WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:07 am
Took until page 2 for anyone to mention Quinn Mathews. Are we already writing that guy off in favor of the new shiny toy, Doyle?
I don’t think they are writing him off but I don’t think you can count on him for the rotation next season when he hasn’t been good at Memphis and needs to work on his control. Maybe if he finishes strong this season and lights in spring training you maybe consider it but I think even then he would start at Memphis next season
Fair. But I do recall him being impressive in ST this season and people pushing for him to be in the 2025 rotation. Thankfully, they didn't rush him as he clearly needed more time in the minors.
Doyle needs the same grace/patience. I'd bet Mathews has a far higher likelihood than Doyle to make the 2026 rotation having that experience, despite his so-so 2025 minor league numbers.
WaltsSuccessor wrote: ↑24 Jul 2025 09:07 am
Took until page 2 for anyone to mention Quinn Mathews. Are we already writing that guy off in favor of the new shiny toy, Doyle?
I don’t think they are writing him off but I don’t think you can count on him for the rotation next season when he hasn’t been good at Memphis and needs to work on his control. Maybe if he finishes strong this season and lights in spring training you maybe consider it but I think even then he would start at Memphis next season
Fair. But I do recall him being impressive in ST this season and people pushing for him to be in the 2025 rotation. Thankfully, they didn't rush him as he clearly needed more time in the minors.
Doyle needs the same grace/patience. I'd bet Mathews has a far higher likelihood than Doyle to make the 2026 rotation having that experience, despite his so-so 2025 minor league numbers.
Mathews hasn't seemed to make much progress this season. The Cardinals probably thought he'd be helping out the rotation by now.
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Knowing Doyle's personality from seeing him at Tenn. , there won't be pressure. The team is in a rebuild and he will probably feel less pressure than he did for the Vols trying to get to the College WS in Omaho . I am not concerned about pressure for him . He will be playing for very revamped Cardinal team. Let him have fun and fire the ball and act 'crazy' out there !
But they still need to add to the top. Gray is not a true #1 and Doyle according to most projects as a #2 unless secondaries develop more. Libertore and McGreevy are bottom of the rotation guys and Pallante is a meh 5-6. Everyone knows injuries will happen and teams need 7SP. Just hope they don’t go after another bottom of the rotation guy and end up with quantity and not quality
Do you really think the cardinals would invest in a top line starter, especially with a major work stoppage on the horizon? No chance
Pretty sure players don’t get paid during a strike, so the concern there is overstated.
It's likely to be a lockout, not a strike. Regardless, of course players don't get paid during a work stoppage. I'll argue it's not overstated, especially considering the owners want a salary cap. Why would the Cardinals invest in a huge contract just before something as financially disruptive as a salary cap gets implemented? They don't even issue big contracts without these big unknown factors. It's just not happening unless they can get someone on a one year deal. I do suspect there will be more one year deals this offseason than normal.
There is a scenario in which the new regime is so savvy that they are able to sign a guy they normally wouldn't be able to sign, because that guy is risk averse, and wants a long-term deal before the stoppage, so the Cardinals are able to get him undervalue. It's highly unlikely, but there is a world in which that could happen if there are players who think the potential salary cap would offer less in overall value. The Cardinals would have to have a really good idea as to what the salary cap number would be.
Last edited by woofy25 on 24 Jul 2025 09:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Still holding out hope Helsley is traded for a high upside prospect pitcher close to the majors.
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Knowing Doyle's personality from seeing him at Tenn. , there won't be pressure. The team is in a rebuild and he will probably feel less pressure than he did for the Vols trying to get to the College WS in Omaho . I am not concerned about pressure for him . He will be playing for very revamped Cardinal team. Let him have fun and fire the ball and act 'crazy' out there !
But they still need to add to the top. Gray is not a true #1 and Doyle according to most projects as a #2 unless secondaries develop more. Libertore and McGreevy are bottom of the rotation guys and Pallante is a meh 5-6. Everyone knows injuries will happen and teams need 7SP. Just hope they don’t go after another bottom of the rotation guy and end up with quantity and not quality
Do you really think the cardinals would invest in a top line starter, especially with a major work stoppage on the horizon? No chance
Pretty sure players don’t get paid during a strike, so the concern there is overstated.
It's likely to be a lockout, not a strike. Regardless, of course players don't get paid during a work stoppage. I'll argue it's not overstated, especially considering the owners want a salary cap. Why would the Cardinals invest in a huge contract just before something as financially disruptive as a salary cap gets implemented? They don't even issue big contracts without these big unknown factors. It's just not happening unless they can get someone on a one year deal. I do suspect there will be more one year deals this offseason than normal.
How does a 1 year deal fix the lack of TOR prospects? Gray has 1 year left and Doyle may fill 1 of them but he’s a rookie and may take time. They need to find another option experienced TOR SP to solidify the rotation
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Still holding out hope Helsley is traded for a high upside prospect pitcher close to the majors.
it would be a misdemeanor, possibly a felony if Mozeliak does not trade Helsley.
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Knowing Doyle's personality from seeing him at Tenn. , there won't be pressure. The team is in a rebuild and he will probably feel less pressure than he did for the Vols trying to get to the College WS in Omaho . I am not concerned about pressure for him . He will be playing for very revamped Cardinal team. Let him have fun and fire the ball and act 'crazy' out there !
But they still need to add to the top. Gray is not a true #1 and Doyle according to most projects as a #2 unless secondaries develop more. Libertore and McGreevy are bottom of the rotation guys and Pallante is a meh 5-6. Everyone knows injuries will happen and teams need 7SP. Just hope they don’t go after another bottom of the rotation guy and end up with quantity and not quality
From what I have read about Doyle is aside from leaving his secondaries over the plate a little too often they are still solid, that he just needs to throw them more, as he had a ton of success with his p*$$ missile of a fastball against college hitters. I’m pretty stoked to see what Bloom and Pierpoints plan is with this kid for developing him. Both have been highly successful in pitcher development and Doyle has the toolbox and the competitive edge to go along with it. I can easily see an Ace in the making
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Knowing Doyle's personality from seeing him at Tenn. , there won't be pressure. The team is in a rebuild and he will probably feel less pressure than he did for the Vols trying to get to the College WS in Omaho . I am not concerned about pressure for him . He will be playing for very revamped Cardinal team. Let him have fun and fire the ball and act 'crazy' out there !
But they still need to add to the top. Gray is not a true #1 and Doyle according to most projects as a #2 unless secondaries develop more. Libertore and McGreevy are bottom of the rotation guys and Pallante is a meh 5-6. Everyone knows injuries will happen and teams need 7SP. Just hope they don’t go after another bottom of the rotation guy and end up with quantity and not quality
Do you really think the cardinals would invest in a top line starter, especially with a major work stoppage on the horizon? No chance
Pretty sure players don’t get paid during a strike, so the concern there is overstated.
It's likely to be a lockout, not a strike. Regardless, of course players don't get paid during a work stoppage. I'll argue it's not overstated, especially considering the owners want a salary cap. Why would the Cardinals invest in a huge contract just before something as financially disruptive as a salary cap gets implemented? They don't even issue big contracts without these big unknown factors. It's just not happening unless they can get someone on a one year deal. I do suspect there will be more one year deals this offseason than normal.
How does a 1 year deal fix the lack of TOR prospects? Gray has 1 year left and Doyle may fill 1 of them but he’s a rookie and may take time. They need to find another option experienced TOR SP to solidify the rotation
In the original post I responded to, you listed Cease, Valdez, and Gallen as fits for the rotation. Now, you're talking about a lack of TOR prospects. Those guys are not prospects, so you're talking about two different things.
I'm referring to Gallen/Cease/Valdez. My first point is that the Cardinals are just not going make a long-term deal for a TOR starter a year before a major work stoppage. My second point is that it's possible there are more 1yr deals signed than usual this offseason, and that it's plausible the Cardinals participate in that market.
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Knowing Doyle's personality from seeing him at Tenn. , there won't be pressure. The team is in a rebuild and he will probably feel less pressure than he did for the Vols trying to get to the College WS in Omaho . I am not concerned about pressure for him . He will be playing for very revamped Cardinal team. Let him have fun and fire the ball and act 'crazy' out there !
But they still need to add to the top. Gray is not a true #1 and Doyle according to most projects as a #2 unless secondaries develop more. Libertore and McGreevy are bottom of the rotation guys and Pallante is a meh 5-6. Everyone knows injuries will happen and teams need 7SP. Just hope they don’t go after another bottom of the rotation guy and end up with quantity and not quality
Do you really think the cardinals would invest in a top line starter, especially with a major work stoppage on the horizon? No chance
Pretty sure players don’t get paid during a strike, so the concern there is overstated.
It's likely to be a lockout, not a strike. Regardless, of course players don't get paid during a work stoppage. I'll argue it's not overstated, especially considering the owners want a salary cap. Why would the Cardinals invest in a huge contract just before something as financially disruptive as a salary cap gets implemented? They don't even issue big contracts without these big unknown factors. It's just not happening unless they can get someone on a one year deal. I do suspect there will be more one year deals this offseason than normal.
How does a 1 year deal fix the lack of TOR prospects? Gray has 1 year left and Doyle may fill 1 of them but he’s a rookie and may take time. They need to find another option experienced TOR SP to solidify the rotation
In the original post I responded to, you listed Cease, Valdez, and Gallen as fits for the rotation. Now, you're talking about a lack of TOR prospects. Those guys are not prospects, so you're talking about two different things.
I'm referring to Gallen/Cease/Valdez. My first point is that the Cardinals are just not going make a long-term deal for a TOR starter a year before a major work stoppage. My second point is that it's possible there are more 1yr deals signed than usual this offseason, and that it's plausible the Cardinals participate in that market.
My post is about fixing the rotation. It’s a mess and if they had a internal fix Pallante Mikolas and Fedde would not have been used
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Knowing Doyle's personality from seeing him at Tenn. , there won't be pressure. The team is in a rebuild and he will probably feel less pressure than he did for the Vols trying to get to the College WS in Omaho . I am not concerned about pressure for him . He will be playing for very revamped Cardinal team. Let him have fun and fire the ball and act 'crazy' out there !
But they still need to add to the top. Gray is not a true #1 and Doyle according to most projects as a #2 unless secondaries develop more. Libertore and McGreevy are bottom of the rotation guys and Pallante is a meh 5-6. Everyone knows injuries will happen and teams need 7SP. Just hope they don’t go after another bottom of the rotation guy and end up with quantity and not quality
From what I have read about Doyle is aside from leaving his secondaries over the plate a little too often they are still solid, that he just needs to throw them more, as he had a ton of success with his p*$$ missile of a fastball against college hitters. I’m pretty stoked to see what Bloom and Pierpoints plan is with this kid for developing him. Both have been highly successful in pitcher development and Doyle has the toolbox and the competitive edge to go along with it. I can easily see an Ace in the making
The draft experts had him as a #2. Either way that still leaves a need for another pitcher of that quality
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Erick Fedde has a better chance of being in the rotation next year than Doyle.
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Erick Fedde has a better chance of being in the rotation next year than Doyle.
Maybe to open the year, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see Doyle in the rotation by the end of the year. Certainly has a better shot than Fedde.
Gallen Valdez and Cease are available. Which one would you want? Is there another SP that fits? IMO needs to be a 1 or a 2 if they truly want to compete. Don’t put so much pressure on Doyle as a rookie
Erick Fedde has a better chance of being in the rotation next year than Doyle.
Maybe to open the year, but I wouldn’t be shocked to see Doyle in the rotation by the end of the year. Certainly has a better shot than Fedde.
Ok then they need 1 top of the rotation SP and another middle of the rotation starter. Gray Libertore and McGreevy in other 3 spots
