?

It is distinct from all other sports in multiple ways.
It' is iconic.
It is America's past time.
It is summertime at the ballpark - with a dog and a brew.
It is traditional rivalries.
It is winning a road series to get into the playoffs.
It is Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Musial, Koufax, and Jackie.
It is Kirby in Minnesota, Tony in San Diego, Randy in Seattle, Hammerin' Hank in Atlanta, Bidson in STL, George in KC.
It is the 27 Yankees, The Gas House Gang, da Bums, the Curse, Harvey's Wallbangers, MV3.
It is Vin, and Harry, and Mel, and Red, and Jack.
It is legging out a triple, stealing second base on a curve ball, a sac fly on a 2-strike count driving in the lead run, striking out the last man with the tying run in scoring position, a walk off homerun.
THAT is the market.
THAT is the product.
It is NOT playing an exhibition game on a racetrack.

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:22 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:15 am Interesting that some complain poor marketing by MLB yet 85,000 people were motivated to buy tickets to attend the game.

One could argue it was brilliant marketing to sell that many tickets .
Last night, WWE sold over 53,000 tickets to their outdoor pro wrestling show. WWE can market their product too,

and now it has come to this - comparing Major League Baseball to the phony exhibition that is pro wrestling. GTFOH.

Hazelwood72 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:27 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:13 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:50 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:49 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

Absolutely correct.
MLB does not understand their product nor their market.

Go on — what’s their market?

It is distinct from all other sports in multiple ways.
It' is iconic.
It is America's past time.
It is summertime at the ballpark - with a dog and a brew.
It is traditional rivalries.
It is winning a road series to get into the playoffs.
It is Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Musial, Koufax, and Jackie.
It is Kirby in Minnesota, Tony in San Diego, Randy in Seattle, Hammerin' Hank in Atlanta, Bidson in STL, George in KC.
It is the 27 Yankees, The Gas House Gang, da Bums, the Curse, Harvey's Wallbangers, MV3.
It is Vin, and Harry, and Mel, and Red, and Jack.
It is legging out a triple, stealing second base on a curve ball, a sac fly on a 2-strike count driving in the lead run, striking out the last man with the tying run in scoring position, a walk off homerun.
THAT is the market.
THAT is the product.
It is NOT playing an exhibition game on a racetrack.

100% agree with you! And if you could read your note with a James Earl Jones voice, it would be epic!!!

ramfandan wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:32 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:22 am

ramfandan wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:15 am Interesting that some complain poor marketing by MLB yet 85,000 people were motivated to buy tickets to attend the game.

One could argue it was brilliant marketing to sell that many tickets .
Last night, WWE sold over 53,000 tickets to their outdoor pro wrestling show. WWE can market their product too,

and now it has come to this - comparing Major League Baseball to the phony exhibition that is pro wrestling. GTFOH.

WWE is sports entertainment. Unlike years ago , todays attendees know the match outcomes are predetermined. They attend to be amused. Good guy vs Villain.storyline
The comparison was how two different products can be marketed for entertainment.

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:30 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:13 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:50 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:49 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

Absolutely correct.
MLB does not understand their product nor their market.

Go on — what’s their market?

It is distinct from all other sports in multiple ways.
It' is iconic.
It is America's past time.
It is summertime at the ballpark - with a dog and a brew.
It is traditional rivalries.
It is winning a road series to get into the playoffs.
It is Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Musial, Koufax, and Jackie.
It is Kirby in Minnesota, Tony in San Diego, Randy in Seattle, Hammerin' Hank in Atlanta, Bidson in STL, George in KC.
It is the 27 Yankees, The Gas House Gang, da Bums, the Curse, Harvey's Wallbangers, MV3.
It is Vin, and Harry, and Mel, and Red, and Jack.
It is legging out a triple, stealing second base on a curve ball, a sac fly on a 2-strike count driving in the lead run, striking out the last man with the tying run in scoring position, a walk off homerun.
THAT is the market.
THAT is the product.
It is NOT playing an exhibition game on a racetrack.

None of the people you mentioned still play baseball. All but a couple of them are dead.

If baseball remains that focused on the past it will continue to shrivel into irrelevance and ultimately die. The market must be younger. The product must be new players, new ideas. Not every change is great (ghost runners), but change is a must in order for the game to survive.

Anyone who remembers fondly all the people you mentioned are not the target audience anymore. I only remember fondly about a third of them, and I’m not the target audience anymore. That’s part of life.

Melville wrote: ↑02 Aug 2025 21:01 pm Another completley idiotic marketing stunt by MLB.
Utterly, laughably ridiculous.
Complete insult to the game.
MLB could not be more ignorant of its own product.

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:58 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:30 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:13 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:50 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:49 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

Absolutely correct.
MLB does not understand their product nor their market.

Go on — what’s their market?

It is distinct from all other sports in multiple ways.
It' is iconic.
It is America's past time.
It is summertime at the ballpark - with a dog and a brew.
It is traditional rivalries.
It is winning a road series to get into the playoffs.
It is Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Musial, Koufax, and Jackie.
It is Kirby in Minnesota, Tony in San Diego, Randy in Seattle, Hammerin' Hank in Atlanta, Bidson in STL, George in KC.
It is the 27 Yankees, The Gas House Gang, da Bums, the Curse, Harvey's Wallbangers, MV3.
It is Vin, and Harry, and Mel, and Red, and Jack.
It is legging out a triple, stealing second base on a curve ball, a sac fly on a 2-strike count driving in the lead run, striking out the last man with the tying run in scoring position, a walk off homerun.
THAT is the market.
THAT is the product.
It is NOT playing an exhibition game on a racetrack.

None of the people you mentioned still play baseball. All but a couple of them are dead.

If baseball remains that focused on the past it will continue to shrivel into irrelevance and ultimately die. The market must be younger. The product must be new players, new ideas. Not every change is great (ghost runners), but change is a must in order for the game to survive.

Anyone who remembers fondly all the people you mentioned are not the target audience anymore. I only remember fondly about a third of them, and I’m not the target audience anymore. That’s part of life.

Before I was ten years old, I knew of the history of the game and it's early players - Honus Wagner, Ty Cobb, Cy Young, etc. My father talked about these players, and I read many books and magazine articles. You do not have to be focused on the past, but it is important to recognize the great history and evolution of the game. I consider it sad that you only remember a "third" of the players and legends mentioned in Melville's post.

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 11:20 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:58 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:30 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:13 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:50 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:49 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

Absolutely correct.
MLB does not understand their product nor their market.

Go on — what’s their market?

It is distinct from all other sports in multiple ways.
It' is iconic.
It is America's past time.
It is summertime at the ballpark - with a dog and a brew.
It is traditional rivalries.
It is winning a road series to get into the playoffs.
It is Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Musial, Koufax, and Jackie.
It is Kirby in Minnesota, Tony in San Diego, Randy in Seattle, Hammerin' Hank in Atlanta, Bidson in STL, George in KC.
It is the 27 Yankees, The Gas House Gang, da Bums, the Curse, Harvey's Wallbangers, MV3.
It is Vin, and Harry, and Mel, and Red, and Jack.
It is legging out a triple, stealing second base on a curve ball, a sac fly on a 2-strike count driving in the lead run, striking out the last man with the tying run in scoring position, a walk off homerun.
THAT is the market.
THAT is the product.
It is NOT playing an exhibition game on a racetrack.

None of the people you mentioned still play baseball. All but a couple of them are dead.

If baseball remains that focused on the past it will continue to shrivel into irrelevance and ultimately die. The market must be younger. The product must be new players, new ideas. Not every change is great (ghost runners), but change is a must in order for the game to survive.

Anyone who remembers fondly all the people you mentioned are not the target audience anymore. I only remember fondly about a third of them, and I’m not the target audience anymore. That’s part of life.

Before I was ten years old, I knew of the history of the game and it's early players - Honus Wagner, Ty Cobb, Cy Young, etc. My father talked about these players, and I read many books and magazine articles. You do not have to be focused on the past, but it is important to recognize the great history and evolution of the game. I consider it sad that you only remember a "third" of the players and legends mentioned in Melville's post.

Allow me to clarify: I remember a “third” of those folks firsthand. Like you, I am well-versed in the others through books and magazine articles read before I was 10.

Unlike you (and many others here), I am capable of recognizing that experiences, culture, and the world is different today than it was when I was 10. Kids today consume information through two-minute YouTube clips and social media. And whether or not you think that’s the wrong way to live is irrelevant — it’s what IS. A young baseball fan isn’t going to read a book about Babe Ruth, or watch a documentary about the history of their favorite team. They’re going to watch a YouTube clip of Ohtani and Judge hitting tanks or a countdown of the coolest closer entrances. They have more choices in entertainment, and a more diverse world surrounding them.

To stay relevant baseball has to recognize and honor its past but not live in it. Other sports are doing this well, and some baseball teams are doing the same, with exciting, charismatic players who play with joy and passion. Some of the rule changes work better than others but the intention is admirable — create new fans that will follow the game for decades to come, not cater to those who have only a few years or decades left. Did I like the DH coming to the NL? Heck no. Do I like the ghost runner? Of course not. Do I think many of these City Connect uniforms are gaudy? Of course. But it’s not about ME. I’m always going to love baseball, and I’m always going to love the Cardinals. They’ve got me. To create a sustainable business they’ve got to worry about who comes after me and cater to them.

If baseball feels old, slow, and stuffy it will not survive. And that means they’ve got to honor history but not dwell on it, embrace what’s next and create new traditions.

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 11:33 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 11:20 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:58 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:30 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 10:13 am

desertrat23 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:50 am

Melville wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:49 am

12xu wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 09:01 am

jcgmoi wrote: ↑03 Aug 2025 08:54 am You result players kill me, always certain of the best move after the hand is over.

You say since it rained a lot last night, shame on MLB for even trying to promote the game.

If it had gone off as scheduled it would have been in front of a record crowd and would have been a seasonal highlight for MLB. Didn't work out, too bad, but I didn't hear any complaints from anyone when the game was scheduled about the threat of rain.

Gimmicks like this are not what MLB needs to thrive.

Absolutely correct.
MLB does not understand their product nor their market.

Go on — what’s their market?

It is distinct from all other sports in multiple ways.
It' is iconic.
It is America's past time.
It is summertime at the ballpark - with a dog and a brew.
It is traditional rivalries.
It is winning a road series to get into the playoffs.
It is Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, Mantle, Mays, Musial, Koufax, and Jackie.
It is Kirby in Minnesota, Tony in San Diego, Randy in Seattle, Hammerin' Hank in Atlanta, Bidson in STL, George in KC.
It is the 27 Yankees, The Gas House Gang, da Bums, the Curse, Harvey's Wallbangers, MV3.
It is Vin, and Harry, and Mel, and Red, and Jack.
It is legging out a triple, stealing second base on a curve ball, a sac fly on a 2-strike count driving in the lead run, striking out the last man with the tying run in scoring position, a walk off homerun.
THAT is the market.
THAT is the product.
It is NOT playing an exhibition game on a racetrack.

None of the people you mentioned still play baseball. All but a couple of them are dead.

If baseball remains that focused on the past it will continue to shrivel into irrelevance and ultimately die. The market must be younger. The product must be new players, new ideas. Not every change is great (ghost runners), but change is a must in order for the game to survive.

Anyone who remembers fondly all the people you mentioned are not the target audience anymore. I only remember fondly about a third of them, and I’m not the target audience anymore. That’s part of life.

Before I was ten years old, I knew of the history of the game and it's early players - Honus Wagner, Ty Cobb, Cy Young, etc. My father talked about these players, and I read many books and magazine articles. You do not have to be focused on the past, but it is important to recognize the great history and evolution of the game. I consider it sad that you only remember a "third" of the players and legends mentioned in Melville's post.

Allow me to clarify: I remember a “third” of those folks firsthand. Like you, I am well-versed in the others through books and magazine articles read before I was 10.

Unlike you (and many others here), I am capable of recognizing that experiences, culture, and the world is different today than it was when I was 10. Kids today consume information through two-minute YouTube clips and social media. And whether or not you think that’s the wrong way to live is irrelevant — it’s what IS. A young baseball fan isn’t going to read a book about Babe Ruth, or watch a documentary about the history of their favorite team. They’re going to watch a YouTube clip of Ohtani and Judge hitting tanks or a countdown of the coolest closer entrances. They have more choices in entertainment, and a more diverse world surrounding them.

To stay relevant baseball has to recognize and honor its past but not live in it. Other sports are doing this well, and some baseball teams are doing the same, with exciting, charismatic players who play with joy and passion. Some of the rule changes work better than others but the intention is admirable — create new fans that will follow the game for decades to come, not cater to those who have only a few years or decades left. Did I like the DH coming to the NL? Heck no. Do I like the ghost runner? Of course not. Do I think many of these City Connect uniforms are gaudy? Of course. But it’s not about ME. I’m always going to love baseball, and I’m always going to love the Cardinals. They’ve got me. To create a sustainable business they’ve got to worry about who comes after me and cater to them.

If baseball feels old, slow, and stuffy it will not survive. And that means they’ve got to honor history but not dwell on it, embrace what’s next and create new traditions.

I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree. I have two grandsons who love baseball. One is 21 and played college baseball for 4 years. He follows the game and has read about the history of the game extensively - not so much on books, but online. The other is 18, and he was not much of a baseball player, he only played football and wrestled in high school. However he does follow the game and enjoys it. He does not read many books, but he is familiar with the old players, partly because I have informed him of them.